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NHL Lockout XXVIII: Don't worry about the lockout. Let me worry about blank.

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Old
12-13-2012, 01:16 AM
  #251
rdawg1234
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Originally Posted by GeneralSwell View Post
There are 10 sports listed on foxsports. NHL is not one of them. You now have to go under "More Sports" to find it. Shows how much the majority cares anymore. And it doesn't surprise me. I know far too many diehard fans that are long past that point. They need to get their collective heads out of their ass before irreparable damage is done.
If they get the season back by january, I wouldnt care about this whole thing, everyone would just be so excited to have it back, it actually may make them a little MORE money cause the hype will be huge(many fans dying to get a game, I know toronto fans specifically, now that the raptors are horrific, last in the NBA)

You lose the season the damage will definitely be done.

People are dying for hockey right now, it's christmas, football is over soon cancel the season and you'll lose that hype and alot of casual fans

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12-13-2012, 01:20 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
If they get the season back by january, I wouldnt care about this whole thing, everyone would just be so excited to have it back, it actually may make them a little MORE money cause the hype will be huge(many fans dying to get a game, I know toronto fans specifically, now that the raptors are horrific, last in the NBA)

You lose the season the damage will definitely be done.

People are dying for hockey right now, it's christmas, football is over soon cancel the season and you'll lose that hype and alot of casual fans
You won't make more money because you've already lost half of a season, and believe me, Toronto fans will come out regardless of the world ending.

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12-13-2012, 01:21 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by alcanalz View Post
You won't make more money because you've already lost half of a season, and believe me, Toronto fans will come out regardless of the world ending.
I probably should've worded that better.

I'm saying people will be even MORE excited for hockey because they took it away from us for the last couple months and will be jumping at the opportunity to go watch a game.

Just look how many people went nuts in the thread last week during those meetings.

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12-13-2012, 01:26 AM
  #254
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NHL not even being listed on Fox Sports website, behind Nascar, NCAA, golf, soccer, and than having to go to more to find it is an absolute joke. Really speaks volumes of how the game is viewed in the States. And even worse, the NHL used to be shown on Fox.

At least they're still on the top at ESPN....

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12-13-2012, 01:32 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
Hmm. Hadn't considered that.

But wouldn't they still stand to get a lot more if the playoffs took place? You know, a larger pie to divvy up? I guess I don't have a clear picture of how the escrow works.
Owners get 50% of all hockey-related revenue; players get 57% - that includes all preseason and playoff games. Losing those games means less revenue for the both the players and the owners.

Yes, it would hurt the owners, in the sense that the 'pie' would be smaller. But it would hurt the players more because they have the larger share. Plus, the players, already unhappy with the escrow system as it were, would be furious at the very notion of having to write checks to billionaire owners. It just wouldn't happen.

The truth is, there's a very valid (from the owners perspective anyway) and what I would have thought, obvious reason why the owners refused to play the season under the old CBA or even a temporary one and it has nothing to do nonsensical fear over a players strike.

The reason why the owners went to a lockout instead of a season under a temporary CBA is because that would have meant playing through another year where the players were getting 57% of revenue and they were getting 'only' 43%.

That's it.

The principle point of this owner initiated lockout is that they were unhappy with the previous split. They were allegedly, 'losing' too money because of it. Playing through the season makes absolutely no sense from that perspective, regardless of whether the players would agree to a no-strike agreement.

Not only would the players have no incentive to agree to a deal where their split goes down, especially immediately like the owners wish, another season of 43% from an owners perspective would have meant another season of 'losses.'

Playing in that scenario would have been even more hypocritical and disingenuous to the public than when the owners rushed to sign all their players to long-term deals right before the September 15 deadline and then demanding a 5 year term limit on player contracts going forward.

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12-13-2012, 01:36 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I just have to get this off my chest. Sorry for the long post.

Bettman , with the best intentions, opened the game to new markets. He had a big picture view of how the game could potentially flourish in new markets and become an " american game". While opening up so many franchises below the mason dixon line made little sense, the alternative was not an attractive choice either. For a league to stay stagnant would confine the NHL to a small niche fanbase that has been amazing loyal and supportive. IN order to bring the NHL into a grander light Bettman was brought in hoping he could do for the NHL what Stern did for BBALL.


Remember Bball before Stern was insanely unpopular. For instance the 1980 Finals was on Tape Delay. Bird Magic and Jordan increased the games popularity but Stern was able to market the product in ways sports has never been presented to an audience.

Back to hockey....

in 2004, the Owners conceded basically. There was such a discrepancy between the Stable franchises and Unstable expansion franchises that something had to be done. The lockout had to be done for so many reasons and basically saved the sport. Players salaries were way to high and though the market supported those salaries, teams simply could not keep going down a capless road.


in 2004 Players made the sacrifice to save the league.

2012- The league is still struggling to stablize many of the expansion franchises years later. Teams are literally losing money every year , and no owner will stand for that. Now the proposals the Owners need are going to really set the players back big time.

THere is still not an equal balance between competitiveness in this league, even though there is a cap. Smart teams have found ways to attract FA by offering them front loaded contracts and tacked on more years to help with the AAV. If the Flyers offer weber 14 mill for the first 2 years of his deal, can Phoenix or Columbus really compete with that?

These new proposals will make the league even more competitive but at the risk of losing some of the leagues biggest money makers. Revenue sharing is so important right now for many teams that it makes franchises like TML, NYR, and Boston so important because they are the money makers. In the NBA , the league thrives off big city money makers that allow teams like San Antonio, and Memphis to thrive. THose teams are not very marketable but are able to stay competive because The lakers, Heat, Knicks etc etc bring in so much money.

With the new proposals suggested, teams will have to make significant roster changes that may render them lottery bound. Will the rangers , bruins , and TML still be money makers when they are in the lottery?

The nba model shows that you need to market a handful of teams and build them up to be the big money makers to help the rest of the league.

If the NHL goes this new route, I think it will be hard for those big money teams to stay consistently competitive.

Either way , the players are getting a (another) raw deal. But it beats the alternative. The owners are not coming off their 3 bullet points for change. Its just a matter of time before the players take it or leave it.

If there is still a lockout this summer, the owners offer is not going to change, mark my words. THose 3 proposals are crucial for the survival of many franchises.
When?

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12-13-2012, 02:14 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by bambamcam4ever View Post
When?
They always will be. Rangers were consistently a 8-12 place team after 96... Team hardly did well at all, yet they still pulled in lots of revenue. it's a large fanbase in NYC.

Look at 97-98 to 03-04:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...angers_seasons

NO PLAYOFF QUALIFICATIONS... Pretty sure they were still big money makers. I know my dad still watched them even when they sucked lol

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12-13-2012, 02:20 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Spezza19 View Post
NHL not even being listed on Fox Sports website, behind Nascar, NCAA, golf, soccer, and than having to go to more to find it is an absolute joke. Really speaks volumes of how the game is viewed in the States. And even worse, the NHL used to be shown on Fox.

At least they're still on the top at ESPN....
Fox sports? hahahahhahaha

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12-13-2012, 02:22 AM
  #259
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I don't know why the lack of media coverage on the situation in the USA bothers me, but it does. It drives me ****ing nuts, actually. Considering some of the other crumbbum trashy nonsense that gets air time, this league can't get a 32-second spot at the bottom of a show?

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12-13-2012, 06:06 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Fox sports? hahahahhahaha
Why is that funny?

Fox Sports......as in the same network that is the leading carrier for NFL football and MLB playoffs in the States? The same network that showed the NHL a decade and a half ago?

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12-13-2012, 06:16 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
I probably should've worded that better.

I'm saying people will be even MORE excited for hockey because they took it away from us for the last couple months and will be jumping at the opportunity to go watch a game.

Just look how many people went nuts in the thread last week during those meetings.
Yes. some people will go on without a hitch,( there's no problem in that) but there are people who'll not show an inch of remorse. Not going to games when you have tickets or are a season ticket holder is throwing your own money away, or selling them is not even helping the cause.

Watch and go to games, and if your one who is really ticked off don't buy anything further.

We fans want to make a statement, but we don't want to ruin the game we love either. It would be nice if they could (if they really care about the fans) get better control of the cost of things. It's one thing for supply and demand on tickets, but concessions and merchandise is ridicules.

I look at this like buying a new vehicle, every time I go to buy a new truck the same truck I bought 2/5 years ago now has jumped about 3/5 thousand. There just comes a point where you say enough is enough. I won't be buying a new truck, just like I won't be buying hockey concessions and merchandise.

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12-13-2012, 06:28 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Renaud Lavoie on RDS tonight:

- ''Nothing happened today because the league knows it has Fehr and the players right where it wants them, in a very vulnerable position.''

- ''As long as it stays that way, I don't know how the PA changes the current situation and puts the onus on the owners. They've given the NHL 50/50 split, accepted 300 M on make whole...now they'll fight for 5 year term limits? It's normal to be mad, but the reality is that fighting on this issue only...they'll lose. Because there are hundreds of millions, 1.7 B or 1.8 B that could NOT be in the players pockets this year. Are they really ready to fight that battle to not have a 5 year term limit? It's where this is at. It's a very important question the PA must ask themselves.''

- ''The league does not need owners in the meetings, does not need to make the players a new offer...the players are in a vulnerable position and they can't escape at this stage...there will be eventually a panic movement inside the PA's ranks...and the owners know the players are stuck in that vulnerable position, that's why the owners won't move further and at a certain point a vote on the owners offer is inevitable.''

- ''Daly told me tonight that the league would gladly submit a written proposal to the PA for it go to a vote.''

- ''Lots of damage control going on inside the PA. Players in the meetings and PA reps are trying hard to sell the message they can't accept 5 year term limits, can't accept amnesty buyouts counting in make whole, etc''
Just bumping this. You guys should know that Lavoie was a huge NHLPA supporter when this all started and slowly became more and more on the owners side. You can feel, the way he's talking and hinting things, that Fehr position's is not unanimous anymore.

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12-13-2012, 06:28 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
I don't know why the lack of media coverage on the situation in the USA bothers me, but it does. It drives me ****ing nuts, actually. Considering some of the other crumbbum trashy nonsense that gets air time, this league can't get a 32-second spot at the bottom of a show?
The NHL does it to itself. No-one should be surprised.

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12-13-2012, 06:30 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Spezza19 View Post
NHL not even being listed on Fox Sports website, behind Nascar, NCAA, golf, soccer, and than having to go to more to find it is an absolute joke. Really speaks volumes of how the game is viewed in the States. And even worse, the NHL used to be shown on Fox.

At least they're still on the top at ESPN....
I noticed that as well.

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12-13-2012, 06:55 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Spezza19 View Post
Why is that funny?

Fox Sports......as in the same network that is the leading carrier for NFL football and MLB playoffs in the States? The same network that showed the NHL a decade and a half ago?
Who was thebroadcast that had a glowing puck becuase american´s couldn´t find it? Hmmm....Fox does football, as for hockey they are just terrible.


Last edited by heartsabres*: 12-13-2012 at 07:23 AM.
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12-13-2012, 07:01 AM
  #266
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https://twitter.com/darrendreger/sta...08382974545920

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12-13-2012, 07:04 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
It's like the South Park episode where Canada goes on strike but in the end they only get some coupons to Bennigan's.
Donald Fehr: Look, guy. We have to stay strong. If you don't stand with your fellow players, then you are a rat!
Roman Hamrlik: Don't call me a rat, buddy.
Donald Fehr: I'm not your buddy, friend.
Michael Neuwirth: He's not your friend, guy.
Donald Fehr: I'm not your guy, buddy.
Roman Hamrlik: He's not your buddy, friend.
Donald Fehr: I'm not your friend, guy.

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12-13-2012, 07:11 AM
  #268
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fml.

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12-13-2012, 07:20 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by domdo345 View Post
Just bumping this. You guys should know that Lavoie was a huge NHLPA supporter when this all started and slowly became more and more on the owners side. You can feel, the way he's talking and hinting things, that Fehr position's is not unanimous anymore.
Interesting point. I'm wondering if this is why the players seem so quiet coming out of last night's conference call. Is there anything out in the twitterverse (I swear - I'm never going anywhere near Twitter after this) stating what happened or how the players are responding to Fehr now?

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12-13-2012, 07:22 AM
  #270
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Interesting point about having the mediator draw up the new CBA (It's a comment further down the twitter chain). I've been suggesting binding arbitration since the beginning. Give the two sides a chance to bring their best (And most comprehensive - right Don???) offer to the table and let a third party make the decision.

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12-13-2012, 07:27 AM
  #271
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Interesting point about having the mediator draw up the new CBA (It's a comment further down the twitter chain). I've been suggesting binding arbitration since the beginning. Give the two sides a chance to bring their best (And most comprehensive - right Don???) offer to the table and let a third party make the decision.
The owners will never agree to binding arbitration. I'm not sure the players would be too wild about that either, they wouldn't be able to try and pull one over the owners' eyes that way.

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12-13-2012, 07:33 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Renaud Lavoie on RDS tonight:

- ''Nothing happened today because the league knows it has Fehr and the players right where it wants them, in a very vulnerable position.''

- ''As long as it stays that way, I don't know how the PA changes the current situation and puts the onus on the owners. They've given the NHL 50/50 split, accepted 300 M on make whole...now they'll fight for 5 year term limits? It's normal to be mad, but the reality is that fighting on this issue only...they'll lose. Because there are hundreds of millions, 1.7 B or 1.8 B that could NOT be in the players pockets this year. Are they really ready to fight that battle to not have a 5 year term limit? It's where this is at. It's a very important question the PA must ask themselves.''

- ''The league does not need owners in the meetings, does not need to make the players a new offer...the players are in a vulnerable position and they can't escape at this stage...there will be eventually a panic movement inside the PA's ranks...and the owners know the players are stuck in that vulnerable position, that's why the owners won't move further and at a certain point a vote on the owners offer is inevitable.''

- ''Daly told me tonight that the league would gladly submit a written proposal to the PA for it go to a vote.''

- ''Lots of damage control going on inside the PA. Players in the meetings and PA reps are trying hard to sell the message they can't accept 5 year term limits, can't accept amnesty buyouts counting in make whole, etc''
I think this is very true. And the Habs players seem to be hardliners. And IMO some journalists would follow them off a cliff. So one not willing to do that is not a good sign. But there are a few things that have happened that make me believe the NHL does have them right there want them or maybe not. Too much goes on behind the scenes but here goes.

1. There was the quote after last Thursday's debacle where a player implied the players wanted to take that deal but Fehr indicated they could get more.

2. This blog is very interesting. Maybe it's all a crock but there are a few lines that fall in line with what's been already said. It's been posted a couple of times now but it gets lost.

Players Asking Questions

3. Hamrlik made his remarks. But not only that he didn't back down. He's taken a little bit higher road but he's definitely not spewing the standard player rhetoric.

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12-13-2012, 07:35 AM
  #273
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Sounds like another day of nothing. Splendid.

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12-13-2012, 07:36 AM
  #274
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Sources told QMI Agency the league was going to cancel games up until Jan. 14 last Monday, but, trying to entice the players back to the table, decided to hold off to see if they could get talks back on track.

After negotiations went nowhere during a meeting with U.S. federal mediators Wednesday in Iselin, N.J., don't be surprised if NHL commissioner Gary Bettman decides to slap a "drop-dead date" on the union to get a deal done.

"Sooner or later they're going to have to tell (union executive director) Donald Fehr you have until this date to get it done," said a league insider Wednesday.

With 13 games on the schedule New Year's Eve, sources say the NHL held off on cancelling a month's worth of games when the league chopped two weeks off the schedule Monday because of hope for a deal. That is quickly being dashed.

"My belief is the league really wanted to show the players if they could get them into camp by Dec. 21, they could be back playing before the New Year. Doesn't look like that is going to happen now. It's time to give Fehr a target to get a deal done by," said the insider.
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/12/12...g-nhl-deadline

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12-13-2012, 07:36 AM
  #275
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Originally Posted by domdo345 View Post
Just bumping this. You guys should know that Lavoie was a huge NHLPA supporter when this all started and slowly became more and more on the owners side. You can feel, the way he's talking and hinting things, that Fehr position's is not unanimous anymore.
Saying anyone was a huge NHLPA supporter before the current turn of events is a bit rich. Could it be possible that the journalist is merely reflecting reality? At first only the players compromised. Then the owners finally compromised. Now, *if* the 5/7 limits are holding things up (as opposed to, say, the owner's desire to castrate the union in the process of making a deal) then the fair perception is that the players are now "in the way". Those contract limits seem fair to most people who follow professional sports. It's a ridiculous thing to hold up a deal over. (The issue of having salary rollbacks for existing contracts come up *every* CBA negotiation, on the other hand, I think most people see as serious issue.)

Moreover, considering the way the CBA has gone, why should a player who isn't at the end of his career want a long contract that exceeds the length of the CBA. After all, it's become clear that the contract value can get cut via the next CBA process on the back end. Doesn't make sense to me...

It's gotten to the point where the deal on the table appears to be a fair deal. The only way I can understand the players balking is if the owners really did require the players to marginalize Fehr in the process of finalizing a deal. For a union, that's like making a deal with the devil. It sets a precedent that the union is the league's gimp (like it was in the NFL for years). Otherwise, this continuing stalemate makes no sense at all.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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