Alot of us Minnesota fans thought Schwartz' placement on the list was disappointing. For one, him being ranked ahead of Mikael Granlund was a bit of a shock, but most of us also saw Schwartz play a bunch in college. Playing against the Sioux, Goofers, Bulldogs and so on.
I can't speak for everyone, but a good portion of us just don't see a whole lot in him. I haven't caught him much this season, but if the stats are saying anything, it's just not looking all that good. Oh well. I'm a bit surprised at Zib's performance so far this season though. I was not expecting that.
While I agree Granlund should be ahead of Schwartz (top 5 for sure) you can't just judge Schwartz on his stats. Peoria is god awful. He and Hensick are really the only two offensive threats we have. His goal totals are actually ahead of what I was expecting. Where he's getting killed is his assists totals. I mean when you're teammates can't finish, it doesn't matter how good you are. You won't be getting any points.
It's 20 games, yes 20 games into these prospects seasons. Most of these guys are 19/20, give it some time. Because Zibanejad and Schwartz haven't produced as well as these guys early on, certainly doesn't make the guys you mentioned better. Don't give up on these guys too early.
Its goes back to last year in the ncaa where both Zucker and Nelson put up as good or better numbers then Schwartz.
I'm not sure the hype coming out of last year's playoffs surrounding Kreider was warranted. The way poeple were gushing over him, you'd think he was an exciting guy like Yakupov, a #1 overall pick who put up very impressive numbers in the CHL.
It wasnt. The guy put up 1 good(not great) year out of 3 in college, then comes into the NHL playoffs and performs OK(a 32 point pace, albeit a small sample size). People get too blinded by his size and skating ability to actually notice his lack of production for most of his career(over significant sample sizes) since being drafted.
The hype around Kreider... or excitement around him was that he came into the NHL during the playoffs and preformed exceptionally. Combine that with him being 6'3 and flying like the wind people were "wowed" by him.
He may not be able to dangle like a Yakupov, but players of that size who can exhibit great speed is just as attractive as someone who can stick handle well.
Actually, as I said, I judge them all on current performance, track record, and skillset. And yes, stats are a part of that (for the record, Rielly has had near PPG production over the past 2 years, 2nd only to Dougie Hamilton amongst CHL dmen, and Dougie is a year older).
Yeah, I don't think you've watched the games.
Cody Ceci ring a bell? Ryan Murphy? Ryan Sproul?
How about Mathien Brisebois? Konrad Abeltshauer? Xavier Ouellet?
All those CHL defensemen have better PPG than Rielly over the past two seasons.
People here need to keep in mind that the OP is a notorious stat watcher from the leaf board, if your prospect is producing Zeke thinks highly of them no matter how they're playing, if they aren't he thinks less of them no matter how well they may or may not be playing.
The hype around Kreider... or excitement around him was that he came into the NHL during the playoffs and preformed exceptionally. Combine that with him being 6'3 and flying like the wind people were "wowed" by him.
He may not be able to dangle like a Yakupov, but players of that size who can exhibit great speed is just as attractive as someone who can stick handle well.
So he's like Erik Cole and Max Pacioretty. I don't see why that justifies him being ranked so high or praised to the extent he is/was. Heck, I remember during the WJCs how folks were saying that teams should be very afraid of Kreider.
Those of us who've been around the WCHA for a while never really understood the Schwartz steam, especially to the point that HF seems to look at him. As a prospect playing in that league last year, you'd really really have to go out of your way to find someone who would have called him the best pro prospect going in that league, let alone collegiate hockey. Then of course you throw the CC offensive output stigma into the equation. Don't want to trash on the kid too much as I think he is a sound prospect but certainly not at the level that HF is suggesting he is.
As far as being a Wild fan and seeing Dumba in the top 20, I found it absolutely shocking. Granted, given our limited viewings of CHL hockey here in Minnesota I can't really comment a whole lot on him as a pro prospect based on much else of what I seen of him at Dev Camp. But I don't see any reason for him to be included in the top 20, and I'm not even sure he's top 50 worthy at this point; unless your judging prospects based on maximum ceiling (which is a fundamentally flawed way of viewing prospects). At this stage for the Wild, I'd have Granlund, Brodin, Zucker, Coyle, and Larsson all in front of Dumba. And depending on how each individual views goaltending prospects, I could listen to an argument for Hackett (personally, I don't put much credence into any goaltender not yet proven at the NHL level unless they're a generational-type talent).
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I remember Zach Parise had a mediocre ppg in the AHL his first pro yr as well. Kreider will be fine and his physical tools propel him into the upper echelon of prospects.
So he's like Erik Cole and Max Pacioretty. I don't see why that justifies him being ranked so high or praised to the extent he is/was. Heck, I remember during the WJCs how folks were saying that teams should be very afraid of Kreider.
Pretty much. Though, the way he broke in, it was looking as if he'd be better than those two in terms of goal scoring.
I remember Zach Parise had a mediocre ppg in the AHL his first pro yr as well. Kreider will be fine and his physical tools propel him into the upper echelon of prospects.
Except in Parise's two years in college he scored 61 and 55 points in 39 and 37 games respectively. Compared with Kreider's 23, 24, and 45 point seasons in college. Parise actually had a history of producing over a large sample size, somthing Kreider doesnt have at all. And Parise's 20 year old season in the AHL wasnt terrible, with 58 points in 73 games.
There is no comparison at all between the two of them.
Obviously you haven't watched much of Smith. The guy has a mean streak (big hitter, good fighter, and fights almost too much). Defensemen usually take longer to develop and Smith had the likes of Lidstrom and Kronwall to compete against for a top-four spot in Detroit. Even though Babcock (one of the top coaches in the NHL who's usually stubborn to young players) has stated for the past two years that Smith should be in the NHL, Holland didn't want him playing 3rd pairing minutes.
The ignorance toward Smith is really getting annoying. There are very few offensive defenseman, if any, that have a mean streak like him, hes pretty unique.
I already spent 10 pages arguing this in the Trade Forum so I'll leave it at that. You'll see that he's worth the hype whenever the lockout ends.
pls, the guy average like 5 fights a year, how it can be too much
Slightly OT, but I'm not really sure what the point of prorating all their stats over 82 games is. They play in different leagues, and different levels. So it's kind of a waste of a comparison to even bother with.
I mean, if Player X has 50 points in 30 games thus far in junior, and Player Y has 15 points thus far in 30 games in the AHL, comparing those stats doesn't tell you a single thing about where each prospect is compared to one another, let alone bothering to prorate over a 82 game schedule.
I don't know. Just a minor nitpick. I just don't understand the point of prorating or comparing stats for players who are playing in different leagues or levels. Usually the prorating stuff is done when comparing stats of two players who play in the exact same league.
Rielly too high, not sure he should be on this list at all. Klefbom definitely shouldnt be.
Well the only real direct competition he's faced among defensemen on this list is Hamilton, Murray and Reinhart. As of the past few weeks he's shown to be ahead of Reinhart (virtue of being an early lock) by Hockey Canada, so I don't think it's a stretch to see him that high.
Nino is not considerd a prospect anymore because of NHL games played.
It's unfortunate. Assuming he would have had another big season in Portland had he stayed, he'd probably be the 3rd Islander on this list with the way he's played in Bridgeport this year.
Am I the only one who finds Dumba very underwhelming?
I'd not say underwhelming, but I am having trouble imagining how he will play at the NHL level. Over coming size issues can be done, but its more the style he plays. He plays junior like he's 6'3 230, and he cannot do that at the NHL level. He's have to change his game to be more like a Karrlson. I hope he does, seems like a great guy.
Also do not forget he is a very young player compared to others drafted around him due to his Aug B day, for example he's pretty much a year younger than Ryan Murray.
I find it interesting that the four guys who are overrated are playing in a league with men, while the three who are underrated are still playing against boys.
2 of the 3 who are playing against boys are not eligible to play in the AHL, And if not for the lockout, Strome (easily leading OHL in scoring) would likely not be here as well.
I'd make the argument Z now is in his third year playing against men, and cannot seem to find a scoring touch. Playing against competition closer to yourself if the best way to improve .....
2 of the 3 who are playing against boys are not eligible to play in the AHL, And if not for the lockout, Strome (easily leading OHL in scoring) would likely not be here as well.
I'd make the argument Z now is in his third year playing against men, and cannot seem to find a scoring touch. Playing against competition closer to yourself if the best way to improve .....
There was nothing wrong with his 0.5ppg last year in his U19 season(short of Lindholm the best U19 forward this season has 3 points FYI).
But not a great offensive start in the A, I'll give you that. Two big games and people will say he's got tolerable production though, we're down to extremely small samples. I'm not one of his biggest fans, but I'll leave the conclusion jumping to others and watch him play a full season first.
I'd not say underwhelming, but I am having trouble imagining how he will play at the NHL level. Over coming size issues can be done, but its more the style he plays. He plays junior like he's 6'3 230, and he cannot do that at the NHL level. He's have to change his game to be more like a Karrlson. I hope he does, seems like a great guy.
Also do not forget he is a very young player compared to others drafted around him due to his Aug B day, for example he's pretty much a year younger than Ryan Murray.
You could say that about Subban and look how amazing he is right now. Never change the way of a player. We all tought that Subban could never translate his game to the NHL and he did.
Obviously you haven't watched much of Smith. The guy has a mean streak (big hitter, good fighter, and fights almost too much). Defensemen usually take longer to develop and Smith had the likes of Lidstrom and Kronwall to compete against for a top-four spot in Detroit. Even though Babcock (one of the top coaches in the NHL who's usually stubborn to young players) has stated for the past two years that Smith should be in the NHL, Holland didn't want him playing 3rd pairing minutes. 
