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Jagr vs Lafleur

View Poll Results: greater player?
Lafleur 14 22.22%
Jagr 49 77.78%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-13-2012, 12:48 PM
  #1
amnesiac
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Jagr vs Lafleur

who will go down in history as the greater player?

Both were fortunate to be on great teams when they won their respective Cups. Lafleur didnt have a Mario centring him, although Jagr won most of his Art Rosses WITHOUT Mario. Jagr also played 10+ years in the dead puck era.

Who was the greater goal scorer? playmaker? defensive forward?

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Old
12-13-2012, 12:52 PM
  #2
dr robbie
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both were amazing. if I had to pick one, would have to go with Jagr.

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Old
12-13-2012, 01:17 PM
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TAnnala
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The European mullet for me.

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Old
12-13-2012, 01:20 PM
  #4
McGuillicuddy
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I think both of these guys are actually underrated for different reasons. Tough to call IMHO.

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Old
12-13-2012, 01:35 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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If you asked me 5 years ago, I would have said Lafleur. Since then, I've come to appreciate just how difficult it is to win multiple Art Rosses in the modern era, let alone 5 of them.

I do think that there is a good case that Lafleur peaked higher, at least if you include the playoffs. But Jagr's longevity as an elite player is just so much greater than Lafleur's, it overwhelms whatever small difference there might be at their peaks IMO.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 12-13-2012 at 01:44 PM.
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Old
12-13-2012, 01:43 PM
  #6
jack mullet
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Jagr

as much as i like Lafleur, if you took all his career stats, but put him in a Scouts and Kings jersey his whole career, i wonder if he would still be a top 10-15 player.

alot of times peoples legends are amplified because of the team they played for

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12-13-2012, 01:57 PM
  #7
tombombadil
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Jagr, definitely


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Old
12-13-2012, 02:15 PM
  #8
LeBlondeDemon10
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You all know where my heart lies, but Jagr's level of excellence has extended beyond the length of Lafleur's. In fact Jagr displayed a level of dominance in the late 90's early 2000's that only the top 4 have accomplished. While Lafleur may have been the best for a period of 5 years in the 70's, he was never that much ahead of his peers. I disagree with Jack Mullet's statement. Had Lafleur played on a poor team, he might have been given more ice time with less defensive responsibilities which might have led to increased scoring. In his first 3 years, he was getting about 8 minutes a game, whereas Dionne was probably closer to 20. After the dynasty, Lafleur did not have the quality of players Jagr had at any time in his career. Lafleur retired too early as well. In 83-84, he was on pace for 40 goals, but when Lemaire came in February, he took Guy down a notch in ice time and in desire to play. In 1984-85, he showed he could still skate with the best, but 6 minutes a game does not allow for much. #%^& you Lemaire!

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Old
12-13-2012, 02:15 PM
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BenchBrawl
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As far as ''Greater'' goes , I think it is Lafleur.His playoffs and him being the go-to-guy of a dynasty while being one of the clutchiest players to ever live makes him ''greater'' than Jagr in my eyes.I'm saying this in the sense that he's more of a hero/legend.Jagr has a better resume overall when you consider pure statistics.

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Old
12-13-2012, 02:36 PM
  #10
Fred Taylor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
If you asked me 5 years ago, I would have said Lafleur. Since then, I've come to appreciate just how difficult it is to win multiple Art Rosses in the modern era, let alone 5 of them.

I do think that there is a good case that Lafleur peaked higher, at least if you include the playoffs. But Jagr's longevity as an elite player is just so much greater than Lafleur's, it overwhelms whatever small difference there might be at their peaks IMO.
How did Lafleur peak higher? Jagr was basically putting up equal or better numbers in the DPE, while Lafleur spent his prime in the high scoring late 70's. Career wise there's no debate to me, Jagr was better, and for longer.

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12-13-2012, 02:40 PM
  #11
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Pretty much the entirety of Jagr's prime/peak is during the DPE, and he's top 10 all-time in scoring (with most of the DPE's offensive awards). Mad, mad respect.

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12-13-2012, 02:41 PM
  #12
BraveCanadian
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For prime years it is close.

For career it is Jagr. His longevity as an upper level player compared to Lafleur is just too much to ignore.

I think their respective playoff records have more to do with the timing of their primes in relation to their teams than anything.

Lafleur was obviously dynamite in the playoffs but he had a lot more help in that regard too.

Jagr's playoffs are underrated due to era and how bad his teams were when he was at his best.

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Old
12-13-2012, 02:46 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Taylor View Post
How did Lafleur peak higher? Jagr was basically putting up equal or better numbers in the DPE, while Lafleur spent his prime in the high scoring late 70's. Career wise there's no debate to me, Jagr was better, and for longer.
Lafleur basically averaged 1.5 points per game in the playoffs over a large sample size, and none of his teammates were close to him.

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Old
12-13-2012, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
For prime years it is close.

For career it is Jagr. His longevity as an upper level player compared to Lafleur is just too much to ignore.

I think their respective playoff records have more to do with the timing of their primes in relation to their teams than anything.

Lafleur was obviously dynamite in the playoffs but he had a lot more help in that regard too.

Jagr's playoffs are underrated due to era and how bad his teams were when he was at his best.
I think that Jagr's playoffs absolutely were underrated at the time, probably because he was being unfavorably compared to Mario.

But I actually think they are getting a tad overrated in retrospect. Sure, Jagr went about his business in the playoffs and put up points, but other than the first round in 1999, when did he take over a series?

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Old
12-13-2012, 03:03 PM
  #15
BraveCanadian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I think that Jagr's playoffs absolutely were underrated at the time, probably because he was being unfavorably compared to Mario.

But I actually think they are getting a tad overrated in retrospect. Sure, Jagr went about his business in the playoffs and put up points, but other than the first round in 1999, when did he take over a series?
He was dynamite when Mario was out against the Rangers during the Cup run in 92 for one. At least from what I recall.

I'm not the biggest Jagr fan by any stretch but let's be honest.. his teams in the late 90s were weak. He was practically a one man team after Francis left.

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Old
12-13-2012, 03:37 PM
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Bexlyspeed
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I would love to say guy, he was an icon when i was just getting into the game and i always respected him ( a little less when he played for the rags)

But Jagr is a greater player.

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12-13-2012, 03:38 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Even though I voted for Jagr, I'm surprised to see him running away with this right now. Shows how much the history board has changed over the last few years.

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12-13-2012, 03:50 PM
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TAnnala
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Even though I voted for Jagr, I'm surprised to see him running away with this right now. Shows how much the history board has changed over the last few years.
Just think about it when we, meaning the guys in the main board, start to talk about Crosby and Ovechkin in history section. It is going to have devastating effect on HOH all-time lists.

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12-13-2012, 03:54 PM
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Rhiessan71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Even though I voted for Jagr, I'm surprised to see him running away with this right now. Shows how much the history board has changed over the last few years.
Yep, 3-4 years ago, I would have had Lafleur over Jagr and Potvin over Lidstrom.

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Old
12-13-2012, 04:53 PM
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LeBlondeDemon10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Even though I voted for Jagr, I'm surprised to see him running away with this right now. Shows how much the history board has changed over the last few years.
I'd say less than a year. Wasn't there a poll in the last year and Lafleur ran away with it?

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12-13-2012, 05:19 PM
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amnesiac
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Originally Posted by LeBlondeDemon10 View Post
I'd say less than a year. Wasn't there a poll in the last year and Lafleur ran away with it?
2010 http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=825905

2005 http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...t=jagr+lafleur

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12-13-2012, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by LeBlondeDemon10 View Post
I'd say less than a year. Wasn't there a poll in the last year and Lafleur ran away with it?
Pretty sure that was a poll as to who was better in their prime and I would have voted Lafleur in that.
Overall career = Jagr
Prime/peak = Lafleur

Pretty much Lidstrom vs Potvin all over again for me.
Or maybe Bourque vs Potvin would be more accurate.

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12-13-2012, 08:04 PM
  #23
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I would pick Jagr but it's much closer than some are saying.

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12-13-2012, 10:44 PM
  #24
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Not sure why people are saying it's close unless they are only looking at peak (regular season and playoffs) and nothing else.

Jagr's longevity and the high level he maintianed is jsut too much to ignore.

Even with Guys peak in the playoffs his play outside of 75-79 is either being ignored or dealt with in some other way.

Sure his peak of 5 straight playoff performances from 75-79 is stronger than any 5 year peak of Jagr's but guy also had 9 other seasons in then playoffs or do people forget that?

Bossy versus Lafleur would be a better poll as Jagr just has too much on his resume on both guys IMO.

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Old
12-13-2012, 10:51 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I think that Jagr's playoffs absolutely were underrated at the time, probably because he was being unfavorably compared to Mario.

But I actually think they are getting a tad overrated in retrospect. Sure, Jagr went about his business in the playoffs and put up points, but other than the first round in 1999, when did he take over a series?
'92- 6 points in the 4 games after Lemieux was injured vs. Rangers
8 points in 4 games vs. Boston

'95- 7 goals and 11 points in 7 games vs. Caps, including 4 goals and 7 points in 3 games after down 3-1

'96- 9 points in 6 games vs. Caps, including 3 goals and 7 points in 4 games after down 2-0 (esp. key were his 2 points in 4 OT game 4, when Lemieux was thrown out during regulation... Jagr scored a SH goal to cut deficit to 2-1 near end of 2nd period, and drew penalty then set up PP goal to win it in 4 OT).

7 goals and 9 points in 5 games vs. Rangers

'99- legendary in games 6 & 7

'00- 3 goals and 10 points in 5 games vs. Caps

5 goals and 6 points in first 3 games (up 2-1), then played extremely well in 59+ TOI during 5 OT loss in game 4, but was injured in game 5 (Pens lost the series)

'07- 7 points in 4 games as he dissected Atlanta

'08- 8 points in 5 games as he dominated the Devils

3 goals and 7 points in 5 games vs. Pens, as he singlehandedly tried to keep Rangers competitive

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