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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Jagr vs Lafleur

View Poll Results: greater player?
Lafleur 14 22.22%
Jagr 49 77.78%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:32 PM
  #26
Morgoth Bauglir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jack mullet View Post
Jagr

as much as i like Lafleur, if you took all his career stats, but put him in a Scouts and Kings jersey his whole career, i wonder if he would still be a top 10-15 player.

alot of times peoples legends are amplified because of the team they played for
I dunno. It seems to me that among hard-core hockey followers the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction: Great players from dynasty teams getting underrated because they played for great teams. Maybe amongst the casual fans players get amplified for playing on dynasties and hard-cores are overreacting to it

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Old
12-14-2012, 01:49 AM
  #27
Regal
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Not sure why people are saying it's close unless they are only looking at peak (regular season and playoffs) and nothing else.

Jagr's longevity and the high level he maintianed is jsut too much to ignore.

Even with Guys peak in the playoffs his play outside of 75-79 is either being ignored or dealt with in some other way.

Sure his peak of 5 straight playoff performances from 75-79 is stronger than any 5 year peak of Jagr's but guy also had 9 other seasons in then playoffs or do people forget that?

Bossy versus Lafleur would be a better poll as Jagr just has too much on his resume on both guys IMO.
I've seen you criticize Lafleur's playoffs before, but I think it's ridiculous. Playoffs shouldn't be judged in a vacuum. Lafleur was great in the playoffs when he was a great player, and not great when he wasn't. His other playoffs are part of the knock on his longevity. You can't punish him twice.

On a side note, I feel like Jagr's longevity is getting massively overrated again here. After 28, he really didnt do a whole lot. He was a disappointment in Washington, hit the lockout, was great for two years in NY, had a good but down season as he was dealing with a shoulder injury I believe, then left for the KHL. His last playoffs were great in the NHL and he was good in the KHL, so he may have continued on with great seasons, and he may have been great in the missed season, but we'll never know considering his time in Washington. I feel like a lot of people here criticize players for what ifs, but Jagr's longevity doesn't seen to be held to that same standard. It's better than Lafleur's sure, and why I would pick Jagr here, but it's not that special.

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Old
12-14-2012, 02:55 AM
  #28
Big Phil
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Jagr has played too long for him not to win here. Also is a prime Lafleur (1977) better, or MUCH better than a 1999 Jagr? Honestly I don't see much of a difference at all. So if peak vs. peak is relatively the same (and I think it is) then there is no doubt Jagr trumps him in longevity. The contribution to a dynasty for Lafleur is a huge thing considering he was the vital cog, but he just flamed out too fast.

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Old
12-14-2012, 07:14 AM
  #29
tony d
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This should be much closer than what it is. I voted for Lafleur here.

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Old
12-14-2012, 08:06 AM
  #30
Hardyvan123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regal View Post
I've seen you criticize Lafleur's playoffs before, but I think it's ridiculous. Playoffs shouldn't be judged in a vacuum. Lafleur was great in the playoffs when he was a great player, and not great when he wasn't. His other playoffs are part of the knock on his longevity. You can't punish him twice.
I agree that playoffs shouldn't be judged in a vacuum but there is too much emphasis on guy's peak and not enough attention on his career in the playoffs IMO. Part of the context is the great Hab teams he was on, Jagr didn't always have the same type of situation either.

Guy probably beats Jagr on the playoff front with that great peak but man it's really close as Jagr has had more consistency in the playoffs overall albeit for worse teams.

Quote:
On a side note, I feel like Jagr's longevity is getting massively overrated again here. After 28, he really didnt do a whole lot. He was a disappointment in Washington, hit the lockout, was great for two years in NY, had a good but down season as he was dealing with a shoulder injury I believe, then left for the KHL. His last playoffs were great in the NHL and he was good in the KHL, so he may have continued on with great seasons, and he may have been great in the missed season, but we'll never know considering his time in Washington. I feel like a lot of people here criticize players for what ifs, but Jagr's longevity doesn't seen to be held to that same standard. It's better than Lafleur's sure, and why I would pick Jagr here, but it's not that special.
Sure he only scored a PPG in the playoffs after 28 and was top 2nd in goals once and 3,5,9th in assists and 2,5 and 8th in points.

Then again his peak and prime before 28 is both longer and higher than guy's 6 years as well.

Maybe it would have all been different if guy doesn't get injured and never truly recaptures his glory days but it's really not even close to Jagr.

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Old
12-14-2012, 08:30 AM
  #31
ot92s
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hmmm...tough one. I think I'd take jagr's size over guy's speed.

another hairsplitter, they're both on the second tier of the pyramid.

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Old
12-14-2012, 08:57 AM
  #32
tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
Yep, 3-4 years ago, I would have had Lafleur over Jagr and Potvin over Lidstrom.
Both Jagr and Lidstrom solidified their legacies in my mind when they continued to dominate at a time when reasonable expectations would have been for them to decline. So many guys in their late 30s go the route of Modano or Brett Hull, where you almost forget they're in the league at the end. So when we come across a Mario, Jagr, Chelios, Lidstrom type who is out there looking great at 38, it gives me pause to consider just how good they have been all these years.

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