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NHL Lockout XXVIII: Don't worry about the lockout. Let me worry about blank.

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:18 PM
  #51
KingBogo
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Originally Posted by IslesBeBack View Post
Do the players even realize how ****ing ridiculous this all is? They fight with eachother on twitter, say ridiculous things, they don't agree... while the owners sit there and laugh.

I would say that the union is in worse condition then it was under Goodenow. At least Goodenow conditioned the players as to what road they were headed down and what they would have to accept.

Fehr is just providing false hope and it's sad.
The NHLPA has gone past the point where anything more squeezed out of the middle ground between the 2 sides comes remotely close to the value of more lost paychecks. There is nothing left on the table that will effect 95% of them.

So what does Fehr say to a grinder on the back half of his career. Sure you only have a year or 2 left, but missing a couple more paychecks is a small price to pay to lower the CBA length to 8 years, and raise the max contract length up from 5 years. Think of the benefit to bantom players Canada and the States.

Too bad the players continue to follow blindly along.

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:20 PM
  #52
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The only people who actually care about having a season are the fans. The owners couldn't care less at this point and the players clearly don't.

If there's no movement within the next couple weeks, just cancel the season. Watching the players crying on twitter will be better than playoff hockey.

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:20 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
I see a lot of hope floating around here and, for the life of me, I don't understand where that optimism is coming from.

Neither said appears to be all that interested in coming to an agreement. What I do sense is an almost morbid desire to hurt each other and come out the clear cut winner.

My prediction is the will be no winner after an agreement is eventually reached. The game of hockey, at least at the NHL level, is going to suffer. A lot of us fans will be back. A lot won't. Both sides will lose money. Sponsors will drop the league like a hot potato. Teams will move. Some will fold. Players jobs will be lost.

It's coming and neither side can see past the hatred they have for each other to notice the locomotive heading directly at them.
The game is absolutely going to suffer in the short term, but the game has its lot of fans, and it'll get back on its feet again. A game that's been around for over 100 years won't just dissipate and go away.

But I'll tell you, the NHL has to get it right this time. If you're going to break the union and back them into a corner (which they've already done, season or no season), you have to make sure you get the things you need so that in 6, 7, 8 years from now you can let them feel lke they've won with certain gains. This was their big mistake in 2004 and they're paying for it in this negotiation.

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:20 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
He got twenty years of labour peace out of it.

Would love to have that with the NHL.
Labor peace maybe but crap product. The same four to six teams competing for a ring every year is the result of 1994, and it took a huge fan like me completely away from the game because of it.

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:20 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by RC24 View Post
The most insane thing in my mind is that the best deal the players were going to get has come and gone. How can an idiot like me see it and the PA can't?

They will settle for less and everyone knows it. Tomorrow or next summer, it will be less.
This is what I don't get...

It's not just that but the longer they decide how much less to take the more money they lose.

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:21 PM
  #56
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Labor peace maybe but crap product. The same four to six teams competing for a ring every year is the result of 1994, and it took a huge fan like me completely away from the game because of it.
Hopefully we won't need a court ruling to get there either.

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:21 PM
  #57
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David Pollak
#Sjshark DMurray back in NYC for today's meetings: “I believe we’re very close right now and I think the deal should be able to get... (1/2)

David Pollak
"...done from the circumstances we’re in right now. But it’s not done and it’s frustrating.” (2/2)

Just sharing tweets

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:22 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
He got twenty years of labour peace out of it.

Would love to have that with the NHL.
What does this even mean?

The league saw record growth under the parameters the OWNERS wanted and GOT in 2004.

I trust a bunch of billionaires with a track record over players who come and go. They get paid, they will always get paid.

Fehr, and the union, are going to be dismantled. Bank on it.

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:25 PM
  #59
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BLANK?! You can't handle the blank!

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:25 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Ah yes, Fehr has a spotless labor relations record.

The guy wiped out one of the greatest seasons in MLB history and the playoffs, and got nothing out of it. He was dragged before Congress and reamed for continually blocking a drug testing policy that the players wanted.
This part is what a lot of people need to remember, he has a history of going against the wishes of his union just to get his way, no matter how obvious is it that what he is doing is not the right thing to do.

I'm not going to get back into the "uneducated high school dropouts" thing again, but to hire Fehr after his congressional embarrassment, that's a fairly unintelligent move for the PA as a whole.

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:25 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
He got twenty years of labour peace out of it.

Would love to have that with the NHL.
He threatened a strike in 2002 that would have also wiped out the playoffs then too, and the only reason that the MLBPA backed down was when the fan reaction was almost universally hostile. Not "negative", but outright hostile.

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:25 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by RC24 View Post
Labor peace maybe but crap product. The same four to six teams competing for a ring every year is the result of 1994, and it took a huge fan like me completely away from the game because of it.
World Series Champions since 1994

Atlanta
New York
Florida
Arizona
Anaheim
Boston
Chicago
St Louis
Philadelphia
San Fransisco

Stanley Cup Champions since 1994

New York
New Jersey
Colorado
Detroit
Dallas
Tampa Bay
Carolina
Anaheim
Pittsburgh
Chicago
Boston
Los Angeles

10 different World Series champs
12 different Stanley Cup champs

Oh the humanity!!

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:25 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by IslesBeBack View Post
The game is absolutely going to suffer in the short term, but the game has its lot of fans, and it'll get back on its feet again. A game that's been around for over 100 years won't just dissipate and go away.

But I'll tell you, the NHL has to get it right this time. If you're going to break the union and back them into a corner (which they've already done, season or no season), you have to make sure you get the things you need so that in 6, 7, 8 years from now you can let them feel lke they've won with certain gains. This was their big mistake in 2004 and they're paying for it in this negotiation.
People don't even care about the lockout in the States. So while the lockout won't affect certain teams, it certainly will affect others and that is not good for the league. So instead of having 5 or 6 teams not making money, what if that number goes up to 12-13?

The league will be affected by this. There are some fans like myself who will not spend money on the NHL for a while if ever. I was a big MLB fan. But that lockout made me so disgusted I stopped following the sport. A lot of people did too. Baseball is losing popularity but they're staying afloat due to the lack of a cap and the monster franchises. NHL doesn't have that. It's a fringe sport that will always be fringe especially with all of these lockouts.

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:27 PM
  #64
CerebralGenesis
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
World Series Champions since 1994

Atlanta
New York
Florida
Arizona
Anaheim
Boston
Chicago
St Louis
Philadelphia
San Fransisco

Stanley Cup Champions since 1994

New York
New Jersey
Colorado
Detroit
Dallas
Tampa Bay
Carolina
Anaheim
Pittsburgh
Chicago
Boston
Los Angeles

10 different World Series champs
12 different Stanley Cup champs

Oh the humanity!!
Order in the courts!

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:27 PM
  #65
Mayor Bee
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
10 different World Series champs
12 different Stanley Cup champs

Oh the humanity!!
MLB looks exactly like the NHL did in the 1990s. If you have money in that uncapped world, you can both help your own team and destroy the others in the process. If you don't have money, you get to develop players who will simply leave as free agents.

You ignore the fact that going into every season, the same 10 fan bases have zero hope to make the postseason at all, and another 5 recognize that it would take a miracle to get there at all. MLB is a two-tiered system, and it's a joke.

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:28 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by IslesBeBack View Post
What does this even mean?

The league saw record growth under the parameters the OWNERS wanted and GOT in 2004.

I trust a bunch of billionaires with a track record over players who come and go. They get paid, they will always get paid.

Fehr, and the union, are going to be dismantled. Bank on it.
So then why are those same parameters so untenable now? The players are more than willing to play under the CBA that saw the league have "record growth".

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:29 PM
  #67
5 Minute Major
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Originally Posted by Sniper Archetype View Post
David Pollak
#Sjshark DMurray back in NYC for today's meetings: I believe were very close right now and I think the deal should be able to get... (1/2)

David Pollak
"...done from the circumstances were in right now. But its not done and its frustrating. (2/2)

Just sharing tweets
I think everyone appreciates the tweets. I know I do because I am not on Twitter.....however, I think all of us are at the point where we, deep down, want to break the fingers of all those out in Twitterland, or whatever it's called. Press, players, owners, whoever. Just shut up with the optimism. We've all heard the same crap before and it all remains the same at the end of the day.

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:30 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by IslesBeBack View Post
What does this even mean?

The league saw record growth under the parameters the OWNERS wanted and GOT in 2004.

I trust a bunch of billionaires with a track record over players who come and go. They get paid, they will always get paid.

Fehr, and the union, are going to be dismantled. Bank on it.
Baseball revenue growth since 1992:
1992: $1.2 billion
2012: $7.5 billion
($6.3 bil increase, or 625% increase, or 31.25%/year)

NHL revenue:
1992: $400 million
2012: $3.28 billion
($2.88 bil increase, or 820% increase, or 41%/year)

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:32 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
MLB looks exactly like the NHL did in the 1990s. If you have money in that uncapped world, you can both help your own team and destroy the others in the process. If you don't have money, you get to develop players who will simply leave as free agents.

You ignore the fact that going into every season, the same 10 fan bases have zero hope to make the postseason at all, and another 5 recognize that it would take a miracle to get there at all. MLB is a two-tiered system, and it's a joke.
Other than the New York Rangers in 1994, please tell me which Stanley Cup champs (repeat champs no less) bought their success? New Jersey? Colorado? Detroit? Dallas?

The successful teams in the 90's built their teams the exact way that today's idealists think they should. Through drafting and trades.

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:35 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
World Series Champions since 1994

Atlanta
New York
Florida
Arizona
Anaheim
Boston
Chicago
St Louis
Philadelphia
San Fransisco

Stanley Cup Champions since 1994

New York
New Jersey
Colorado
Detroit
Dallas
Tampa Bay
Carolina
Anaheim
Pittsburgh
Chicago
Boston
Los Angeles

10 different World Series champs
12 different Stanley Cup champs

Oh the humanity!!
Could you do the same for playoff futility in the leagues? Pirates fans around here are curious. Hehe, at least I don't have to watch those Royals.

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:36 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
Other than the New York Rangers in 1994, please tell me which Stanley Cup champs (repeat champs no less) bought their success? New Jersey? Colorado? Detroit? Dallas?

The successful teams in the 90's built their teams the exact way that today's idealists think they should. Through drafting and trades.
That's not what I said. What I said is that half the league was reduced to serfdom because of the economic structure, and is directly detrimental to the overall health of the league.

Ask anyone who was a fan of a Canadian team starting in about 1995 how easy it was. Draft, develop, trade for picks and prospects...draft with the picks, develop the acquired prospects, and then have to trade them before they hit free agency. Perhaps, if everything went right, a team might be able to rise up and have a year or two of success before plummeting back to the depths. The NHL was able to move past that when the salary cap leveled the playing field.

MLB still has exactly the same structure. There is ZERO hope in Cleveland, or Kansas City, or Colorado, or Pittsburgh, or Houston, or Florida, or any of a multitude of other cities. There never is any hope. And that will not change in the immediate future, and possibly ever.

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:37 PM
  #72
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The game is absolutely going to suffer in the short term, but the game has its lot of fans, and it'll get back on its feet again. A game that's been around for over 100 years won't just dissipate and go away.

But I'll tell you, the NHL has to get it right this time. If you're going to break the union and back them into a corner (which they've already done, season or no season), you have to make sure you get the things you need so that in 6, 7, 8 years from now you can let them feel lke they've won with certain gains. This was their big mistake in 2004 and they're paying for it in this negotiation.
I can tell you what I am going to do....and I have been a die-hard for almost 40 years. I will not punish myself. I will continue to watch the game of hockey. I will get the center ice package. I will not, however, purchase ANY NHL merchandise (clothing, hats, yada, yada) again. And I do mean forever.

That means my wife and my theree kids, all teenagers, and we all love the Sabres, will not be making our annual purchases that runs us roughly around $1,000.00 a year.

That's nothing for the NHL to lose but, like I said, I am a die hard. I'm sure I am not the only one out there that has had enough and will strike back, even in a small way, at these childish billion and millionaire's.

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12-12-2012, 08:37 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
He got twenty years of labour peace out of it.

Would love to have that with the NHL.
MLB was almost destroyed by the strike. It took two juiced up behemoths hitting absurd amounts of monstrous homeruns in the same season to get fans back in the seats. There is no way to equate that in hockey. Stamkos and Geno aren't going to chase 92 goals.

The long term damage done to the game by fehr here is being severely underestimated

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Old
12-12-2012, 08:39 PM
  #74
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Could you do the same for playoff futility in the leagues? Pirates fans around here are curious. Hehe, at least I don't have to watch those Royals.
Pirates fans need to stop blaming all of their problems on economic disparity.

They play in NL central for crying out loud! Every single team except for the Pirates has won the division inside the last five years.

The Pirates have a pathetic management group. Their problem is not MLB's economic framework.

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12-12-2012, 08:39 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
People don't even care about the lockout in the States. So while the lockout won't affect certain teams, it certainly will affect others and that is not good for the league. So instead of having 5 or 6 teams not making money, what if that number goes up to 12-13?

The league will be affected by this. There are some fans like myself who will not spend money on the NHL for a while if ever. I was a big MLB fan. But that lockout made me so disgusted I stopped following the sport. A lot of people did too. Baseball is losing popularity but they're staying afloat due to the lack of a cap and the monster franchises. NHL doesn't have that. It's a fringe sport that will always be fringe especially with all of these lockouts.
OK but the NHL will be just fine when it comes back. Attendance will be down at first, but it will come back just fine.

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