It's also possible to set out a range of acceptable goals and give him the power to go out and get it.
Sure. Kinda like where I suggested they said "we want contract lengths shortened." So maybe their ideal is X, he asked for Y and will settle for Z. Still the same, he was told an acceptable range to go after and if the players ask for Q, they ain't gonna get it.
The owners have an ultimate goal, that ultimate goal has been outlined to Bettman. It's probably "here's what we'd ideally want, here's what we'll settle for." He negotiates to hopefully get what they want, but to definitely get the best he can as far as what they're willing to settle for. So he's doing what they tell him to do (go for the gold ring), but is allowed to attempt to achieve it using his own methods.
Do the players even realize how ****ing ridiculous this all is? They fight with eachother on twitter, say ridiculous things, they don't agree... while the owners sit there and laugh.
I would say that the union is in worse condition then it was under Goodenow. At least Goodenow conditioned the players as to what road they were headed down and what they would have to accept.
I do think the league - or at least many owners - wants to start on New Year's Eve and have a 50+ game season, having a holiday open would be a nice, tidy way to put a bow on this big, ugly mess...but that conclusion doesn't fit with Fehr or the hard-liners' (including Bettman) modus operandi of taking it to the last minute.
New Years is do-able as long as they get an agreement in principle by December 20th I think..
gives 5 days (including Christmas) for players to come back from Europe and re-convene with their teams with training camp starting on Dec 26th.
Training camp wraps up 5 days later on Dec 30th and we have the season opener(s) on December 31st.
Any later than Dec 20 with no agreement and hockey doesn't start until sometime in 2013 if at all.
EDIT - so that gives these guys EIGHT days to figure this **** out.
Sure. Kinda like where I suggested they said "we want contract lengths shortened." So maybe their ideal is X, he asked for Y and will settle for Z. Still the same, he was told an acceptable range to go after and if the players ask for Q, they ain't gonna get it.
The owners have an ultimate goal, that ultimate goal has been outlined to Bettman. It's probably "here's what we'd ideally want, here's what we'll settle for." He negotiates to hopefully get what they want, but to definitely get the best he can as far as what they're willing to settle for. So he's doing what they tell him to do (go for the gold ring), but is allowed to attempt to achieve it using his own methods.
Agreed. And therein lies a big part of the problem. After this CBA hopefully he is not involved in another. Let him concentrate on growing revenues which is more his strength.
I actually think the players didn't want to go back to work this close to christmas time. They are humans after all. They've been with their families for this long and this close to christmas to just go "bye" would really suck. My guess is wait until the New Year and this thing gets handled. Book it.
Bettman is a basketball guy. It's a common basketball strategy, when the game is almost over, to drag the game out by fouling and waiting for free throws. The CBA game is all but over and he's still fouling and waiting for some freebees. Meanwhile the fans are heading to their cars.
I actually think the players didn't want to go back to work this close to christmas time. They are humans after all. They've been with their families for this long and this close to christmas to just go "bye" would really suck. My guess is wait until the New Year and this thing gets handled. Book it.
You do know if they got the deal done now, the season wouldn't start until likely AFTER christmas, right?
IMO, Bettman has a confrontational style of negotiating. I've negotiated with those like him who take a win at all costs approach and get angry when things don't go their way and I've also negotiated with those who are more conciliatory and who concentrate on the bigger picture issues and are prepared to give on the minor ones. Both styles can be effective. But in a negotiation with professional athletes who also tend to be confrontational a more co-operative approach probably works better. I acknowledge that having Fehr on the other side makes being co-operative very difficult but I hold Bettman partly responsible for the players hiring Fehr in the first place. Just my opinion but I think that a more conciliatory approach from someone without all of Bettman's baggage could have probably got the players questioning Fehr's leadership more and got a deal done sooner.
As a fan individually and as a whole seeing everyone's disappointments after every meeting or so I'd like the season canceled ASAP. It's too much of a roller coaster.
You do know if they got the deal done now, the season wouldn't start until likely AFTER christmas, right?
I meant it in respects to last weeks negotiations. As of now, my guess is they wait until games are canceled past New Years and then get down to business.
Kind of simplistic outlook, but these players aren't exactly business men either.
I see a lot of hope floating around here and, for the life of me, I don't understand where that optimism is coming from.
Neither side appears to be all that interested in coming to an agreement. What I do sense is an almost morbid desire to hurt each other and come out the clear cut winner.
My prediction is the will be no winner after an agreement is eventually reached. The game of hockey, at least at the NHL level, is going to suffer. A lot of us fans will be back. A lot won't. Both sides will lose money. Sponsors will drop the league like a hot potato. Teams will move. Some will fold. Players jobs will be lost.
It's coming and neither side can see past the hatred they have for each other to notice the locomotive heading directly at them.
Last edited by 5 Minute Major: 12-12-2012 at 08:17 PM.
Yep, because Donald Fehr is the one responsible for the last twenty years of mismanagement and the previous season and a half of locked out hockey.
Ah yes, Fehr has a spotless labor relations record.
The guy wiped out one of the greatest seasons in MLB history and the playoffs, and got nothing out of it. He was dragged before Congress and reamed for continually blocking a drug testing policy that the players wanted.
Ah yes, Fehr has a spotless labor relations record.
The guy wiped out one of the greatest seasons in MLB history and the playoffs, and got nothing out of it. He was dragged before Congress and reamed for continually blocking a drug testing policy that the players wanted.
The most insane thing in my mind is that the best deal the players were going to get has come and gone. How can an idiot like me see it and the PA can't?
They will settle for less and everyone knows it. Tomorrow or next summer, it will be less.
In the end, what I think I'm most confused about, is what these hardliners that won't let the league vote on the NHL's proposal want/expect. I mean, we've got this negotiating committee of, seemingly, questionable overall intelligence (some bright guys, I'm positive, but than guys like Campoli, Morrison and Mayers?) who won't let anything get to a vote because they know their peers would almost undoubtedly pass it, which seems like poor representation to me. Some of these guys are not currently under contract and are unlikely to ever be again (in which case I fail to see how they actually count as NHLers...) and most of them are on the wrong side of 30 with 1-2 years left on their deals and unlikely to get another contract after that. They obviously don't want the deal that it seems, the consensus is that their peers WOULD say yes to (in a league-wide vote) but I can't really grasp what it is they think they will get. It's like they're in a fantasy world where Fehr has sold them some grand promise and they believe if they just hold out long enough Bettman will resign, the owners will fire him somehow, or the NHL will decide to buy every player in the negotiating committee a pet unicorn, make them co-owners of their teams, give them all raises on their current paychecks, let Marty Turco be a starter on some unlucky NHL team, vote Campoli into the all-star game before he fades into complete and utter irrelevance, pay the players 100% for the games missed this year and raise the salary cap to 400M per season, per team.
