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HF Top-20 Prospects Stats Update

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:39 AM
  #26
ottawah
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Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
I was never really sold on Zibanejad as a super high end prospect, certainly he has potential but I don't know if he's top 20, much less top 10.
I've got to see him a bit at camps in Ottawa this past summer, and I was convinced at the time he is likely a player who can translate as a solid third line centerman. Good skater, will score a bit and can play shutdown role. To me though thats not anywhere close to a top 20 prospect.

He does a lot of things good, but really is dominant in none. I expected better at the AHL level to be sure, but from all accounts he is playing well, just not scoring. And unfortunately after what I saw this summer, I have to say it does not surprise me.

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:58 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
For a 23 year old to be named a top-20 prospect in all of hockey, I'd expect clear domination at the AHL level, to be honest. He's 2 years older than anyone else on that list, and 3-5 years older than most of them.

and calling Smith "rugged" is a stretch.
This, if Smith is on the list, Barberio should be as well.

Zibanejad is too high on that list

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12-13-2012, 07:44 AM
  #28
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Yeah Z-bad is certainly too high. But it's a list of prospects.. and consider he has the upside and is very raw.. judging him too quickly isnt the best thing to do. I do think he will contribute even if he doesn't hit that upside of his. But then again, some of you are certainly quick to dismiss a player who was one of the rawest players in the draft last year. I'd probably give him a pass this year.. if I we're not seeing any bigger improvement over this season and next... I'd be worried.

Tarasenko is going to be a beast! Havnt seen much of Hamilton.. cant wait untill I see more of him in WJC, looks like a stud.

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:54 AM
  #29
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Am I the only one who finds Dumba very underwhelming?

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:00 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
Am I the only one who finds Dumba very underwhelming?
Seems like any time I hear anything about him it's negative.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:32 AM
  #31
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As of now here's my top 20

1) W V.Tarasenko
2) W N.Yakupov
3) C J.Huberdeau
4) D D.Hamilton
5) C A.Galchenyuk
6) W E.Kuznetsov
7) C M.Granlund
8) D R.Murray
9) W S.Bartschi
10) D J.Schultz
11) C R.Strome
12) D M.Rielly
13) C M.Zibanejad
14) D J.Brodin
15) W C.Kreider
16) D G.Reinhart
17) W J.Schwartz
18) D B.Smith
19) D B.Gormley
20) D O.Klefbom

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:39 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeroknowledge View Post
As of now here's my top 20

1) W V.Tarasenko
2) W N.Yakupov
3) C J.Huberdeau
4) D D.Hamilton
5) C A.Galchenyuk
6) W E.Kuznetsov
7) C M.Granlund
8) D R.Murray
9) W S.Bartschi
10) D J.Schultz
11) C R.Strome
12) D M.Rielly
13) C M.Zibanejad
14) D J.Brodin
15) W C.Kreider
16) D G.Reinhart
17) W J.Schwartz
18) D B.Smith
19) D B.Gormley
20) D O.Klefbom
Rielly too high, not sure he should be on this list at all. Klefbom definitely shouldnt be.

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Old
12-13-2012, 12:02 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
Am I the only one who finds Dumba very underwhelming?
He is probably a bit to high on this list, His upside is definitely there but I think you would find few Wild fans that would have him over Brodin.

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Old
12-13-2012, 12:48 PM
  #34
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Nino Neiderreiter is 9th and Brock Nelson is 26th in AHL scoring, not bad considering Zibanejad, Schwartz and Kreider are on the list

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Old
12-13-2012, 12:54 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Specifically, the inclusions of Zibanejad, Schwartz, Kreider, and Smith in the top-20 struck me as just wrong - none of them had the tremendous track record, nor a particularly awesome NHL skillset, to back up their being ranked this high, especially ahead of talents like Strome, Grigorenko, or Rielly.

So personally, I'm not too surprised to see these 4 guys dissappointing this year in the AHL.
I find it interesting that the four guys who are overrated are playing in a league with men, while the three who are underrated are still playing against boys.

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12-13-2012, 12:59 PM
  #36
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plenty of other prospects playing much better against those "men" than those 4 are, and those 4 never did overly impress when they played against "boys", either.

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12-13-2012, 01:00 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
plenty of other prospects playing much better against those "men" than those 4 are, and those 4 never did overly impress when they played against "boys", either.
Posting this year's stats is a bit misleading IMO.

In any event, in terms of how they are doing in the AHL this year, I don't find it particularly surprising because it can be quite a jump, particularly for players who have spent much of their youth hockey playing overseas.

I suspect that this element was incorporated into their analysis.

Personally I thought Kreider looked pretty good in the NHL playoffs last year and in winning the NCAA championship that same season.

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Old
12-13-2012, 01:01 PM
  #38
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I believe I both laid out their current performance and mentioned their (lack of) track records in the OP.

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12-13-2012, 01:05 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
I believe I both laid out their current performance and mentioned their (lack of) track records in the OP.
Well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke
has anyone had their opinion of any of these guys permanently changed by their performances over the first few months of the season? or is it too early to make any changes?
Too early.

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Old
12-13-2012, 01:14 PM
  #40
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Kreider has always been overrated because he is big and skates well but his hockey IQ is not very high. I think he'll end up a Chad Kilger at the NHL level who kills penalities and acn chip in 10-15 on a 3rd line.

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Old
12-13-2012, 01:14 PM
  #41
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Where is Silfverberg? Is he a prospect? The best player out of Sweden regular season/playoffs in 2011-2012

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Old
12-13-2012, 01:23 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by simplefan View Post
Where is Silfverberg? Is he a prospect? The best player out of Sweden regular season/playoffs in 2011-2012
This is a re-hashing of HF's last rankings. Silvferberg wasnt in the top 20. I dont feel like looking it up but I think he was mid to late 30's. I think they ding him on his age a bit because he is older than alot of these guys and only has one breakout season so to speak.

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Old
12-13-2012, 01:29 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by ThatGuy22 View Post
This is a re-hashing of HF's last rankings. Silvferberg wasnt in the top 20. I dont feel like looking it up but I think he was mid to late 30's. I think they ding him on his age a bit because he is older than alot of these guys and only has one breakout season so to speak.
That one break out season is where he won Reg season and playoff MVP, the championship with the C, and breaking Daniel Alfredssons playoff goal record. I think he deserves to be there instead of Zibby imo.

And for the record Zibby is too high atm, he needs to find his feet in the NA game but who knows, in 2 years from now he could be in the top 5 best players off that list, or the complete opposite.

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Old
12-13-2012, 01:34 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by SilfverFoppaBerg View Post
And for the record Zibby is too high atm, he needs to find his feet in the NA game but who knows, in 2 years from now he could be in the top 5 best players off that list, or the complete opposite.
I don't really have a problem with it, I just find it amusing that anything about a prospect can be so definitive, especially when considering the context of a guy who is playing in the N-A environs for the first time.

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Old
12-13-2012, 01:42 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by SilfverFoppaBerg View Post
That one break out season is where he won Reg season and playoff MVP, the championship with the C, and breaking Daniel Alfredssons playoff goal record. I think he deserves to be there instead of Zibby imo.

And for the record Zibby is too high atm, he needs to find his feet in the NA game but who knows, in 2 years from now he could be in the top 5 best players off that list, or the complete opposite.
No arguments from me, wasn't my ranking. Just my theory as to why he was a bit lower in the ranking. He is a great prospect, but the fact is he is a little older than most. And the past probably does play a part as his two young teammates last year both had higher point totals in their age group than Silfverberg had(ie Larsson and Jarnrock both scored more as 19 year olds than Silfverberg did at 19).

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Old
12-13-2012, 01:42 PM
  #46
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Think you would have to consider Peter Holland, Brock Nelson, Jason Zucker and Nino Neidereiter with the way they are playing in the ahl

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Old
12-13-2012, 01:50 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Specifically, the inclusions of Zibanejad, Schwartz, Kreider, and Smith in the top-20 struck me as just wrong - none of them had the tremendous track record, nor a particularly awesome NHL skillset, to back up their being ranked this high, especially ahead of talents like Strome, Grigorenko, or Rielly.
So what you're saying is that you judge everyone based on stats and track record, except Rielly, because he has neither but, ofcourse, you judge him by a different standard.

Because if we're judging by watching the games, Zibanejad in the WJC and Kreider in the playoffs were way better than anything Rielly has done on the ice, and at a higher level than he has ever played.

In short: these stats have no context and are pointless.

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Old
12-13-2012, 02:00 PM
  #48
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Think you would have to consider Peter Holland, Brock Nelson, Jason Zucker and Nino Neidereiter with the way they are playing in the ahl
I really don't think you do.

It's 20 games, yes 20 games into these prospects seasons. Most of these guys are 19/20, give it some time. Because Zibanejad and Schwartz haven't produced as well as these guys early on, certainly doesn't make the guys you mentioned better. Don't give up on these guys too early.

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Old
12-13-2012, 02:16 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by BruinsBtn View Post
So what you're saying is that you judge everyone based on stats and track record, except Rielly, because he has neither but, ofcourse, you judge him by a different standard.
Actually, as I said, I judge them all on current performance, track record, and skillset. And yes, stats are a part of that (for the record, Rielly has had near PPG production over the past 2 years, 2nd only to Dougie Hamilton amongst CHL dmen, and Dougie is a year older).

Quote:
Because if we're judging by watching the games, Zibanejad in the WJC and Kreider in the playoffs were way better than anything Rielly has done on the ice, and at a higher level than he has ever played..
Yeah, I don't think you've watched the games.

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Old
12-13-2012, 02:17 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by warrior60 View Post
Think you would have to consider Peter Holland, Brock Nelson, Jason Zucker and Nino Neidereiter with the way they are playing in the ahl
if they keep it up I agree, and add a guy like Lehner to that list as well.

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