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HF Top-20 Prospects Stats Update

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12-12-2012, 04:01 PM
  #1
zeke
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HF Top-20 Prospects Stats Update

The HF top-20 prospects, and what they've done so far this year:

1) W N.Yakupov (19, KHL): 22gms, 10gls, 18pts, -4, 33pim (82gms, 37gls, 67pts, -15, 123pim)
2) W V.Tarasenko (21, KHL): 23gms, 11gls, 25pts, +11, 6pim (82gms, 39gls, 89pts, +39, 21pim)
3) D D.Hamilton (19, CHL): 32gms, 8gls, 41pts, +24, 32pim (82gms, 21gls, 105pts, +62, 82pim)
4) C J.Huberdeau (19, CHL): 30gms, 16gls, 45pts, -1, 48pim (82gms, 44gls, 123pts, -3, 131pim)
5) C M.Zibanejad (19, AHL): 16gms, 1gls, 7pts, -3, 4pim (82gms, 5gls, 36pts, -15, 21pim)
6) W E.Kuznetsov (20, KHL): 32gms, 13gls, 30pts, +3, 22pim (82gms, 33gls, 77pts, +8, 56pim)
7) W J.Schwartz (20, AHL): 23gms, 8gls, 14pts, -14, 10pim (82gms, 29gls, 50pts, -50, 36pim)
8) C A.Galchenyuk (18, CHL): 31gms, 22gls, 53pts, +10, 20pim (82gms, 58gls, 140pts, +27, 53pim)
9) W S.Bartschi (20, AHL): 19gms, 6gls, 17pts, +5, 12pim (82gms, 26gls, 73pts, +22, 52pim)
10) C M.Granlund (20, AHL): 11gms, 4gls, 13pts, +2, 2pim (82gms, 30gls, 97pts, +15, 15pim)
11) W C.Kreider (21, AHL): 22gms, 4gls, 10pts, -3, 41pim (82gms, 15gls, 37pts, -11, 153pim)
12) D R.Murray (19, CHL): 23gms, 2gls, 17pts, +0, 14pim (82gms, 7gls, 61pts, +0, 50pim)
13) C R.Strome (19, CHL): 32gms, 22gls, 62pts, +34, 37pim (82gms, 56gls, 159pts, +87, 95pim)
14) D B.Smith (23, AHL): 22gms, 4gls, 13pts, +4, 31pim (82gms, 15gls, 49pts, +15, 116pim)
15) D B.Gormley (20, AHL): 21gms, 1gls, 7pts, -3, 12pim (82gms, 4gls, 27pts, -12, 47pim)
16) D M.Rielly (18, CHL): 33gms, 7gls, 28pts, +1, 5pim (82gms, 17gls, 70pts, +3, 12pim)
17) C M.Grigorenko (18, CHL): 30gms, 29gls, 50pts, +12, 8pim (82gms, 79gls, 137pts, +33, 22pim)
18) D G.Reinhart (18, CHL): 31gms, 4gls, 14pts, +9, 12pim (82gms, 11gls, 37pts, +24, 32pim)
19) D M.Dumba (18, CHL): 31gms, 7gls, 17pts, -1, 41pim (82gms, 19gls, 45pts, -3, 109pim)
20) G J.Markstrom (22, AHL): 16gms, 8-7-1, 1so, 2.81gaa, .911sv%




Now I thought this list had a few bizarre inclusions from the get go. For the life of me, I couldn't understand how some of these guys made it into a top-20 list in the first place, let alone some of them approaching the top-5. Specifically, the inclusions of Zibanejad, Schwartz, Kreider, and Smith in the top-20 struck me as just wrong - none of them had the tremendous track record, nor a particularly awesome NHL skillset, to back up their being ranked this high, especially ahead of talents like Strome, Grigorenko, or Rielly.

So personally, I'm not too surprised to see these 4 guys dissappointing this year in the AHL.


Anyone else see anything that stands out to them on the list? anyone signficiantly over or under performing their expectations?

has anyone had their opinion of any of these guys permanently changed by their performances over the first few months of the season? or is it too early to make any changes?

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Old
12-12-2012, 05:01 PM
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tyratoku
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
7) W J.Schwartz (20, AHL): 23gms, 8gls, 14pts, -14, 10pim (82gms, 29gls, 50pts, -50, 36pim)

Specifically, the inclusions of Schwartz in the top-20 struck me as just wrong - none of them had the tremendous track record, nor a particularly awesome NHL skillset, to back up their being ranked this high, especially ahead of talents like Strome, Grigorenko, or Rielly.
Alot of us Minnesota fans thought Schwartz' placement on the list was disappointing. For one, him being ranked ahead of Mikael Granlund was a bit of a shock, but most of us also saw Schwartz play a bunch in college. Playing against the Sioux, Goofers, Bulldogs and so on.

I can't speak for everyone, but a good portion of us just don't see a whole lot in him. I haven't caught him much this season, but if the stats are saying anything, it's just not looking all that good. Oh well. I'm a bit surprised at Zib's performance so far this season though. I was not expecting that.

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12-12-2012, 05:13 PM
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Zibanejad and Schwartz are way too high on this list.

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12-12-2012, 05:19 PM
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Zibanejad and Schwartz are way too high on this list.
First thoughts as well.

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12-12-2012, 05:19 PM
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Since when is 13p in 22 games bad for a rugged two-way defenseman who's playing every important situation. HFboard stat watching at its finest.

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12-12-2012, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by tyratoku View Post
Alot of us Minnesota fans thought Schwartz' placement on the list was disappointing. For one, him being ranked ahead of Mikael Granlund was a bit of a shock, but most of us also saw Schwartz play a bunch in college. Playing against the Sioux, Goofers, Bulldogs and so on.

I can't speak for everyone, but a good portion of us just don't see a whole lot in him. I haven't caught him much this season, but if the stats are saying anything, it's just not looking all that good. Oh well. I'm a bit surprised at Zib's performance so far this seas.on though. I was not expecting that.
Blues fan in total agreement. Granlund is IMO more skilled overall and a better skater than Schwartz. Baertschi should definitely have been above him as well, same skill but a much more dangerous skater.

And not to say Schwartz isnt a talented player, he has done nothing but produce at every level. He has started out slow in the AHL, but he could be doing much worse in his first 24 games in a new league than being on pace for 50 points. His output has increased recently too. I think he is going to be a point producer in the NHL, but he certainly his areas of weakness.
1) Defense- Looked overmatched in the NHL last season
2) Skating- Only average considering his size, not super strong on his skates
3) Size- Can he hold up over 82 games?

He needs at least a year or two in the AHL before he can be counted on to be a real contributor on a good team.

Kreider off to a slow start in the A as well.

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12-12-2012, 05:44 PM
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Since when is 13p in 22 games bad for a rugged two-way defenseman who's playing every important situation. HFboard stat watching at its finest.
Bang on

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12-12-2012, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by tyratoku View Post
Alot of us Minnesota fans thought Schwartz' placement on the list was disappointing. For one, him being ranked ahead of Mikael Granlund was a bit of a shock, but most of us also saw Schwartz play a bunch in college. Playing against the Sioux, Goofers, Bulldogs and so on.

I can't speak for everyone, but a good portion of us just don't see a whole lot in him. I haven't caught him much this season, but if the stats are saying anything, it's just not looking all that good. Oh well. I'm a bit surprised at Zib's performance so far this season though. I was not expecting that.
14 points in 23 games on one of the worst AHL teams is pretty good in my opinion. Is he ranked too high? Definitely. But to say its not looking all that good is pretty laughable.

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12-12-2012, 06:22 PM
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14 points in 23 games on one of the worst AHL teams is pretty good in my opinion. Is he ranked too high? Definitely. But to say its not looking all that good is pretty laughable.
Its pretty good for a 20 year old in the AHL in a vacuum. When you consider the Hype and the ranking(which is what this post is about), its not unreasonable to suggest he should be doing better. I never quite understood all the hype personally.

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12-12-2012, 06:26 PM
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I was never really sold on Zibanejad as a super high end prospect, certainly he has potential but I don't know if he's top 20, much less top 10.

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12-12-2012, 06:28 PM
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Strome should be a bit higher imo and Shultz def a top 20 prospect

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12-12-2012, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by tyratoku View Post
Alot of us Minnesota fans thought Schwartz' placement on the list was disappointing. For one, him being ranked ahead of Mikael Granlund was a bit of a shock, but most of us also saw Schwartz play a bunch in college. Playing against the Sioux, Goofers, Bulldogs and so on.

I can't speak for everyone, but a good portion of us just don't see a whole lot in him. I haven't caught him much this season, but if the stats are saying anything, it's just not looking all that good. Oh well. I'm a bit surprised at Zib's performance so far this season though. I was not expecting that.
I don't see much of a terrific player in him either. I was never able to buy into the hype, before and after I've watched him play. I'd put a good number of prospects ahead of him

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12-12-2012, 06:44 PM
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Zibanejad and Schwartz are way too high on this list.
Agreed.

Strome and Huberdeau should be higher.

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12-12-2012, 08:55 PM
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Zibanejad and Kreider are not top 20 prospects IMO.

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12-12-2012, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Since when is 13p in 22 games bad for a rugged two-way defenseman who's playing every important situation. HFboard stat watching at its finest.
For a 23 year old to be named a top-20 prospect in all of hockey, I'd expect clear domination at the AHL level, to be honest. He's 2 years older than anyone else on that list, and 3-5 years older than most of them.

and calling Smith "rugged" is a stretch.

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12-12-2012, 09:07 PM
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HF is weird sometimes. Smith is on pace for 50 points and a decent amount of penalty minutes and that's not good enough, yet every team would love to have a physical, mean guy with the ability to play on the 1st PP unit.

I mean, if you're only going to stat-watch, you might as well take PIM into account too.

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12-12-2012, 09:08 PM
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calling Smith "rugged" is a stretch.
What else would you call a guy who likes to fight and isn't bad at it? Has he somehow avoided being rugged while being a fighter?

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12-12-2012, 09:16 PM
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For a 23 year old to be named a top-20 prospect in all of hockey, I'd expect clear domination at the AHL level, to be honest. He's 2 years older than anyone else on that list, and 3-5 years older than most of them.

and calling Smith "rugged" is a stretch.
Obviously you haven't watched much of Smith. The guy has a mean streak (big hitter, good fighter, and fights almost too much).

Defensemen usually take longer to develop and Smith had the likes of Lidstrom and Kronwall to compete against for a top-four spot in Detroit. Even though Babcock (one of the top coaches in the NHL who's usually stubborn to young players) has stated for the past two years that Smith should be in the NHL, Holland didn't want him playing 3rd pairing minutes.

The ignorance toward Smith is really getting annoying. There are very few offensive defenseman, if any, that have a mean streak like him, hes pretty unique.

I already spent 10 pages arguing this in the Trade Forum so I'll leave it at that. You'll see that he's worth the hype whenever the lockout ends.


Last edited by GoAwayDanCleary: 12-12-2012 at 09:23 PM.
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12-12-2012, 09:17 PM
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What else would you call a guy who likes to fight and isn't bad at it?
Overrated?


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12-12-2012, 09:22 PM
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I don't see much of a terrific player in him either. I was never able to buy into the hype, before and after I've watched him play. I'd put a good number of prospects ahead of him
Quick question, what hype are you talking about?

Hockey's Future is literally the only website I've seen that put Schwartz as high as he is, and to tell you the truth, I think he's still a top prospect in the league. Is he better than guys like Strome or Schultz, maybe not, but I do think he's as good as guys like Kreider. Schwartz does not have the speed that Etem has, or the shot that Yakupov has, or even the physicality of Zibanejad. But he has a higher hockey IQ than most if not all of the others on this list, and I think that alone should make him a top guy.

Sorry if it seems like I'm attacking you, trust me that was not my intent, but I still think it's mystifying that Schwartz should not be considered a top prospect.

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12-12-2012, 09:24 PM
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well, I don't want to fight about it and I don't want to insult your prospect, but the guy is no shutdown defensive physical dman, and to be ranked top-20 based largely on offensive upside, I'd expect a good deal more than 50pt AHL production, especially when he's really too old to be compared to the other guys on this list anyways.

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12-12-2012, 09:32 PM
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I never bought into the Zibanejad or Kreider hype and am not surprised at all that they aren't producing as much as people thought/think they should.
Smith i feel deserves to be in the top 20 and is ranked appropriately IMO even though Wing fans overrate the guy like crazy.
Schwartz i can't speak on as i haven't seen him enough to comment.
One of my main problems with this list is Markstrom, if they were going to put any goalie on this list it should have been Lehner, who IMO is and will be better than Markstrom.

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12-12-2012, 09:36 PM
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well, I don't want to fight about it and I don't want to insult your prospect, but the guy is no shutdown defensive physical dman, and to be ranked top-20 based largely on offensive upside, I'd expect a good deal more than 50pt AHL production, especially when he's really too old to be compared to the other guys on this list anyways.
Yeah, I think everyone agrees he's no shutdown defensive physical defenseman. Physical doesn't mean good defensively, it means he can make big hits and fight a lot.

Smith had an autrocious beginning to the season. He appeared to be playing it safe thinking the lockout would end, but ever since the Wings' brass talked to him he's been the Griffins best player.

The kid has been succesful in every stage of his career, so I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt for a sluggish beginning to the season when he expected to be playing in Detroit full-time.

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12-13-2012, 12:05 AM
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Zibanejad and Kreider stick out for me.

I'm not sure the hype coming out of last year's playoffs surrounding Kreider was warranted. The way poeple were gushing over him, you'd think he was an exciting guy like Yakupov, a #1 overall pick who put up very impressive numbers in the CHL.

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12-13-2012, 12:19 AM
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Zibanejad and Kreider aren't top 20 prospects, IMO. How Zibanejad ranks ahead of Kuznetsov, Galchenyuk, Bartschi, Rielly, Murray, Grigorenko, Strome and Markstrom is beyond me. I also think Smith and Schwartz are too high, but that's a bit more subjective.

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