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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Could World Championships be best on best?

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Old
12-17-2012, 10:10 AM
  #1
bruinsden
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Could World Championships be best on best?

Not sure if this has been discussed yet, and I wasn't a big follower of international hockey during the last lockout, but is it possible for the World Championships to be a best on best tournament if the lockout isn't resolved, because then no one would be playing in the NHL Playoffs.

Maybe some silver lining?

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12-17-2012, 10:16 AM
  #2
SH15
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I don't see it being best on best as I don't see the players that haven't played all year jumping into to a tournament as high paced as the WHC.

Russia will dominate and win gold again.

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12-17-2012, 10:17 AM
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phillipsj89
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Originally Posted by SH15 View Post
I don't see it being best on best as I don't see the players that haven't played all year jumping into to a tournament as high paced as the WHC.

Russia will dominate and win gold again.
haha, why wouldnt the guys want to play?

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12-17-2012, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by phillipsj89 View Post
haha, why wouldnt the guys want to play?
Its not a top tier tournament and it will never be best on best due to the NHL playoffs..

Guys just don't care that much.

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12-17-2012, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Its not a top tier tournament and it will never be best on best due to the NHL playoffs..

Guys just don't care that much.
No NHL playoffs this year is what this thread is stipulated on.

If the whole season gets locked out I'd be disappointed if it wasn't best on best rosters. There's no good excuse for it not to be.

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12-17-2012, 10:49 AM
  #6
SH15
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Hey I hope it's best on best, I just don't see Canadians who have been sitting all year jumping right into a high level tournament. I know they skate/practice during the lockout, but it's not the same.

I do hope I'm wrong though!

That's why I give a huge edge to Russia again this year. They all went home and played in the highest caliber league possible, and you know they will be salivating for the WHC again. Ovechkin, Datsyuk, Malkin, Kovalchuk amongst others all on top of their game will be unstoppable.

And even if a lot of the top Canadians who have been sitting all year went, they won't be nearly as sharp as those who have been playing in the KHL.

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12-17-2012, 11:02 AM
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The last lockout spawned a WHC tournament where European countries only took players who went to Europe to play during the season. Canada, since most of their players didn't go overseas, was forced to include people who had not played all season. There were still a few top players missing (including the reigning Hart winner St. Louis and the reigning Norris winner Niedermayer) but the rosters still looked much more like an Olympics than a regular World Championship.

To be honest I'd consider it a best-on-best, I mean Patrick Roy skipped an Olympics in 2002 and skipped a Canada Cup in 1991, Lemieux missed a few tournaments as well, and the top 3 Soviet forwards all missed the 1976 Canada Cup, and no one ever says those weren't best on best. Hell, Gretzky almost skipped the 1987 tournament until his dad persuaded him to go for the good of his country. Good thing he changed his mind, too.

Winner was Czech Republic, 3-0 over Canada, Vokoun with the shutout.


Last edited by Hammer Time: 12-17-2012 at 11:09 AM.
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12-17-2012, 12:51 PM
  #8
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Agree with the above comments the teams that have guys playing are going to have a huge advantage. In fact I wouldn't even bring a guy that hasn't suited up this year, remember them talking about this during the last lockout year that a bunch of guys were just flat out bad because they were so rusty and out of game shape.

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12-17-2012, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by phillipsj89 View Post
haha, why wouldnt the guys want to play?
Contractual insecurity?

Our 2005 roster tells me they won't, but who knows?

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12-18-2012, 11:22 AM
  #10
Mr Kanadensisk
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Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
To be honest I'd consider it a best-on-best, I mean Patrick Roy skipped an Olympics in 2002 and skipped a Canada Cup in 1991, Lemieux missed a few tournaments as well, and the top 3 Soviet forwards all missed the 1976 Canada Cup, and no one ever says those weren't best on best. Hell, Gretzky almost skipped the 1987 tournament until his dad persuaded him to go for the good of his country. Good thing he changed his mind, too.
I would put the 2005 WC ahead of any other WC in terms of overall talent, but still well below any of the CCups, WCups or NHL OG.

For example here is a list of the Canadian and US players who played in the 2004 WCup that didn't go to the 2005 WC.

Martin St Louis
Joe Sakic
Brad Richards
Jarome Iginla
Mario Lemieux
Vincent Lecavalier
Chris Pronger
Scott Niedermayer
Rob Blake
Adam Foote
Eric Brewer
Jose Theodore

Tony Amonte
Jason Blake
Craig Conroy
Chris Drury
Scott Gomez
Bill Guerin
Brett Hull
Steve Konowalchuk
Jamie Langenbrunner
Brian Rolston
Bryan Smolinski
Keith Tkachuk
Chris Chelios
Ken Klee
Brian Leetch
Brian Rafalski
Eric Weinrich
Robert Esche

Furthermore I would say these players were better than the replacements Team Canada used in the '05 WC.

Marc Savard
Alex Tanguay
Mark Recchi
Todd Bertuzzi
Eric Lindros
Mike Ribeiro
Danny Briere
Joe Nieuwendyk
Jason Arnott
Michael Ryder
Bryan McCabe
Adrian Aucoin
Brent Sopel
Marc-Andre Bergeron
Patrice Brisebois
Nathan Dempsey
Philippe Boucher
Jay Bouwmeester
Dwayne Roloson

There were also a number of good European players who didn't play in '05. In terms of World Championships '05 was a great year, but not quite good enough to be a "Best on Best".

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12-18-2012, 12:00 PM
  #11
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I wouldn't understand why a player would not want to play at WC. Most if not every league stop during WC. Furthermore most leagues have only about 50 games and usually NHL players play a lot more games.

And it should be an honor to play for your country at a WC but it doesn't seem so. I understand if they weigh a Stanley Cup over a WC but I don't understand it if they don't play in league, aren't injured and still don't want to hold up their flags. So many kids dream about playing for thei national team and never get a chance.

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12-18-2012, 12:33 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by NicoSB View Post
I wouldn't understand why a player would not want to play at WC. Most if not every league stop during WC. Furthermore most leagues have only about 50 games and usually NHL players play a lot more games.

And it should be an honor to play for your country at a WC but it doesn't seem so. I understand if they weigh a Stanley Cup over a WC but I don't understand it if they don't play in league, aren't injured and still don't want to hold up their flags. So many kids dream about playing for thei national team and never get a chance.
I think it is safe to say that North Americans view nationalism a bit differently from Europeans. If it is important to the fans in NA then the players will go. I'm not a big fan of the WC so it doesn't bug me that so many players would rather stay home. After all most of these guys have kids, wives and families they don't see a lot through the NHL season. I have to admit it kind of bugs me when people demand that athletes volunteer their time in order to provide them with entertainment, after all they have lives too.

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12-18-2012, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by NicoSB View Post
I wouldn't understand why a player would not want to play at WC. Most if not every league stop during WC. Furthermore most leagues have only about 50 games and usually NHL players play a lot more games.

And it should be an honor to play for your country at a WC but it doesn't seem so. I understand if they weigh a Stanley Cup over a WC but I don't understand it if they don't play in league, aren't injured and still don't want to hold up their flags. So many kids dream about playing for thei national team and never get a chance.
Most of the top CDN players skip the WHC under the guise of "letting other players get a chance". You can either look at this as a cop out or a truly selfless deed to help those less fortunate.

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12-18-2012, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
Most of the top CDN players skip the WHC under the guise of "letting other players get a chance". You can either look at this as a cop out or a truly selfless deed to help those less fortunate.
Hmm okay that would be a good reason but I'd consider them to be not completely honest


@ Mr Kanadensik
Well, I'm sure WC isn't important for Americans, it isn't in other sports like Basketball as well. But in terms of nationalism I would say it's more important for Americans to be proud of their origin but maybe it's only the image that media give us Europeans.

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12-18-2012, 01:24 PM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_II...onship_rosters

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12-18-2012, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by NicoSB View Post
@ Mr Kanadensik
Well, I'm sure WC isn't important for Americans, it isn't in other sports like Basketball as well. But in terms of nationalism I would say it's more important for Americans to be proud of their origin but maybe it's only the image that media give us Europeans.
Everyone in my family is an EU citizen as well as Canadian so I'm not really basing my opinion on media coverage.


Last edited by stv11: 12-19-2012 at 03:57 AM. Reason: Removed unnecessary part
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12-18-2012, 02:19 PM
  #17
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That is hardly best on best. Only the Slavic nations - Russia, the Czechs and the Slovaks look pretty loaded.

Finland appears to be even worse than what they can usually ice for a WHC.

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12-18-2012, 02:43 PM
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Not quite what the OP is going for, but this year would be the last chance to play the WC before the Olympics. Therefore you probably won't see too many borderline Olympians turn down a chance to participate. For this reason the 2009-rosters were the best since 2005.

It's possible though that Canadian players will care less about being on the roster in Sochi than in Vancouver.

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12-18-2012, 02:48 PM
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I certainly hope it is. Assuming there's no NHL Playoffs around then I'd want to watch the highest level of hockey possible. Besides I want Canada (and potentially Eberle, RNH, Hall) to win a gold.

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12-18-2012, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Its not a top tier tournament and it will never be best on best due to the NHL playoffs..

Guys just don't care that much.
But it has a chance to be top tournament this season becaues all players will be probably available due to lockout, so no NHL playoffs...

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12-18-2012, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
That is hardly best on best. Only the Slavic nations - Russia, the Czechs and the Slovaks look pretty loaded.

Finland appears to be even worse than what they can usually ice for a WHC.
That is true, but all players were available because there were no nhl playoffs. Who prevent Sakic, Iginla, Pronger to join Canada NT for WC ?

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12-18-2012, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikkel View Post
Not quite what the OP is going for, but this year would be the last chance to play the WC before the Olympics. Therefore you probably won't see too many borderline Olympians turn down a chance to participate. For this reason the 2009-rosters were the best since 2005.

It's possible though that Canadian players will care less about being on the roster in Sochi than in Vancouver.
If this is based on Cdn players not playing in the WHC's, thanks for having the thread locked.

I can't imagine any player of any nationality would not want to play in the Olympics.

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12-19-2012, 12:55 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
Everyone in my family is an EU citizen as well as Canadian so I'm not really basing my opinion on media coverage.
Sorry you misunderstood me, perhaps because of my English
Media give us the impression that Americans are more nationalistic than we are.


Last edited by stv11: 12-19-2012 at 03:58 AM. Reason: quoted edited post
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12-19-2012, 01:12 AM
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I mean Patrick Roy skipped an Olympics in 2002 and skipped a Canada Cup in 1991, Lemieux missed a few tournaments as well, and the top 3 Soviet forwards all missed the 1976 Canada Cup
Can throw in USSR missing a lot of players in 1991 due to political turmoil, in fact no one even knew until a week or so before the tournament that they will send a team. 1998 Olympics which Russia won silver in had the following players decline Larionov, Kozlov, Mogilny, Khabibulin, Tverdovsky, Zubov. 2004 World Cup of Hockey had Federov, Zhamnov, Khabibulin, Danny Markov and a few others decline. But I do not even consider the World Cup of Hockey as a legitimate competition. Olympics is true best on best now anyway.

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12-19-2012, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by NicoSB View Post
I wouldn't understand why a player would not want to play at WC. Most if not every league stop during WC. Furthermore most leagues have only about 50 games and usually NHL players play a lot more games.

And it should be an honor to play for your country at a WC but it doesn't seem so. I understand if they weigh a Stanley Cup over a WC but I don't understand it if they don't play in league, aren't injured and still don't want to hold up their flags. So many kids dream about playing for thei national team and never get a chance.
I wish our players did care.

And unfortunately a lot of the few that do (Spezza for example) get thrown under the bus by Hockey Canada, and players that don't (Iginla for example) get pandered

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