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Roster Talk '13 — Canada 5.0

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Old
01-04-2013, 02:27 PM
  #926
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Trouba - Jets
Gibson - Ducks
McCabe - Sabres
Galchenyuk - Habs
Darn, you mean it doesn't work like that!?!?!?

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01-04-2013, 02:31 PM
  #927
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The only lock I see is Charles Hudon. Obviously, MacKinnon, Drouin are locks if they're in the C. Monahan and Shinkaruk will probably make it as well, though they aren't locks at this point. Curtis Lazar will certainly be given a long look. Tom Wilson and Scott Laughton are IMO likely as well.
If we're gonna have any type of discussion about locks that goes beyond returning players then Monahan and shink are there. As it stands if you took all 19 year olds off those two are on the team, on this day.

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01-04-2013, 02:34 PM
  #928
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If we're gonna have any type of discussion about locks that goes beyond returning players then Monahan and shink are there. As it stands if you took all 19 year olds off those two are on the team, on this day.
Well, sure.

However, in terms of absolute locks to make the team next year (which mean that you exclude the Drouin, Mackinnon (might be in the NHL) and the 2 elite draft-eligibles that didn't make the team, cause they might NOT make it...), only one lock remains : Charles Hudon.

But it doesn't change -- possible lack of elite offensive player for next season. Next team might be grinding-oriented.

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01-04-2013, 02:38 PM
  #929
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Are there any players who were really close this year that will be available next year? Those players would probably have a great shot at making it.

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01-04-2013, 02:41 PM
  #930
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While I do agree with you that the 93s are a tad over-rated. The 94s are not significantly any better. Not significantly any better
Indeed... and while I'm not sold that Rielly is ready for the Leafs yet, suppose they have him anyway, suppose you scratch him, Reinhart off the list for his suspension, suppose Dumba still is in a bit of a funk with his progression... I'm not sure how next year's D could be even as good...? At least on paper, it's not looking better? There are of course good players at all the positions, great young forwards, D, promising goalies... but I don't see at any position where you can be confident next year's team can match this one. Soooo... again, the reality is going to have to be faced. Other teams are also good, and could just win again. There is nothing that Canada/Hockey Canada/next season's coach is going to be able to do to avoid that possibility.

There's always next year, but maybe at some point instead of dreaming how this years' team's failings will somehow be remedied by looking to the hoped-for roster upgrades on next year's new Golden Team... maybe there can just be a shift to recognizing that it's a pretty wide open tournament these days, and that's just the new reality. Speculating on the roster is fair game, and we'll do that for sure, that's what most of these posts are doing, anyway. But it's not going to be a better team, IMHO. It might get different bounces or do a few things slightly differently that will give a better result. Or not. It'll be fun to watch either way, though, and to speculate on which players are going to be there. I add my vote for Adam Pelech again on D, in that respect.

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01-04-2013, 02:54 PM
  #931
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I am absolutely shocked at the disaster the defense was for Canada, but not so shocked after the final team was selected:

Ryan Murphy - just isn't a good hockey player as his brain isn't ready for the pace of the game.

Dougie Hamilton - highly overrated or just a bad tourney? I don't see much of him in the OHL, but he doesn't look very good to me.

Harrington - I think he played pretty well, but actually came to play vs the USA unlike the rest.

Ouellet - I thought was okay as well

Reinhart - didn't do anything to impress me as an Isles fan

I think there were much better options in Percy, Ceci, and not to be a homer, but Pelech would've been a huge help for this team.

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01-04-2013, 03:02 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by Kvashinator12 View Post
I am absolutely shocked at the disaster the defense was for Canada, but not so shocked after the final team was selected:

Ryan Murphy - just isn't a good hockey player as his brain isn't ready for the pace of the game.

Dougie Hamilton - highly overrated or just a bad tourney? I don't see much of him in the OHL, but he doesn't look very good to me.

Harrington - I think he played pretty well, but actually came to play vs the USA unlike the rest.

Ouellet - I thought was okay as well

Reinhart - didn't do anything to impress me as an Isles fan

I think there were much better options in Percy, Ceci, and not to be a homer, but Pelech would've been a huge help for this team.
If you think Murphy is a defensive disaster than Cody Ceci wont give you much help.

And Adam Pelech will be on the team next year, but right now I think his footspeed would get exposed.

Despite being a Leaf fan, I havent seen Percy at all this year, so I cannot comment, but he looked good in his Marlies stint last year

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01-04-2013, 03:08 PM
  #933
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Indeed... and while I'm not sold that Rielly is ready for the Leafs yet, suppose they have him anyway, suppose you scratch him, Reinhart off the list for his suspension, suppose Dumba still is in a bit of a funk with his progression... I'm not sure how next year's D could be even as good...? At least on paper, it's not looking better? There are of course good players at all the positions, great young forwards, D, promising goalies... but I don't see at any position where you can be confident next year's team can match this one. Soooo... again, the reality is going to have to be faced. Other teams are also good, and could just win again. There is nothing that Canada/Hockey Canada/next season's coach is going to be able to do to avoid that possibility.

There's always next year, but maybe at some point instead of dreaming how this years' team's failings will somehow be remedied by looking to the hoped-for roster upgrades on next year's new Golden Team... maybe there can just be a shift to recognizing that it's a pretty wide open tournament these days, and that's just the new reality. Speculating on the roster is fair game, and we'll do that for sure, that's what most of these posts are doing, anyway. But it's not going to be a better team, IMHO. It might get different bounces or do a few things slightly differently that will give a better result. Or not. It'll be fun to watch either way, though, and to speculate on which players are going to be there. I add my vote for Adam Pelech again on D, in that respect.
this is the funk we get ourselves into.A bunch of players that don't have the big egos can be brought together to play as a team. I haven't seen a bad team from Canada yet. I seen some some bad games and bad periods but i also find our hockey the best to watch and will continue to encourage new ways to develop our program.

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01-04-2013, 03:10 PM
  #934
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Are there any players who were really close this year that will be available next year? Those players would probably have a great shot at making it.
Hunter Shinkaruk, probably be looked to as an offensive leader next year.

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01-04-2013, 03:20 PM
  #935
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If you think Murphy is a defensive disaster than Cody Ceci wont give you much help.

And Adam Pelech will be on the team next year, but right now I think his footspeed would get exposed.

Despite being a Leaf fan, I havent seen Percy at all this year, so I cannot comment, but he looked good in his Marlies stint last year

My problem with Murphy is he just flatout has zero hockey sense at all if he doesn't have the puck

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01-04-2013, 03:21 PM
  #936
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Hunter Shinkaruk, probably be looked to as an offensive leader next year.
Shinkaruk, Hudon, Monahan and Drouin will have to be our big guns. Max Domi is also a guy who I believe will make the top 6 next year

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01-04-2013, 03:26 PM
  #937
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Ryan Murphy - just isn't a good hockey player as his brain isn't ready for the pace of the game.
When I watch Murphy today compared to when he was 17, say, I worry more that his brain is even a factor... it didn't use to be. He was just go go go. And it worked. He didn't have to think about it, you didn't have to wonder if he was thinking about it, he was going to go, and he was good enough at it that the pluses always outweighed the minuses. His brain didn't have to worry about the pace of the game because HE set the pace of the game. Now, be it confidence, or trying to play a more complete game or whatever it is, he's lost that special edge, it seems. Same change in the OHL as for Team Canada, really. Just exposed moreso at the higher levels.

...
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I think there were much better options in Percy, Ceci, and not to be a homer, but Pelech would've been a huge help for this team.
I dunno. Every rose has its thorns. Percy seems steady, mobile, but incapable of anything spectacular... Harrington was Canada's best D... but is that what you want from everybody? And just that? Ceci might have given them a PP solution... but it was fair to think going in that that wasn't going to be needed, given the other personnel they had. Past that, he wasn't going to solve anything, and might have been lit up even more than some of the others were. Pelech is close, and is a personal favourite of mine... he does need to get quicker, though... dunno if that would have been an issue for him or not... what I do like about him is that he battles, and battles smartly most of the time, I'm not sure there was a lot of "battle" in this year's defense corps. He's not huge or physically intimidating, but he works hard on every shift and usually makes the right plays. Corrado seems to have had the best camp amongst those left out, but I understand the brass thinking that maybe he doesn't have that good a game in him all the time... there's more that goes into the selection than the camp, after all. It didn't work out, so naturally there is second-guessing going on. But in all honesty, I don't see that there were any errors in personnel decisions that could have clearly changed things.

I'll go out on a limb and say having Ryan Murray would have helped, though. But then, Sweden is in the gold medal game and look at all the guys they lost! Hindsight isn't going to answer anything IMHO.

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01-04-2013, 03:42 PM
  #938
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When I watch Murphy today compared to when he was 17, say, I worry more that his brain is even a factor... it didn't use to be. He was just go go go. And it worked. He didn't have to think about it, you didn't have to wonder if he was thinking about it, he was going to go, and he was good enough at it that the pluses always outweighed the minuses. His brain didn't have to worry about the pace of the game because HE set the pace of the game. Now, be it confidence, or trying to play a more complete game or whatever it is, he's lost that special edge, it seems. Same change in the OHL as for Team Canada, really. Just exposed moreso at the higher levels.

...

I dunno. Every rose has its thorns. Percy seems steady, mobile, but incapable of anything spectacular... Harrington was Canada's best D... but is that what you want from everybody? And just that? Ceci might have given them a PP solution... but it was fair to think going in that that wasn't going to be needed, given the other personnel they had. Past that, he wasn't going to solve anything, and might have been lit up even more than some of the others were. Pelech is close, and is a personal favourite of mine... he does need to get quicker, though... dunno if that would have been an issue for him or not... what I do like about him is that he battles, and battles smartly most of the time, I'm not sure there was a lot of "battle" in this year's defense corps. He's not huge or physically intimidating, but he works hard on every shift and usually makes the right plays. Corrado seems to have had the best camp amongst those left out, but I understand the brass thinking that maybe he doesn't have that good a game in him all the time... there's more that goes into the selection than the camp, after all. It didn't work out, so naturally there is second-guessing going on. But in all honesty, I don't see that there were any errors in personnel decisions that could have clearly changed things.

I'll go out on a limb and say having Ryan Murray would have helped, though. But then, Sweden is in the gold medal game and look at all the guys they lost! Hindsight isn't going to answer anything IMHO.

I think the problem with selecting these offensive defenseman is that defense in these leagues minus the W isn't a mainstay. I didn't like Murphy his draft year, and I like him even less now. He just doesn't have much besides his skating ability. He is a lesser Marc Andre-Bergeron. As for the guys that weren't there, I was shocked they didn't take a guy like Pelech. His footspeed might have been an issue, but his smarts would've been a huge plus. I don't think this defense needed spectacular they needed capable

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01-04-2013, 04:09 PM
  #939
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Indeed... and while I'm not sold that Rielly is ready for the Leafs yet, suppose they have him anyway, suppose you scratch him, Reinhart off the list for his suspension, suppose Dumba still is in a bit of a funk with his progression... I'm not sure how next year's D could be even as good...? At least on paper, it's not looking better? There are of course good players at all the positions, great young forwards, D, promising goalies... but I don't see at any position where you can be confident next year's team can match this one. Soooo... again, the reality is going to have to be faced. Other teams are also good, and could just win again. There is nothing that Canada/Hockey Canada/next season's coach is going to be able to do to avoid that possibility.

There's always next year, but maybe at some point instead of dreaming how this years' team's failings will somehow be remedied by looking to the hoped-for roster upgrades on next year's new Golden Team... maybe there can just be a shift to recognizing that it's a pretty wide open tournament these days, and that's just the new reality. Speculating on the roster is fair game, and we'll do that for sure, that's what most of these posts are doing, anyway. But it's not going to be a better team, IMHO. It might get different bounces or do a few things slightly differently that will give a better result. Or not. It'll be fun to watch either way, though, and to speculate on which players are going to be there. I add my vote for Adam Pelech again on D, in that respect.
Isn't that what I said? You just said it in about 800 more words than I did. I can speculate on next year's roster every morning with my morning coffee and from my perspective next year's team is in a really hard spot. practically no returning players..and the only players with any splash at all will be 16 year old McDavid and 17 year old Ekblad...and those 2 are a few years away from being impact players at the U20. The gold medal drought will extend for a few more years I'm afraid.

And yes, I'll take Pelech on the team. Still doesn't significantly improve the team. Hockey Canada really has to look into character/not penalty prone players, above average skaters and pick the team in June. Have a 2 week summer camp in July. The team is picked way in advancem with room for one or two additions in the December camp, get everybody playing in the December camp in exhibition games...and let the team grow its own identity...and enough of the silly gimmicks of lamps and capes and phoney boloney Hockey Canada BS.


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01-04-2013, 04:14 PM
  #940
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As someone mentioned in another thread, they can name Reinhart to the Men's WC team... so he can serve out his 3 games there. (IF they think he's that important to them next year)

Actually, don't the pre-competition games count? He wouldn't miss the tournament at all.

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01-04-2013, 04:22 PM
  #941
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Isn't that what I said? You just said it in about 800 more words than I did.
Dunno, you didn't mention players. I elaborated, wasn't really replying to you anyway, just elaborating my own thoughts on next year's D. And more...
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I can speculate on next year's roster every morning with my morning coffee and from my perspective next year's team is in a really hard spot. practically no returning players..and the only players with any splash at all will be 16 year old McDavid and 17 year old Ekblad...and those 2 are a few years away from being impact players at the U20. The gold medal drought will extend for a few more years I'm afraid.
My position is more that we won't be able to guess either way about droughts. On paper, the team may look worse, that's kind of my expectation, or it could look a little better in one area or another. But regardless of that, the outcome could be the same. Or better. Or worse. There are too many factors beyond head-to-head player personnel comparisons. It's still fun to speculate on what the player personnel will be anyway. Just not really possible at this point to take the next step into projecting that this new personnel will produce a different result. Generally speaking, though, Canada probably needs to ramp down it's "expectation of Gold" for every roster. It'll always have a chance, of course, likely always be a contender. Including next year. There are good enough players for that to be a consistent expectation, anyway.

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01-04-2013, 04:29 PM
  #942
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Dunno, you didn't mention players. I elaborated, wasn't really replying to you anyway, just elaborating my own thoughts on next year's D. And more...

My position is more that we won't be able to guess either way about droughts. On paper, the team may look worse, that's kind of my expectation, or it could look a little better in one area or another. But regardless of that, the outcome could be the same. Or better. Or worse. There are too many factors beyond head-to-head player personnel comparisons. It's still fun to speculate on what the player personnel will be anyway. Just not really possible at this point to take the next step into projecting that this new personnel will produce a different result. Generally speaking, though, Canada probably needs to ramp down it's "expectation" of Gold for every roster. It'll always have a chance, of course, likely always be a contender. Including next year. There are good enough players for that to be a consistent expectation, anyway.
No, Canada's expectation should be to win gold every year, some years obviously more so than others....but what should be toned down is the hysteria about the result if the result is not what is expected. I have no problem with not winning a gold medal as long as we lost with our best on the ice and they were given every opportunity to win. This year we lost with our best on the ice, but I don't think they were given everything in order to achieve that...coaching this year was questionable. But still, the Americans kicked our ass up, down and sideways. good for them, they deserve to be in the gold medal game.

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01-04-2013, 04:33 PM
  #943
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As someone mentioned in another thread, they can name Reinhart to the Men's WC team... so he can serve out his 3 games there. (IF they think he's that important to them next year)

Actually, don't the pre-competition games count? He wouldn't miss the tournament at all.
That was me who mentioned naming him to the senior team. Not sure if the pre-tournament games count. I hope somebody has an answer to that q. if that's the case, then problem solved.

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01-04-2013, 04:46 PM
  #944
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No, Canada's expectation should be to win gold every year, some years obviously more so than others....
Canada the team, or Canada the nation of hockey mad fans?

Canada the team can "expect" whatever they want, I guess... if it is considered a psychological advantage to "expect" to win - and if that doesn't result in them underestimating their opponents or failing to prepare fully, then fine, whatever. Wrap themselves up in flags and Proclamations of Excellence, and go to it. Failure is not an option. (Until you fail, but by then it's too late so what, fine.)

Canada the nation of hockey mad fans, however, should recognize that there are lots of other good hockey-faring nations who can beat us on any given night, and be satisfied with "contending" every year. That perspective would take care of the hysteria part too.
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but what should be toned down is the hysteria about the result if the result is not what is expected. I have no problem with not winning a gold medal as long as we lost with our best on the ice and they were given every opportunity to win. This year we lost with our best on the ice, but I don't think they were given everything in order to achieve that...coaching this year was questionable. But still, the Americans kicked our ass up, down and sideways. good for them, they deserve to be in the gold medal game.

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01-04-2013, 04:49 PM
  #945
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Canada the team, or Canada the nation of hockey mad fans?

Canada the team can "expect" whatever they want, I guess... if it is considered a psychological advantage to "expect" to win - and if that doesn't result in them underestimating their opponents or failing to prepare fully, then fine, whatever. Wrap themselves up in flags and Proclamations of Excellence, and go to it. Failure is not an option. (Until you fail, but by then it's too late so what, fine.)

Canada the nation of hockey mad fans, however, should recognize that there are lots of other good hockey-faring nations who can beat us on any given night, and be satisfied with "contending" every year. That perspective would take care of the hysteria part too.


In my best Sean Connery impersonation, I think you've got it old boy!

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01-04-2013, 05:16 PM
  #946
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Indeed... and while I'm not sold that Rielly is ready for the Leafs yet, suppose they have him anyway, suppose you scratch him, Reinhart off the list for his suspension, suppose Dumba still is in a bit of a funk with his progression... I'm not sure how next year's D could be even as good...? At least on paper, it's not looking better? There are of course good players at all the positions, great young forwards, D, promising goalies... but I don't see at any position where you can be confident next year's team can match this one. Soooo... again, the reality is going to have to be faced. Other teams are also good, and could just win again. There is nothing that Canada/Hockey Canada/next season's coach is going to be able to do to avoid that possibility.

There's always next year, but maybe at some point instead of dreaming how this years' team's failings will somehow be remedied by looking to the hoped-for roster upgrades on next year's new Golden Team... maybe there can just be a shift to recognizing that it's a pretty wide open tournament these days, and that's just the new reality. Speculating on the roster is fair game, and we'll do that for sure, that's what most of these posts are doing, anyway. But it's not going to be a better team, IMHO. It might get different bounces or do a few things slightly differently that will give a better result. Or not. It'll be fun to watch either way, though, and to speculate on which players are going to be there. I add my vote for Adam Pelech again on D, in that respect.
Rielly and Pulock looked really good as a pairing in the first game of the super series. I understand that it was only one game, but if Rielly doesn't make the leafs next year, I think its worth looking into.

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01-04-2013, 06:00 PM
  #947
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That was me who mentioned naming him to the senior team. Not sure if the pre-tournament games count. I hope somebody has an answer to that q. if that's the case, then problem solved.
Jenner just served part of his suspension during pre-tournament so I'm going to say yes.

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01-04-2013, 06:17 PM
  #948
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Stepping outside the CHL, Michael Matheson (Boston College) and JuJhar Khaira (Michigan Tech) are probably the only Canadians in the NCAA who would have a shot. Matheson was a 2012 first rounder to Florida, Khaira a 3rd rounder to Edmonton.

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01-04-2013, 06:29 PM
  #949
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Originally Posted by Kvashinator12 View Post
I am absolutely shocked at the disaster the defense was for Canada, but not so shocked after the final team was selected:

Ryan Murphy - just isn't a good hockey player as his brain isn't ready for the pace of the game.

Dougie Hamilton - highly overrated or just a bad tourney? I don't see much of him in the OHL, but he doesn't look very good to me.

Harrington - I think he played pretty well, but actually came to play vs the USA unlike the rest.

Ouellet - I thought was okay as well

Reinhart - didn't do anything to impress me as an Isles fan

I think there were much better options in Percy, Ceci, and not to be a homer, but Pelech would've been a huge help for this team.
I'm not a big Hamilton fan at this point but as he matures mentally and physically he probably will be a horse. I think Murphy is terrible maybe he can play forward. In retrospect they really missed Ryan Murray

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01-04-2013, 06:33 PM
  #950
Kershaw
 
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I think Canada needs to step away from the traditional 'top 6 for scoring, bottom 6 for grinding' system they implement. Put skilled, speedy wingers with big centers on the bottom 2 lines and carry a PK specialist as the extra man.

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