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Winger Depth in St. Louis

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Old
12-14-2012, 10:21 AM
  #1
jessejames
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Winger Depth in St. Louis

Is there another NHL team with four quality prospects on the wings like St. Louis has --namely, Tarasenko, Schwartz, Rattie and Jaskin? Just asking

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Old
12-14-2012, 11:01 AM
  #2
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Sens have Silfverberg, Stone, Zibenejad, Noesen, Puempel, Prince as wingers. Not as high end but depth for sure.

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12-14-2012, 11:51 AM
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Ducks: Palmieri, Etem, and Smith-Pelly. Holland, Rakell, Kerdiles, Wagner, and Roy are all C/W guys.

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12-14-2012, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Granny View Post
Sens have Silfverberg, Stone, Zibenejad, Noesen, Puempel, Prince as wingers. Not as high end but depth for sure.
Da Costa is really good, too.

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12-14-2012, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Ducks: Palmieri, Etem, and Smith-Pelly. Holland, Rakell, Kerdiles, Wagner, and Roy are all C/W guys.
I think the Ducks at worst can match the OP's question... although I would think Holland is more of a center at this point than a winger.

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12-14-2012, 12:57 PM
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He'll probably be used there, but with all the center capable players coming in, there's no guarantee that's where he stays. He reminds me a lot of Jeff Carter, so I don't think it'll matter if he ends up being moved there.

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12-14-2012, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Ducks: Palmieri, Etem, and Smith-Pelly. Holland, Rakell, Kerdiles, Wagner, and Roy are all C/W guys.
No offense but I don't think that group comes close to St. Louis. I'm not even a Blues fan, but that top-4 is pretty stacked.

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12-14-2012, 02:30 PM
  #8
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
No offense but I don't think that group comes close to St. Louis. I'm not even a Blues fan, but that top-4 is pretty stacked.
Smith-Pelly is the only one that I think is questionable.

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12-14-2012, 02:35 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Smith-Pelly is the only one that I think is questionable.
I've never been big on Palmieri, for one reason or another. I really like Etem, but I think he and Schwartz basically cancel eachother out. I like Rattie more than KP, but even if you cancel the two of them out that leaves arguably the best prospect in the NHL for STL.

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Old
12-14-2012, 02:43 PM
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Wings have Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco. Jarnkrok is C/W, otherwise Frk/Pulkkinen.

However, Tarasenko is a prospect that takes the cake over most teams..

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12-14-2012, 02:44 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I've never been big on Palmieri, for one reason or another. I really like Etem, but I think he and Schwartz basically cancel eachother out. I like Rattie more than KP, but even if you cancel the two of them out that leaves arguably the best prospect in the NHL for STL.
Chris Wagner had 51 points is 38 games last year in Division I. Schwartz had 41 points in 30 games in Division I. Both of them were sophomores.

I'm sorry, but whether you're big on Palmieri or not, he was one of the top goalscorers in the AHL last year. Atkinson is really the only forward that kept pace with him. What Rattie was doing in the WHL doesn't cancel that out.

Etem scored more goals in the WHL last year than any other forward there in the last decade. Schwartz doesn't cancel that out either.

That's not even getting into the five other guys, or the Swedish one I left out because I don't watch the SEL.

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12-14-2012, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Wings have Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco. Jarnkrok is C/W, otherwise Frk/Pulkkinen.

However, Tarasenko is a prospect that takes the cake over most teams..
We have good depth on the wing, but we don't really have a guy that projects to be an elite winger.

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12-14-2012, 03:06 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by MBauer View Post
We have good depth on the wing, but we don't really have a guy that projects to be an elite winger.
The topic is wing depth, not who has the best winger.

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12-14-2012, 03:13 PM
  #14
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
The topic is wing depth, not who has the best winger.
Yep I'm aware of that, i was just pointing out the quality of our depth isn't quite as good as a team like St. Louis. Guys like Jurco, Frk, and Pulkkinen have a lot to prove still before even being considered for the nhl.

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12-14-2012, 03:15 PM
  #15
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Da Costa is really good, too.
He's a C.

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Old
12-14-2012, 03:15 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by MBauer View Post
Yep I'm aware of that, i was just pointing out the quality of our depth isn't quite as good as a team like St. Louis.
Sorry, thought you were shooting it down for the lack of someone like Tarasenko.

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Old
12-14-2012, 03:20 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Chris Wagner had 51 points is 38 games last year in Division I. Schwartz had 41 points in 30 games in Division I. Both of them were sophomores.

I'm sorry, but whether you're big on Palmieri or not, he was one of the top goalscorers in the AHL last year. Atkinson is really the only forward that kept pace with him. What Rattie was doing in the WHL doesn't cancel that out.

Etem scored more goals in the WHL last year than any other forward there in the last decade. Schwartz doesn't cancel that out either.

That's not even getting into the five other guys, or the Swedish one I left out because I don't watch the SEL.
I'm in no way trying to argue prospect wing depth of St. Louis vs. Anaheim, but specific cases of point production last year are far from the only indication of future success. Better prospects get fewer points in the same league at the same age or even older and remain better prospects because they're on different teams, have different tools, and progress and plateau at different rates. It's just not as simple as you're saying.

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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
The topic is wing depth, not who has the best winger.
These are not mutually exclusive. If you take any four players for two teams, the 3rd and 4th of team A might be better than those on team B, but if they aren't that much better and the 1st guy on team B is way better than the 1st guy on team A, you could reasonably call depth in favor of team B - with the quality of one player making the biggest difference.

If the issue were "who has the most NHL-caliber prospects at wing," that's one thing, because team A could have five elite prospects and nothing afterwards, while team B could have seven guys that project as solid 3rd liners. But if you're talking about all-around depth, you could easily include the quality of every prospect in question.

Again, I don't care to compare the two teams, but it's just not as simple as you're making it out to be.

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Old
12-14-2012, 03:32 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
I'm in no way trying to argue prospect wing depth of St. Louis vs. Anaheim, but specific cases of point production last year are far from the only indication of future success. Better prospects get fewer points in the same league at the same age or even older and remain better prospects because they're on different teams, have different tools, and progress and plateau at different rates. It's just not as simple as you're saying.
If someone wants to point me to the tools the players I've listed are lacking, then I'd be happy to have that discussion. If someone gives me something a bit more complicated to work with, then I'll ante up with something more. Saying 'I'm not big on Palmieri' doesn't really say anything at all.

Quote:
Again, I don't care to compare the two teams, but it's just not as simple as you're making it out to be.
I'm sorry how does pointing out what the topic of this thread is count as an oversimplification?

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12-14-2012, 03:41 PM
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OP inciting troll response almost lol. But anyways I can play this from a Flames perspective.

Bartschi = Tarasenko
Gaudreau > Schwarz
Ferland < Rattie
Nemisz = Jaskin

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12-14-2012, 03:56 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Chris Wagner had 51 points is 38 games last year in Division I. Schwartz had 41 points in 30 games in Division I. Both of them were sophomores.
Isn't he a center? Regardless, calculate Schwartz's numbers over a 38 game period and it comes out one point higher than Wagner. Either way, it's irrelevant. Schwartz is just a better prospect, and I don't think many people(including yourself) would dispute that.

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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
I'm sorry, but whether you're big on Palmieri or not, he was one of the top goalscorers in the AHL last year. Atkinson is really the only forward that kept pace with him. What Rattie was doing in the WHL doesn't cancel that out.
Impressive, but I still haven't liked him the times I've seen him. Something about him, I just don't think he'll translate to the NHL level. Maybe I'm wrong and you're right, time will tell.

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Etem scored more goals in the WHL last year than any other forward there in the last decade. Schwartz doesn't cancel that out either.
Like I said before, I like Etem, but why is what he did impressive(65gm, 61-46-107) when Rattie's numbers weren't(69gm, 57-64-121)? Either way, I think you put waaaay too much stock into numbers when evaluating a prospect. If numbers were the end-all-be all, I could make an argument for Brendan Kichton being a better prospect than Morgan Rielly. I could also make a case for Etem being a pretty bad prospect right now as well, considering he only has 7 points in 22 AHL games.

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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
That's not even getting into the five other guys, or the Swedish one I left out because I don't watch the SEL.
Who? Smith-Pelley? Kerdiles? Holland? One is the type of guy most teams have, a probable 3rd liner, potential 2nd liner. The other two are centers. Rakell is a decent prospect, I suppose. Not really worth mentioning in this thread though, IMO.

Quick question: if you had the option of trading your winger prospects for STL's winger prospects, would you do it?

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Old
12-14-2012, 03:59 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfong View Post
OP inciting troll response almost lol. But anyways I can play this from a Flames perspective.

Bartschi = Tarasenko
Gaudreau > Schwarz
Ferland < Rattie
Nemisz = Jaskin


I like Bartschi...but he's not on the level of Tarasenko, who's among the leading scorers in the K.

And on Gaudreau's best day maybe he could be considered a wash with Schwartz...but no way does he have the edge. Gaudreau makes Schwartz look like power-forward, btw. And is that Greg Nemisz that you're touting? How much longer is he really going to be considered a prospect? Hasn't he officially entered 'suspect' category?

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Old
12-14-2012, 04:08 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Isn't he a center? Regardless, calculate Schwartz's numbers over a 38 game period and it comes out one point higher than Wagner. Either way, it's irrelevant. Schwartz is just a better prospect, and I don't think many people(including yourself) would dispute that.
I'm sorry, how many people here have actually watched both of these players play? I know I have.

He has played center and right wing over the last two seasons.

Quote:
Like I said before, I like Etem, but why is what he did impressive(65gm, 61-46-107) when Rattie's numbers weren't(69gm, 57-64-121)? Either way, I think you put waaaay too much stock into numbers when evaluating a prospect. If numbers were the end-all-be all, I could make an argument for Brendan Kichton being a better prospect than Morgan Rielly. I could also make a case for Etem being a pretty bad prospect right now as well, considering he only has 7 points in 22 AHL games.
You said Schwartz cancels out Etem.

Also, I'm sure that sample size of 22 games is good enough to write that prospect off. Like I'm sure it's okay to write off Schwartz for only having 14 points in 23.

Quote:
Who? Smith-Pelley? Kerdiles? Holland? One is the type of guy most teams have, a probable 3rd liner, potential 2nd liner. The other two are centers. Rakell is a decent prospect, I suppose. Not really worth mentioning in this thread though, IMO.
A third liner on his national team, perhaps.

Do you even know anything about Rakell that isn't summed up by a glance at his HockeyDB page? Because I get the distinct impression that most of what you have to say about these prospects doesn't go much deeper than that.

Quote:
Quick question: if you had the option of trading your winger prospects for STL's winger prospects, would you do it?
No. We don't have a guy yet that I think is on Tarasenko's level, but this thread isn't about who has the best winger. I would gladly trade our best for theirs.

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Old
12-14-2012, 04:12 PM
  #23
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I'm not big on either Rattie or Jaskin, so I'll actually agree with some others with Anaheim.

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Old
12-14-2012, 04:20 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
I'm sorry, how many people here have actually watched both of these players play? I know I have.

He has played center and right wing over the last two seasons.


You said Schwartz cancels out Etem.

Also, I'm sure that sample size of 22 games is good enough to write that prospect off. Like I'm sure it's okay to write off Schwartz for only having 14 points in 23.


A third liner on his national team, perhaps.

Do you even know anything about Rakell that isn't summed up by a glance at his HockeyDB page? Because I get the distinct impression that most of what you have to say about these prospects doesn't go much deeper than that.


No. We don't have a guy yet that I think is on Tarasenko's level, but this thread isn't about who has the best winger. I would gladly trade our best for theirs.
Interesting... considering your whole argument so far has been based on numbers. "why is this guy better than this guy if this guy did this in college while this guy was doing that." How did I get sucked into this? Oh, I get it, you got extremely defensive over me stating the obvious:

The Blues wing prospects are better than your Ducks' wing prospects. Period.

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12-14-2012, 04:27 PM
  #25
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Interesting... considering your whole argument so far has been based on numbers. "why is this guy better than this guy if this guy did this in college while this guy was doing that." How did I get sucked into this? Oh, I get it, you got extremely defensive over me stating the obvious:

The Blues wing prospects are better than your Ducks' wing prospects. Period.
I brought up those numbers because it sounded like you may not be acquainted with who some of the players I mentioned were. At this point, I'm going to guess all of them.

You got into this by trying to turn my post into a pissing contest. My point wasn't to say 'whoooo, we're better than you', it was to say 'I think we stack up well to the Blues'.

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