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Young players who lack vision and hockey IQ

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:59 PM
  #151
Zippy316
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Tedenby.

One of the most skilled, best skaters I've ever seen, but he's so ****ing dumb.

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12-13-2012, 08:02 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by pens17fan View Post
Kris Letang


A little bit of hate.

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12-13-2012, 08:05 PM
  #153
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Chris Stewart 100%. He's got decent speed, good hands, great size, great shot, but the brain of a caveman. The guy knows how to go in a straight line and rip his wicked shot. That's the extent of his offensive creativity.

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12-13-2012, 08:07 PM
  #154
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I don't think that's the case at all. Players with high hockey IQ's are the ones who can anticipate where the play is headed. Not ones who react to what's going on, and then respond accordingly. You think someone like Lidstrom was always in the right place because he let the opponents dictate where he needed to be?
Yeah but no matter what I feel like it's always a 'reaction' to what's going on... knowing where to be and when is a 'reaction' to what is happening on the ice, right? In order to anticipate where a play is headed you have to read and react to what's going on. I just think "hockey IQ" is sort of a blown up thing in the hockey world.

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12-13-2012, 08:14 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post


A little bit of hate.
I think he is the best dman in the league but he has zero offensive hockey iq, can't qp a pp for is life, takes two hours for him to make a decision one what he should do with the puck.
He makes up for that by strength and skating (the best skater in the league in my opinion). He relies to much one is skating to be effective which showed in the playoffs, when he had a lower-body injury and couldn't skate 100%. He is Pittsburgh's defense and transition game. It's a shame he is injured and suspended all the time.

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12-13-2012, 09:40 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pens17fan View Post
I think he is the best dman in the league but he has zero offensive hockey iq, can't qp a pp for is life, takes two hours for him to make a decision one what he should do with the puck.
He makes up for that by strength and skating (the best skater in the league in my opinion). He relies to much one is skating to be effective which showed in the playoffs, when he had a lower-body injury and couldn't skate 100%. He is Pittsburgh's defense and transition game. It's a shame he is injured and suspended all the time.
I hate the Pens but this might be the worst description of a player i've ever seen. The guy IMHO has great hockey IQ. Just because he doesnt move the puck immediately on the PP doesnt mean he lacks vision or IQ, it means his patient and waiting for things to open. I guess if you've never played the game it makes it hard to think the game.

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12-13-2012, 10:42 PM
  #157
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I think we should first define what hockey IQ is. For me it's not the ability to make crazy passes or anything like that, it's consistently making the right decisions. With the puck it's the ability to recognize when you should pass, when you should shoot, when you should hold onto the puck, where you should move with the puck, etc. Without the puck it's recognizing when you have an opportunity to get open for a one timer, when you should draw defenders by going to the net, when you should make yourself available for a safe pass if a team mate is about to get into trouble, when you should stay back so you can contribute defensively when you sense a turnover coming, etc.

Hockey IQ is essentially decision making, and it's a huge part of what makes a player effective. You can have amazing hands, a killer shot, great strength and great speed, but if you consistently make poor decisions you just will not be that effective. I've played with tonnes of highly skilled players who just do not put up points because they consistently make poor decisions. I've also played with plenty of underskilled players, guys with poor skating, meh shots and meh stickhandling, who none the less put up a lot of points because they just see the ice really well and make great decisions on a consistent basis.

With all that being said, some young players (say 18-28) whose hockey IQs lag well behind their skill set would be:

Duchene, Jeff Carter, Erik Johnson, Frattin, JVR, MPS, Gudbranson, Booth, Nino, Stewart, and Setoguchi

Not that they're dumb, their decision making on the ice is just a short coming when compared to their skill sets. I think Hall sort of qualifies, his hockey IQ isn't exactly poor, I'd say it's average or even above average, but his tools/skills otherwise are totally elite. If you were identify one main area that might hold him back from becoming a true superstar, it would be average hockey IQ. He just tends to skate himself into trouble, to go for the hard/flashy play when the simple pass would be better.

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12-14-2012, 09:19 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
I hate the Pens but this might be the worst description of a player i've ever seen. The guy IMHO has great hockey IQ. Just because he doesnt move the puck immediately on the PP doesnt mean he lacks vision or IQ, it means his patient and waiting for things to open. I guess if you've never played the game it makes it hard to think the game.
I have played the game, in fact i have played against and won against several of last years draftees. But when you see him play you notice he does a ton of offensive and defensive mistakes, like being out of position. But 90% of the time he makes up for it with his skating.

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12-14-2012, 09:20 AM
  #159
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I'd agree with Ponder.

Hockey IQ for me is reading the play, anticipating the play, getting in the right position, making the right decision, having vision to make some unexpected passes or plays, and doing all of that at NHL speed.

For me the biggest indicator of hockey IQ is the ability to adapt quickly to higher levels of competition. So putting up big points in the CHL at age 16, in NCAA hockey at 18, in the AHL at 20, and in the best players putting up big points in the NHL at 18 or 19. That shows you quickly learn and adapt (kind of the traditional definition of intelligence).

You look at probably the smartest player in the history of hockey, Gretzky, and he demonstrated that by dominating the competition as a kid who was several years younger than everyone else. Look at Crosby, who put up 2+ PPG as a 16 year old in juniors and then over PPG in the NHL at 18.


There's a couple traits I think of with players who have limited hockey IQ:

1. Takes several years to put up points in a given league. We see this a lot with kids who dominate juniors as 19- or 20-year-olds or guys who put up points in the AHL in their 3rd or 4th year. Or guys who make the NHL and several years later finally start to score. They eventually figure it out and put it together, but if it takes that long, clearly you're not the quickest hockey mind.

2. Guys who have close to or above 1:1 goals to assists ratio. These types of players might create scoring chances for themselves and clearly have the tools and talent to score goals, but they aren't necessarily making their teammates better, which is a trait of high hockey IQ players.


With his examples, Devin Setoguchi is definitely one of the players I'd agree with, having watched him with the Wild this season. His G:A ratio is over 1.0 for his career and didn't really break out in juniors for a couple years. He's clearly more a shooter and goal scorer than he is a playmaker, which isn't a bad thing at all (especially on the Wild). But he tends to "play on an island" and not really make his linemates better.

Cal Clutterbuck is another player like this. Granted he was never going to be a scorer, but he "broke out" in his third year of juniors and has far more goals than assists. He's a good skater, plays 110% every shift, and has a really good shot but clearly not the mindset of a high IQ NHL player.


My fiddy cents at least.

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01-02-2014, 04:44 PM
  #160
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Some of the names mentioned I do not agree with..

When I think of bad vision/hockey Iq I think Phaneuf/Clarkson

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01-02-2014, 05:16 PM
  #161
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to me its easy..taylor hall...the kid has special tools...just lack hockey iq to bring it to the next lvl..and by next lvl i mean crosby lvl.

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01-02-2014, 05:19 PM
  #162
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Zack Kassian. The guy is a caveman with 0 hockey IQ.

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01-02-2014, 05:19 PM
  #163
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In this thread: young player with over a ppg two years running, top five in points for a left winger two years running, top 20 overall in points so far, top 10 in points last year.....lacks vision and hockey IQ.


Last edited by PWJunior: 01-02-2014 at 06:45 PM.
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01-02-2014, 05:20 PM
  #164
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So many Duchene posts from 2012 along with EJ. EJ has gotten much smarter, and Duchene has too over the lockout year, offseason, and now more than ever this year. Great to see!

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01-02-2014, 05:33 PM
  #165
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01-02-2014, 06:50 PM
  #166
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A lot of players mentioned here are simply elite skilled players without elite vision/smarts. Doesn't mean they're dumb.

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01-02-2014, 06:56 PM
  #167
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Jamie Mcginn and Setoguchi. DW was smart getting those guys out, though the return was still complete horse**** for Ginner. He played really inspired, outstanding hockey for a few months for the Avs, maybe he just needs to get traded more often.

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01-02-2014, 06:57 PM
  #168
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01-02-2014, 06:58 PM
  #169
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01-02-2014, 06:58 PM
  #170
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The player that comes to mind fastest is Taylor Hall.

It might be too early to count him but I'd also say Matt Dumba.

It's sort of funny that they're also both kind of dumb looking.

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01-02-2014, 07:14 PM
  #171
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Matt Duchene is another guy with great tools but no tool box.
We'll take that dummy off your hands!

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01-02-2014, 07:16 PM
  #172
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01-02-2014, 07:20 PM
  #173
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We all know now that Bobby Ryan is an idiot.

That idiot Kadri can't make a proper line change.

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01-02-2014, 07:23 PM
  #174
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Ovechkin for sure. The guy is basically Jason Blake with elite physical tools. Add half a foot and 50 lbs to Blake's frame and give him a harder, more accurate shot, with a faster release, and he could score 60 goals too. Imagine if Ovechkin had the hockey sense of Patty Kane... I could see him getting 70 goals and 150 points.

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01-02-2014, 07:34 PM
  #175
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From what I've seen since boxing day Dumba..... or maybe its just he's trying to do too much at the WJC. I'm not sure never seen him play this much.

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