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Ossi Vaananen trade value

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Old
02-25-2005, 10:23 PM
  #1
borro
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Ossi Vaananen trade value

It seems there is a question about this guys trade value. Is he better than a Jackman? Is he better than Pitkanen? If he was available in a competitive market, what would your best offer be?

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02-25-2005, 10:27 PM
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andora
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personally, i wouldn't trade vaananen for either of those guys either..

being better, i think he's right now, but those other two of course have the potential to become better in the future.. however ossi's potential is still VERY high.. i mean the guy garnered pronger comparisons in his first two years..

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02-25-2005, 11:01 PM
  #3
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What has Ossi done to increase or show true trade value since being in the NHL? At his age, the idea of "potential" is somewhat on the decline unlike prospects who have yet to touch the NHL or rookies. If it was between Ossi and Joni, I would choose Joni easily. The difference isn't that great but Joni has shown a ton more offense. The times I've seen Ossi he has never stood out. He has never looked out of place but he never stands out as a player making a big impact. For a Flames comparison, he is like Lydman in a similar nature. He doesn't stand out but quietly gets the job done. WIll he ever be a #1-2 defenseman, I don't think so. Jackman's defensive game is just as good if not better right now and most likely keep getting better.

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02-25-2005, 11:32 PM
  #4
borro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
What has Ossi done to increase or show true trade value since being in the NHL? At his age, the idea of "potential" is somewhat on the decline unlike prospects who have yet to touch the NHL or rookies. If it was between Ossi and Joni, I would choose Joni easily. The difference isn't that great but Joni has shown a ton more offense. The times I've seen Ossi he has never stood out. He has never looked out of place but he never stands out as a player making a big impact. For a Flames comparison, he is like Lydman in a similar nature. He doesn't stand out but quietly gets the job done. WIll he ever be a #1-2 defenseman, I don't think so. Jackman's defensive game is just as good if not better right now and most likely keep getting better.
I think he is a step below Jackman and Pitkanen level. Great player love to have him. Not a superstar.

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02-26-2005, 12:06 AM
  #5
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He is probably a notch or two above Jackman. He is as good as Jackman in every domain, but bigger, more durable, and more proven.

Pitkanen might be a different story, because of his offensive upside. But, personally, I'd take Ossi V. first.

Borro, again, I amazed at your logic. B. Witt is worth an arm and a leg because he is a Capital. But, Ossi V. who is light years better, younger, and bigger doesn't have much trade value.

you are not being very balanced.

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02-26-2005, 12:17 AM
  #6
borro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
He is probably a notch or two above Jackman. He is as good as Jackman in every domain, but bigger, more durable, and more proven.

Pitkanen might be a different story, because of his offensive upside. But, personally, I'd take Ossi V. first.

Borro, again, I amazed at your logic. B. Witt is worth an arm and a leg because he is a Capital. But, Ossi V. who is light years better, younger, and bigger doesn't have much trade value.

you are not being very balanced.
That would not be correct. I said he does not have more value than Ovechkin and Semin. The claim was Vaananen would be taken over any Cap. It is a ludicrous one in my mind...

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02-26-2005, 12:22 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andora
personally, i wouldn't trade vaananen for either of those guys either..

being better, i think he's right now, but those other two of course have the potential to become better in the future.. however ossi's potential is still VERY high.. i mean the guy garnered pronger comparisons in his first two years..

Andora: Ossi Vaananen-You just completed a 30 goal 70 assist campaign, delivered meals on wheels and visited sick kids in the hospital, what are you going to do for an encore?

OV: I'm going to Andoraland

Darth Milbury: I've seen this Vaananen guy and he obviously hasn't reached his potential.

MOEBEAGLE: And another thing Andrew, THE CAPS WONT BE TRADING ANY PLYERS UNTIL THEY SEE THEER VALEWE.

YEESH give it up guys...

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02-26-2005, 12:22 AM
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Andora did not say Ossi V. has more market value. He said he wouldn't trade him for any Capital. That was taking into account his team's needs. The Avs are probably not that far away from challenging for another cup, and moving an important dman for prospect (even one at this level) would not make sense. Frankly, I would expect Pierre Lacroix to share that perspective as well. In other words, if the Caps called and made that offer for Ossi V., I think they'd be rebuked.

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02-26-2005, 12:25 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Andora did not say Ossi V. has more market value. He said he wouldn't trade him for any Capital. That was taking into account his team's needs. The Avs are probably not that far away from challenging for another cup, and moving an important dman for prospect (even one at this level) would not make sense. Frankly, I would expect Pierre Lacroix to share that perspective as well. In other words, if the Caps called and made that offer for Ossi V., I think they'd be rebuked.
I've seen this guy Andora. Andora was a friend of mine, and senator you are no Andora!

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02-26-2005, 02:04 AM
  #10
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IMHO Vaananen was the best 2-way d-man in World Cup this year...

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02-26-2005, 02:32 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Andora did not say Ossi V. has more market value. He said he wouldn't trade him for any Capital. That was taking into account his team's needs. The Avs are probably not that far away from challenging for another cup, and moving an important dman for prospect (even one at this level) would not make sense. Frankly, I would expect Pierre Lacroix to share that perspective as well. In other words, if the Caps called and made that offer for Ossi V., I think they'd be rebuked.
actually, darth, you're almost right on that team needs thing, and when you say it like you did here above, yeah i agree mostly

my actual comment was moreso just in terms, not of team needs, but in my team makeup preferences... i wouldn't trade vaananen (a type of player on defence whom i covet, style and ability and package) for ovechkin (while amazing talent, not the type of player i'd want on a team of mine)

my comment was void of reality, not so much taking into account the real colorado avalanche and market value (which borro is numbing over tonight for some reason).. but with what you say, it's true to an extent as well....

an interesting variable to throw in here... if mcphee say, phones and offers AO for ossi... pierre could quickly say yes, then turn and trade AO for this 'godly' package he's supposedly worth on an open market... go after a dman/forward combo ...

a nice little getzlaf/vichnevski or hamhuis/hartnell or a little bit of gagne/pitkanen or some package like that (now of course i'm going on what most believe AO could go for )

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02-26-2005, 08:01 AM
  #12
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Vaananen was fairly awful last year in Phoenix. While other guys stepped up their play (Tanabe, Mara), Vaananen struggled. He was expected to take a step forward and increase his responsibility as he was thought to be the heir apparent to Teppo Numminin. It didn't happen and instead of becoming a top 2 guy, he struggled to be in Phoenix's top 4 (and we didn't exactly have a great top 4). However, he has always been viewed as a #2 Defensive D man who has good size and hitting. He's not there yet. I would expect his career to follow the path of Numminen without Numminen's periodic scoring outbreaks. Someone once called him a "poor man's Pronger" which set the bar WAY to high. You also have to wonder how bad the nerve damage was when he was hit by that car at the Youngstar's game a few years ago.

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02-26-2005, 10:42 AM
  #13
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Vaananen's value would be something like a Derek Morris. Both sides might have to add players here and there (maybe someone like Chris Gratton?) to even things out to satisfy both team's needs.

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02-26-2005, 10:48 AM
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I'd take Jackman and Pitkanen withot thinking. Though I do hope Vaananen helps us wins cups and becomes the next Ray Bourque so I can sell his autographed puck for a lot of money.

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02-26-2005, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Mayor of MacAppolis
Vaananen's value would be something like a Derek Morris. Both sides might have to add players here and there (maybe someone like Chris Gratton?) to even things out to satisfy both team's needs.
I don't think his value is Morris at all. The only way Ossi value has an edge on Morris is because of Morris's contract. At this time, Morris is the more complete player and his offensive is a ton better than Ossi right now.

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02-26-2005, 03:02 PM
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I'll take Jackman over Ossi.

Pitkanen? Nope.

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02-26-2005, 03:10 PM
  #17
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Wasn't he traded not too long ago? And wouldn't that be a good indication of his trade value?

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02-26-2005, 03:23 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
I don't think his value is Morris at all. The only way Ossi value has an edge on Morris is because of Morris's contract. At this time, Morris is the more complete player and his offensive is a ton better than Ossi right now.
Is this post a bit ironic, or is it just me?

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02-26-2005, 03:53 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
What has Ossi done to increase or show true trade value since being in the NHL? At his age, the idea of "potential" is somewhat on the decline unlike prospects who have yet to touch the NHL or rookies. If it was between Ossi and Joni, I would choose Joni easily. The difference isn't that great but Joni has shown a ton more offense. The times I've seen Ossi he has never stood out. He has never looked out of place but he never stands out as a player making a big impact. For a Flames comparison, he is like Lydman in a similar nature. He doesn't stand out but quietly gets the job done. WIll he ever be a #1-2 defenseman, I don't think so. Jackman's defensive game is just as good if not better right now and most likely keep getting better.
Lydman? Is that comparision only made as far as "getting the job done quietly"? Because they're chalk and cheese really.

Vaananen's strength is his defensive solidity and he is still young enough to keep getting better so that's no argument. He makes a big impact if you pay attention to defensive d-men. A poor man's Adam Foote is probably more accurate.. I havent really understood why some see big offensive upside. 30 points sure.. but he's no #1 but should develop into a good defensive #2.

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02-26-2005, 04:15 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwyddbwyll
Lydman? Is that comparision only made as far as "getting the job done quietly"? Because they're chalk and cheese really.

Vaananen's strength is his defensive solidity and he is still young enough to keep getting better so that's no argument. He makes a big impact if you pay attention to defensive d-men. A poor man's Adam Foote is probably more accurate.. I havent really understood why some see big offensive upside. 30 points sure.. but he's no #1 but should develop into a good defensive #2.
I would not call him a poor man's Adam Foote just yet. If that was the case, teams wouldn't be trading these kind of guys. Right now Regehr is a lesser Adam Foote with upside to come and I don't think Ossi is comparable to Regehr.

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02-26-2005, 04:16 PM
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how come ?

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02-26-2005, 04:29 PM
  #22
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Pitkänen>Väänänen>Jackman

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02-26-2005, 04:39 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by andora
how come ?
Is this comment directed at how come Ossi isn't comprabale to Regehr???

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02-26-2005, 05:57 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
I'll take Jackman over Ossi.

Pitkanen? Nope.

Agreed. I really like Ossi as a player, but I dont see him standing out and being an impact player. A very dependable 2nd pairing guy, which isn't a bad thing at all.

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02-26-2005, 06:51 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chileiceman
I'd take Jackman and Pitkanen withot thinking. Though I do hope Vaananen helps us wins cups and becomes the next Ray Bourque so I can sell his autographed puck for a lot of money.
Agreed. I don't think there is any debate, Jackman as at least on par with Vaananen already and neither of them compare to Pitkanen, who is going to be something special (and he is even arguably close to Vaananen already). Like some people are saying, Ossi Vaananen is a solid, top 4 (possibly top 2 on certain teams) who is not a game-breaking defenseman.

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