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Young players who lack vision and hockey IQ

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Old
12-11-2012, 07:22 PM
  #51
KingBogo
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Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
How's Bogosian's IQ?
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Originally Posted by Stansfield View Post
Not great. He's like Jovanovski was; a great athlete with excellent physical tools and a questionable hockey IQ.
You guys should actually watch the kid play. You are right about him that he is a great athlete with excellent physical tools, but as a 21 year old last season it became pretty clear he would one day be the Jets best d-man ahead of Enstrom and Buff. Yes he has the hockey IQ to go with his elite skills to one day be a true # 1 defenseman.

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Old
12-11-2012, 07:58 PM
  #52
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Dion Phaneuf. It's like someone put the brian of a moose inside of a human body.
The "young" part of the title probably explains why you and I are the only ones who voted for him...

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Old
12-11-2012, 08:04 PM
  #53
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Vision and Hockey IQ are not the exact same thing to me. Maybe semantics for some others.

Vision is how you see the ice to make a play when you've got the puck on your stick, basically determining how good of a playmaker you are. It's a small part of your hockey IQ. With hockey IQ I see a couple more things come into play. Is the player doing the right play whether it is joining the rush, making a pinch, or setting himself free from the opponent. Also being able to handle pressure situations.

For many players they go hand in hand, but some guys(especially defensemen) are good decision makers but not as good when it comes to vision.

As an example Zibanejad to me has pretty good hockey IQ, he's a smart player, but his vision isn't great.

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12-11-2012, 08:04 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Yashintangibles View Post
Evander Kane
Evander Kane X100

The fact that he scored 30 goals last year is stunning to me. If he ever added some hockey sense to his game he would score 50

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12-11-2012, 08:05 PM
  #55
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Thread screams Taylor Hall & David Booth.
No, it really doesn't.

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Old
12-11-2012, 08:07 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
Evander Kane X100

The fact that he scored 30 goals last year is stunning to me. If he ever added some hockey sense to his game he would score 50
I dont watch too many Jets games, but that may be because he was aloud to rush the puck without having to play a defensive game ?

Also Luke Schenn lacks IQ. But its weird because in his rookie season his IQ was okay, but after that it just kept declining

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12-11-2012, 08:09 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
You guys should actually watch the kid play. You are right about him that he is a great athlete with excellent physical tools, but as a 21 year old last season it became pretty clear he would one day be the Jets best d-man ahead of Enstrom and Buff. Yes he has the hockey IQ to go with his elite skills to one day be a true # 1 defenseman.
I think its a matter of people knowing a player based on earlier reputation. Zach was our best D man last year and had very few bad decisions. He has great IQ and vision.

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Old
12-11-2012, 08:21 PM
  #58
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Not sure if he qualifies as young (27), but David Clarkson.

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Old
12-11-2012, 08:27 PM
  #59
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I think good coaches will incorporate elite players into their systems (especially on the powerplay since it's more of a set-piece). For example, the Oilers often set up RNH on the right half-wall and position the other players to take advantage of his vision / hockey IQ (he's basically got 5 options at any time instead of the standard 2-3).
Still waiting for Dubnyk to score a goal

Anyway, there are lots of mediocre NHLers who don't have a strong hockey IQ. But I'm more interested in players who succeeded despite that. To me examples of those players are Hall, Duchene, Evander Kane, Tyler Myers to an extent, Chris Stewart, etc.

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Old
12-11-2012, 08:30 PM
  #60
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no hes just a puck hog.
which means what?
that he has low hockey IQ and doesn't know how to use his team mates.

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Old
12-11-2012, 09:24 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by typicryptic View Post
Still waiting for Dubnyk to score a goal

Anyway, there are lots of mediocre NHLers who don't have a strong hockey IQ. But I'm more interested in players who succeeded despite that. To me examples of those players are Hall, Duchene, Evander Kane, Tyler Myers to an extent, Chris Stewart, etc.
Players with low IQ are very effective at first until people become aware of them. If you notice among the players you mentioned, some are being less effective as more and more teams figure them out.

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Old
12-11-2012, 09:38 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
You guys should actually watch the kid play. You are right about him that he is a great athlete with excellent physical tools, but as a 21 year old last season it became pretty clear he would one day be the Jets best d-man ahead of Enstrom and Buff. Yes he has the hockey IQ to go with his elite skills to one day be a true # 1 defenseman.
*looks at username*

*looks at user title*

No bias here.

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Old
12-11-2012, 10:04 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by roach9 View Post
Thread screams Taylor Hall & David Booth.
Post screams someone who doesn't watch Edmonton play

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12-11-2012, 10:11 PM
  #64
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People are forgetting a couple of things here IMO.

1st the pace of the game is so much quicker today than it ever has been, the abilities to make plays at top speed has always separated the better (hockey vision or IQ) players from the less talented ones.

In the past, ie the 80's teams played much looser defense and there was much more time and space for elite players, those with IQ and vision to make plays as well.

Vision can't be taught but reaction time can be as evidenced by simulation "games" and techniques.

There are many skilled players today with great vision and IQ, it just is less an advantage than it used to be with less time and space out there.

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Old
12-11-2012, 10:17 PM
  #65
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Boy this is like the opposite of Derek Stepan.

That kid can't skate, can't shoot, has no size, has no strength, sucks on faceoffs, and he's funny looking on top of that.

BUT he sees the game happen before it happens. His vision and IQ are elite and it's keeping him in the league. This stuff goes a long way.

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12-11-2012, 10:18 PM
  #66
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which means what?
that he has low hockey IQ and doesn't know how to use his team mates.
doesn't know how and doesn't want to, are two different things.

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12-11-2012, 10:21 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by The Bored Man View Post
*looks at username*

*looks at user title*

No bias here.
maybe you don't know what BOGO means...

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Old
12-11-2012, 10:24 PM
  #68
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maybe you don't know what BOGO means...
Buy one get one free?

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Old
12-11-2012, 10:35 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Boy this is like the opposite of Derek Stepan.

That kid can't skate, can't shoot, has no size, has no strength, sucks on faceoffs, and he's funny looking on top of that.

BUT he sees the game happen before it happens. His vision and IQ are elite and it's keeping him in the league. This stuff goes a long way.
I agree, however I think his wrist shot is pretty underrated. I've seen him snipe it before. It's just that his slap shot is pretty much non-existant.

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:42 PM
  #70
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Found out pretty quickly this year that you can probably add Tyler Pitlick to the list

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Old
12-12-2012, 01:00 AM
  #71
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On my team it's gotta be John Carlson and to a lesser extent Marcus Johansson.

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Old
12-12-2012, 01:04 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by roach9 View Post
Thread screams Taylor Hall & David Booth.
?????

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Old
12-12-2012, 01:07 AM
  #73
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Buy one get one free?
yup maybe he's a 'peg fan that just happens to enjoy good deals.

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Old
12-12-2012, 01:07 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Mouse21 View Post
which means what?
that he has low hockey IQ and doesn't know how to use his team mates.
Not necessarily. Kesler is a horrible puck hog but definitely knows how to use his linemates when he feels like it. He just has less faith in them most of the time and figures he can do it all himself.

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Old
12-12-2012, 01:10 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Not necessarily. Kesler is a horrible puck hog but definitely knows how to use his linemates when he feels like it. He just has less faith in them most of the time and figures he can do it all himself.
I think the problem with most guys that lack vision, or perhaps a problem that many of them suffer, is exactly this.

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