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Lockout XXIX: Your questions have become more redundant than the Highlander movies

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12-13-2012, 04:07 PM
  #1
ThirdManIn
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Lockout XXIX: Your questions have become more redundant than the Highlander movies

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12-13-2012, 10:51 PM
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CBJBrassard16
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I read someone said there was a report of backdoor negotiations? Any truth? Where is this report?

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12-13-2012, 10:51 PM
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CheerstoBeers
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Maybe I read the article wrong, James mirtle had tweeted it not long ago...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle6344601/

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12-13-2012, 10:51 PM
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NJDevs26
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btw just to respond to the guy who posted on back-room dealing in the last thread, I think you're referring to the Burton report last week. Which may or may not have had some merit to it since the sides 'did' get close to a mid-week deal but ultimately that blew up. There's been no real reported progress since.

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12-13-2012, 10:52 PM
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LetangInTheSO
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Captain Canuck...did you just advocate (in the previous thread) for a system that allowed for ownership collusion???

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12-13-2012, 10:56 PM
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LickTheEnvelope
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Has the NHLPA given their position on why they feel so strongly about the counter offers they made on the term lengths and cba lengths?

The only statements i've heard so far are basically incorrect...

Besides a couple of other minor issues that seems to be all that's standing in the way of wrapping up this deal...

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12-13-2012, 10:57 PM
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I'm sorry if this has been addressed before, but with talks of contraction in the previous thread, I'm curious what happens to players on teams that get contracted. Is there some kind of draft? Or do they simply become free agents?

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12-13-2012, 10:59 PM
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DyerMaker66
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
Are you talking about the Packers? They're publicly owned but they're not run by the shareholders or the community, as far as I can tell. It's not like they have a public vote every time a business decision is made.
That'd be slightly unrealistic and tedious though, wouldn't it? I understand that John Doe of Green Bay doesn't set the Packers ticket prices.

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The WHA "almost" worked in the 1960s and 1970s because NHL players were underpaid at the time. A new league could never succeed now because players are overpaid. The NHL, despite doing a good job maximizing its revenue, barely made a net profit last year.
That's partially a result of ownership stupidity, partially a result of NHL leadership stupidity, and partially a result of GM stupidity: Fix these three things and you've fixed the NHL.

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12-13-2012, 11:01 PM
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Anybody kind enough to give me a quick cliff notes on where we are at this point? I haven't followed closely the last 3 days.

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12-13-2012, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralSwell View Post
I'm sorry if this has been addressed before, but with talks of contraction in the previous thread, I'm curious what happens to players on teams that get contracted. Is there some kind of draft? Or do they simply become free agents?
Don't know how the NHL would do it, but the MLS had some sort of dispersal draft I vaguely remember after a team was contracted.

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12-13-2012, 11:06 PM
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CpatainCanuck
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Originally Posted by LetangInTheSO View Post
Captain Canuck...did you just advocate (in the previous thread) for a system that allowed for ownership collusion???
No...then again I didn't advocate like you did for a system that allowed the players to be unionized but forbids nhl teams from collectively bargaining salaries.

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12-13-2012, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
That'd be slightly unrealistic and tedious though, wouldn't it? I understand that John Doe of Green Bay doesn't set the Packers ticket prices.
Well, you said the team was "community run," I believe it was, to back up the idea of having communities run the NHL teams. I don't think they're "community run." And while you may get an NHL team or two to the same "community owned" status, I can't see any of them being successful because they just won't have the revenues to run the team from the sales of shares. They'd need a TV deal like the NHL has.

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Not when compared to players 1-698 perhaps, but certainly when compared to people 700-7 Billion.
Sorry, I have to disagree. I think that the world population probably has a number of players who are better than #699 NHL player. A large number. Unless it's your belief the worst NHL player is better than the best player in Sweden or Russia?

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12-13-2012, 11:10 PM
  #13
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Be cool if teams contracted, to have 1 big massive fantasy draft. Teams left could protect 1 player at each position. The rest go into a draft with there current contracts intact. Then every team goes equally into a lottery system to determine draft order. After every round, a new lottery system happens to determine the order of picks. Teams would not be able to go over the alloted cap with there picks.

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12-13-2012, 11:12 PM
  #14
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Originally Posted by CheerstoBeers View Post
Maybe I read the article wrong, James mirtle had tweeted it not long ago...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle6344601/
This could be an olive branch leak. Interesting

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12-13-2012, 11:13 PM
  #15
LetangInTheSO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
No...then again I didn't advocate like you did for a system that allowed the players to be unionized but forbids nhl teams from collectively bargaining salaries.
Show me where I said that I wanted to forbid the NHL from bargaining with the union.

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12-13-2012, 11:15 PM
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This could be an olive branch leak. Interesting
I'd be more optomistic if there were NO leaks at all. Anything the media gets hold of I'm forced to look at with a suspicious eye now, since it's usually floated for PR.

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12-13-2012, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheerstoBeers View Post
Maybe I read the article wrong, James mirtle had tweeted it not long ago...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle6344601/
Gee, that deal resembles something that has been posted on this board a thousand times since last week. So shocking.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:19 PM
  #18
DyerMaker66
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
Sorry, I have to disagree. I think that the world population probably has a number of players who are better than #699 NHL player. A large number. Unless it's your belief the worst NHL player is better than the best player in Sweden or Russia?
Maybe, maybe not, but it's largely semantics at that point imo (unless we're talking about certainties like Ovechkin): The difference between players 700 and 701 is probably no greater or less than the difference between player 701 and player 699.

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12-13-2012, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
I'd be more optomistic if there were NO leaks at all. Anything the media gets hold of I'm forced to look at with a suspicious eye now, since it's usually floated for PR.
Unfortunately this is true. Let's hope it's different this time around.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:23 PM
  #20
CpatainCanuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetangInTheSO View Post
Show me where I said that I wanted to forbid the NHL from bargaining with the union.
Well you said:

Quote:
EDIT: Further, you are right that the top teams skew the system. Lo and behold, a socialized system for labor isn't working...whoda thunk? God I hate socialism...
I supposed you didn't like revenue sharing or the salary cap, or any of the other collectively bargained measures that prove that the NHL is not a collection of competing capitalistic businesses but is instead a socialist league of businesses.

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12-13-2012, 11:26 PM
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The leak is a cleaver way of saying we will do this deal without offering it. Put's pressure on the PA to offer it. Put's pressure on Fehr. I like it.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:31 PM
  #22
LetangInTheSO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
Well you said:



I supposed you didn't like revenue sharing or the salary cap, or any of the other collectively bargained measures that prove that the NHL is not a collection of competing capitalistic businesses but is instead a socialist league of businesses.
You're right, I didn't. That doesn't mean that I don't believe the NHL has a right to bargain with the union, it means that I think that the economic model that the two sides collectively bargained for was a poorly conceived one.

I suspected then that a salary cap/revenue sharing model wouldn't solve the problem that NHL franchises would continue to struggle in places like Tennessee, Georgia, Arizona et. al

I'm not saying that I know what the answer is, but I virtually guarantee you that dropping the players' share by some small percentage figure won't magically put butts in seats in these crappy markets and thus we'll be facing the same problems at the expiration of the next CBA.

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12-13-2012, 11:31 PM
  #23
LickTheEnvelope
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The leak is a cleaver way of saying we will do this deal without offering it. Put's pressure on the PA to offer it. Put's pressure on Fehr. I like it.
Quote:
One NHL governor provided ESPN.com with the framework for a deal he insisted would be palatable to both sides. Assuming the elements that were discussed last week in New York were still in place -- like $300 million in "make-whole" monies, agreements on free agency and arbitration rights -- the governor said he believes the following elements would represent the middle ground in the outstanding contracting, CBA term and transition issues.

Letís call it the Do This Deal or Get Coal in Your Stocking for a Thousand Years deal.

-A nine-year CBA with a seven-year out for either side.
-A six-year contract limit with front-load/back-diving protection and eight-year limits for players who have been with a team for five years.
-Some simple buyout option as long as the buyouts are within the salary cap.
Done. Sadly there's zero chance the NHLPA will come back with this.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:35 PM
  #24
HawksFan74
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Done. Sadly there's zero chance the NHLPA will come back with this.
How far is it off their last offer? There is give and take from both sides there.

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12-13-2012, 11:37 PM
  #25
LetangInTheSO
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Done. Sadly there's zero chance the NHLPA will come back with this.
That looks like a "fair" deal for both sides - given their respective stated wants - to me. It doesn't address the league's actual economic problems, but it's nonetheless a decent looking compromise based on what each side says will work for them.

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