By "those people," I mean atheists. I figured it was pretty self explanatory.
That's my point. 4 christian republicans are trying to force an oath on high school students; atheists have nothing to do with it, yet your complaint is:
Quote:
As stated, this is done by the same ppl that complain about God being anywhere near anything.
What exactly is being done by atheists here, other than having God shoved down their throat yet again for no reason?
EDIT: btw, I would be just as outraged if democrats pushed a bill to specifically deny the existence of God in public schools, or forcing students to reject Jesus in order to graduate.
I am just sooooooo tired of the Christian victim shtick.
That's my point. 4 christian republicans are trying to force an oath on high school students; atheists have nothing to do with it, yet your complaint is:
What exactly is being done by atheists here, other than having God shoved down their throat yet again for no reason?
EDIT: btw, I would be just as outraged if democrats pushed a bill to specifically deny the existence of God in public schools, or forcing students to reject Jesus in order to graduate.
I am just sooooooo tired of the Christian victim shtick.
Well...get ready to be outraged, cuz that is happening all over the country.
Yikes, might as well get out of this thread if I'm being referred to as one of "those people".
I honestly couldn't care less about the "so help me god" stuff. If people were forced to say "burn the heathens" that would be something. I'm only rolling my eyes at this, I'm leaving the torch and pitchfork in the closet.
I was going to go into a long rant about some of the comments in this thread, but decided we were all better off. You know what they say, friends that want to stay friends don't talk about politics or religion.
By "those people," I mean atheists. I figured it was pretty self explanatory.
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but the most equal and 'free' societies in the world (not to mention successful) have the highest rates of atheism. If you think the proposed law is okay or somehow reflective of constitutional values, then you have to count yourself among those that give AZ a bad name.
Quote:
The peope who ***** about this, are the same people who ***** about "One nation, under God" in the Pledge.
Probably because "under God" and "In God we trust" were inserted into the pledge and placed on American money in response to the red scare in the 50s.
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but the most equal and 'free' societies in the world (not to mention successful) have the highest rates of atheism. If you think the proposed law is okay or somehow reflective of constitutional values, then you have to count yourself among those that give AZ a bad name.
Probably because "under God" and "In God we trust" were inserted into the pledge and placed on American money in response to the red scare in the 50s.
I don't see the big deal in it. Is reciting it the big hoopla or is the fact that in the athiest article provided that the God part was bolder that you have an issue with?
I don't see the big deal in it. Is reciting it the big hoopla or is the fact that in the athiest article provided that the God part was bolder that you have an issue with?
If it said "So help me Allah" or "So help me Satan" would you still be okay with it? Would it still not be a big deal?
Was the country founded under allah or satan?? Nope. Not by our founding fathers.
The country was not founded on Christian principles. Even if it was, all religions (including the freedom to abstain from religion) are protected equally under the constitution. That you don't know this is scary.
The country was not founded on Christian principles. Even if it was, all religions (including the freedom to abstain from religion) are protected equally under the constitution. That you don't know this is scary.
Hmmm...I feel the true reason about the beginning of this "debate" was wether these kids should recite the oath. If this oath is wrong, then why should high school kids take constitution classes? Just playing the devils advocate here.
If this oath is wrong, then why should high school kids take constitution classes? Just playing the devils advocate here.
This is a complete non sequitur. If anything, it's because I learned about the Constitution that I oppose mandatory loyalty oaths with clear religious underpinnings.
Was the country founded under allah or satan?? Nope. Not by our founding fathers.
You are correct, times have changed. We've moved from a country founded on humanist, deomcratic values to plain idiocracy.
Quote:
“Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting ‘Jesus Christ,’ so that it would read ‘A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion," the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Muslim, the Hindu and Infidel of every denomination.” -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to his Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
Looking back at the article link, it was given to us in a form of a cheap shot to the state of Arizona in order to try and give the state a bad name. No place on Earth in perfect. Every state you live in has its good things and bad things about it. Of course in my preference, I prefer to live more in the Southwest quarter of the USA for my own reasons over a place like New York or New England.
If I'm not mistaken (which I am not) the author of the bill is trying to make it optional now.
Stupid bills are proposed each year, however, never make it.
“The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”
You are, indeed, very mistaken. This isn't Soviet Russia. Children in the US aren't forced to swear an oath to a Christian god to get their diploma. That's exactly what this bill wants to do. If you even bothered to read the first sentence of the article you replied about several times, you'd know that.
“The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”
You are, indeed, very mistaken. This isn't Soviet Russia. Children in the US aren't forced to swear an oath to a Christian god to get their diploma. That's exactly what this bill wants to do. If you even bothered to read the first sentence of the article you replied about several times, you'd know that.
I'm not. The author of the bill, from flagstaff, now is trying to redact the bill and make it optional to say the oath. There is an article on azcentral.com about it right now.
I'm not. The author of the bill, from flagstaff, now is trying to redact the bill and make it optional to say the oath. There is an article on azcentral.com about it right now.
Optional or not, this shouldn't even be something that occurs to get your diploma. My sister goes through so many checks and balances of the schools my nephews will attend to make sure they are getting a good education. She has continually thought of home schooling(she has her degree in education, and was teaching for 3 years before having her first child until being a stay at home mom).
I think it is so sad that people might have to worry about where they are sending their children to get an education. I appreciate the fact that she wants her kids to have a great education, and going through a checks and balances on her own of the schools they are going to.
But in the end, there shouldn't be any saying you should be optionally involved in(at first it was required with this bill correct?). You should get your degree by proving yourself to focus on your studies, understand the material, and complete the requirements to continue on with the next step of your life if you wish to do so.
The fact that this was even brought up, no matter who it is, or what their intent was, just to make it optional as I've read this thread, is ABSURD!!!!! KEEP POLITICS AND RELIGION out of schools. They have no place there.
Not that it means much to many of you, but I wanted to apologize for my antagonistic posts yesterday. It has been a few years since I was in high school and up until recently, I was pretty brainwashed so to speak with the party I supported. Glad I woke up in time!
Anyways, Waff, I agree to an extent that there should be the separation but if we are going to say that, then we should stick to it and not contradict ourselves. I remember when my daughter was in 1st grade and they had the president speaking to all kids in the classrooms. This is wrong if we believe in that separation.
Lately, people brought up the defense of the 1st amendment about the oath, but what about the second amendment?
