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Old
12-13-2012, 12:01 PM
  #1
ursavolta
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La - fla

I feel that Florida needs a bit more young offensive power in the back end..

What would florida have to give up for Muzzin or Hickey?
(build our pool a bit, help the farm club as petrovic/robak has some learning curves they need to jump over)


Also, what would florida have to give for Loktionov or possibly nick shore ?

(Would rather give the 2nd line to someone else in our pool besides santorelli, but i figured loks would be good on the second line..if the season starts that is..)


Please be reasonable and think before you type! Thanks!

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12-13-2012, 12:26 PM
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etherialone
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I am familiar with your prospects a bit but was wondering if you could put together a few ideas on what you would consider fair game for the trade it would be easier to give you an accurate opinion.

Kings need wing prospects pref LW with top 6 potential or a 1st,2nd rd pick in 13. Good enough prospect no need to add a pick or higher risk prospect add a pick.

Maybe package one of your high end LW prospects and a pick get Hickey Loktionov and Muzzin.

Hickey and Muzzin are both NHL ready and will be solid and so is Loktionov. He would be a very good 2nd line center who is responsible in both ends and starting to develop a really good feel/scoring touch in the NHL too.

We have room to extend any or each of these guys but the price would have to be right.

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12-13-2012, 01:02 PM
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ursavolta
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Nice response!

Alright, well I would like Florida to keep our first round (negotiable) but I do feel we can give our 2nd

But I think our main hole currently is the offensive punch in the back end. So I am focused on either muzzin or hickey.

The only winger I can think of that works on your top 6 LW scenario is Howden and hubs (sorry currently non-negotiable) , but it's hard to judge Howden so early on to see his role in the cats and our value/need on his services.

Would love to acquire : Lok + Hickey/Muzzin
Realistically I feel we need : Muzzin or Hickey

We do not have the true crazy need for a 2nd line center as Bjugstad, Shore and possibly hubs could fill in next year...


Assets I feel we can give : 2nd ('13,'14) Matthias, Ellerby, Skille, Weaver

Can you give me a brief background on Lewis?
What can we work out?

Thanks!

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12-13-2012, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ursavolta View Post
ille, Weaver

Can you give me a brief background on Lewis?
What can we work out?

Thanks!
Lewis brings a ton more than his numbers say, so he's not someone the Kings would trade. When the going gets tough and the games get bigger, Lewis takes his game to a completely different level. Given how the Kings' brass feel about Lewis, it would take an obvious over-payment to pry him away.

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12-13-2012, 01:26 PM
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Unite the Shore bros in L.A. Shore for Muzzin or Hickey and Loktionov.

Not really sure if that's close or not.

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12-13-2012, 01:31 PM
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ursavolta
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Unite the Shore bros in L.A. Shore for Muzzin or Hickey and Loktionov.

Not really sure if that's close or not.
I was thinking the same thing for Florida! I wanted Nick so we could have the shore brothers on the team.

For now I feel we should keep Shore.

Any other deals?

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12-13-2012, 02:31 PM
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We can use your first rounder this year, if you still have it (assuming there is a season).

Or if you're adventurous, we would give a lot for Gudbranson.

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12-13-2012, 03:05 PM
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As an outside observer I just have to say that Hickey's value is extremely low.

If I were Florida, I'd go for Muzzin. Slightly more useful offensively and bigger.

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12-13-2012, 03:46 PM
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I cannot see Florida being interested in either Loktionov or Shore, they have a lot better in the system. Hickey's value is low and he's RFA next year and you might get him for cheap. I like Muzzin, but he's not going to get you close to any of the Panthers top prospects, unless you add a lot.

You would think the Panthers would want some veteran help, until their top prospects mature. What is being offered here is a lot of maybe's, and not much help.

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12-13-2012, 03:48 PM
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ok lets start with Hickey for the 2nd. i think that would be fair. With howden and huberdeau both being top 6 possible lws i was wondering if there any way fleischmann would be available. He is someone we tried (rumour) to aquire before therefore passes the deans right fit test. I think something like hickey lotki ( gagne if needed ) and a 2nd in 14 (maybe to much if so take out the pick )

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12-13-2012, 03:49 PM
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Despite Hickey's value, you would be crazy to want Muzzin over him.

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12-13-2012, 03:52 PM
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rajuabju
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Muzzin, Hickey, Loktionov could all be had for picks.

Probably a 2nd Loktionov and Muzzin. We'd be lucky with a 3rd for HIckey at this point.

Kings fans need to stop being delusional about Hickey and just come to terms that it was a bad pick.

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12-13-2012, 03:59 PM
  #13
KingCanadain1976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajuabju View Post
Muzzin, Hickey, Loktionov could all be had for picks.

Probably a 2nd Loktionov and Muzzin. We'd be lucky with a 3rd for HIckey at this point.

Kings fans need to stop being delusional about Hickey and just come to terms that it was a bad pick.
Hickey maybe slower to develope then we would like i wouldn't say hes a total bust yet. He has not seen any nhl action and i think its still to early to judge him. The would be the season to let him get some nhl time and see what he looks like. I think fair value on him is a 2nd. He was close to making the team last year amoung the last cuts i seem to remember.

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12-13-2012, 04:03 PM
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Frolov 6'3
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Hickey has been the last cut for several years now.

Muzzin is worse though.

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12-13-2012, 04:44 PM
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Honestly I would not mind taking hickey. I think it would be a good project to develop him and possibly bring him up to help the blue line when he defines his game a bit more.

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12-13-2012, 06:36 PM
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Just wanted to say this is the most civil thread I have ever seen on HF. I am impress...

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12-13-2012, 06:46 PM
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KingCanadain1976
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Just wanted to say this is the most civil thread I have ever seen on HF. I am impress...
give it time florida fans still hasnt reacted to my two proposals yet im sure it will spark some debate

again hickey for 2nd pick

hickey lotki gagne and 2nd in 14 for fleischmann and Ellerby

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12-13-2012, 07:11 PM
  #18
Dr Quincy
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Hickey maybe slower to develope then we would like i wouldn't say hes a total bust yet. He has not seen any nhl action and i think its still to early to judge him. The would be the season to let him get some nhl time and see what he looks like. I think fair value on him is a 2nd. He was close to making the team last year amoung the last cuts i seem to remember.
I think the other guy was right. A 3rd. Maybe a late 2nd if there was a GM who really liked him. I see a lot of Kings fans in LA or Canada or even Europe on here saying, "Hickey is NHL ready." I live close to Manchester (and Portland and when Lowell had a team, Lowell). I go to a bunch of AHL games. Take it for what it's worth but I've actually seen Hickey play a decent amount in person. He isn't top 2 or maybe even top 3 on the Monarchs IMO. Personally I think Bodnarchuk is playing better, and I think Muzzin is playing better. I'd also argue that Deslauriers is too. I wouldn't be surprised if Muzzin, Deslauriers and Kolomatis all end up playing more NHL games in their careers.

I wouldn't expect anything more than a 3rd, or a similar stalled prospect.

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12-13-2012, 07:37 PM
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I think the other guy was right. A 3rd. Maybe a late 2nd if there was a GM who really liked him. I see a lot of Kings fans in LA or Canada or even Europe on here saying, "Hickey is NHL ready." I live close to Manchester (and Portland and when Lowell had a team, Lowell). I go to a bunch of AHL games. Take it for what it's worth but I've actually seen Hickey play a decent amount in person. He isn't top 2 or maybe even top 3 on the Monarchs IMO. Personally I think Bodnarchuk is playing better, and I think Muzzin is playing better. I'd also argue that Deslauriers is too. I wouldn't be surprised if Muzzin, Deslauriers and Kolomatis all end up playing more NHL games in their careers.

I wouldn't expect anything more than a 3rd, or a similar stalled prospect.
well i will agree with you on the fact that bodnarchuk is playing better ( i seem to recall you saying he wasn't a nhl defenseman in another thread but whatever) Muzzin right now is struggling and most king fans would rather see him sat out then play. Hickey has played in mancheaster the longest out of all defenseman there. He has had injuries and that slowed his delvelopment imo. If there was a nhl season right now i would bet money he would be on the team.

Now as you said a gm who would like him maybe worth a late second. Well since the orignal person is a florida fan and said he liked him i ll stick to the asking price of a second

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12-13-2012, 07:46 PM
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etherialone
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
I think the other guy was right. A 3rd. Maybe a late 2nd if there was a GM who really liked him. I see a lot of Kings fans in LA or Canada or even Europe on here saying, "Hickey is NHL ready." I live close to Manchester (and Portland and when Lowell had a team, Lowell). I go to a bunch of AHL games. Take it for what it's worth but I've actually seen Hickey play a decent amount in person. He isn't top 2 or maybe even top 3 on the Monarchs IMO. Personally I think Bodnarchuk is playing better, and I think Muzzin is playing better. I'd also argue that Deslauriers is too. I wouldn't be surprised if Muzzin, Deslauriers and Kolomatis all end up playing more NHL games in their careers.

I wouldn't expect anything more than a 3rd, or a similar stalled prospect.


If we are going by the short sample size of this season to date you have to add in that Hickey has been working through a hip pointer that slowed him down for a couple of weeks, other than that Hickey has been a great young D prospect for the past two seasons. The trouble with him is that we are stupid deep and he isn't as good as Doughty, Martinez or Voynov or he would be on the Kings (or would have been last season at some point or if there were a season this season).

That said Martinez is a great second grouping PMD who is coming into his own and Voynov has better O upside than TH at this point.

Hickey is a rd pairing PMD who is sound in his own end but he is also young and has gotten better every year since he has been in the AHL culminating with an excellent season last year. I am not calling him a great pick but he isn't a bust just yet and will be an NHL dman sooner or later.

Hickey is playing better again and has been the past bit so I wouldn't call him a stalled prospect at all. He is expendable and he is NHL ready. I get to see all but a couple of Monarchs games every year and am one of Hickeys biggest critics typically but his value is still worthy of a 31 to 39 pick in next years draft and probably a bit more.

Muzzin is a bigger tougher prospect and also NHL ready and a good pmd. He is having a slow start to this season but has begun turning things around lately too. He is worth as much as Hickey and visa versa imo.

I like Deslauriers Forbort Bodnarchuk and Gravel as much or maybe even more than Muzzin and Hickey but that is a topic for another thread.

The Kings are logjammed with NHL caliber Dmen and a couple who are NHL ready that are going to sit in the AHL for another season (unless this season doesn't happen) waiting to play. They can all be had for a price but the reason that they aren't in the NHL has more to do with the Kings D depth then anything else.

I would also add that Hickey just turned 23 and is still young for a D prospect and so is Muzzin. We aren't talking about 25/26 yo's who have run their course with their teams and must get a change of scenery to have a shot.

Doughty and co are really bucking the system and bringing down the average age of young dmen in the NHL. Most pundits agree that D men don't really start coming into their own until their 26 to 27 years old at the very earliest. Not empirical evidence but still...


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Old
12-13-2012, 07:50 PM
  #21
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well i will agree with you on the fact that bodnarchuk is playing better ( i seem to recall you saying he wasn't a nhl defenseman in another thread but whatever) Muzzin right now is struggling and most king fans would rather see him sat out then play. Hickey has played in mancheaster the longest out of all defenseman there. He has had injuries and that slowed his delvelopment imo. If there was a nhl season right now i would bet money he would be on the team.

Now as you said a gm who would like him maybe worth a late second. Well since the orignal person is a florida fan and said he liked him i ll stick to the asking price of a second
You are right, I'm not high on Bodnarchuk and wasn't when he was on the Bruins. Look, Hickey may prove me wrong some day. I've been wrong about prospects before. I just find it odd that a lot of Kings fans who never actually see the guy play keep on saying he's NHL ready. IMO he isn't.

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12-13-2012, 07:57 PM
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You are right, I'm not high on Bodnarchuk and wasn't when he was on the Bruins. Look, Hickey may prove me wrong some day. I've been wrong about prospects before. I just find it odd that a lot of Kings fans who never actually see the guy play keep on saying he's NHL ready. IMO he isn't.
Well i may or may not have seen hickey play as much as you but i find it odd that u assume that kings fans havnt seen hickey play. May i ask why you think this.

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12-14-2012, 08:45 AM
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rajuabju
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Hickey maybe slower to develope then we would like i wouldn't say hes a total bust yet. He has not seen any nhl action and i think its still to early to judge him. The would be the season to let him get some nhl time and see what he looks like. I think fair value on him is a 2nd. He was close to making the team last year amoung the last cuts i seem to remember.
Hickey hasnt seen any NHL action because he isnt good enough to see NHL action. There's a reason we've called up other D instead of him. Even when we traded Johnson away, instead of even giving Hickey a remote shot, we went with Martinez.

Hickey may get his chance at some point. But I am willing to bet his ultimate career will never justify his selection at #4, nor will his career be with the Kings organization.

If we could get a 2nd for him, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Even a 3rd would be enough. We have other D in our system like Forbort, Deslaurius, Muzzin, who I am more optimistic about.

IMO, the Kings need to "thin out" their mid-level prospect pool and get more picks. Because our NHL team is set, with many of the key pieces signed long-term. So available roster spots over the next few years will be limited, and those limited spots will be filled by either FA signings, trades, or our top-tier prospects.

So any prospect stuck in our lower rungs that has value but is unlikely to see NHL time with us should be moved for future picks to help restock our pool at the right time.

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12-14-2012, 08:48 AM
  #24
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As a FL fan, I disagree with the OP completely. The team drafted a young offensive d-man this past yr in Matheson. He's been playing pretty well so far at BC on the top pairing. Given a few yrs, he should be able to contribute offensively in the NHL. Also, the Panthers are not desparate now because they have Campbell signed for another 4+ yrs. Robak should be able to provide offense on the backend probably sooner than Hickey would (Robak is outscoring him in the AHL).

But if it was for Hickey, the most I'd give up is probably John McFarland. I dont really feel that its as much of a need as ursavolta does and so I wouldnt give up anything of major value like a 2nd round pick. Though I guess McFarland is a former 2nd round pick so it should be equivalent but like Hickey, McFarland has struggled to stay healthy and take the next step as a pro. Seems like a fair deal.

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12-14-2012, 11:44 AM
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KingCanadain1976
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Hickey hasnt seen any NHL action because he isnt good enough to see NHL action. There's a reason we've called up other D instead of him. Even when we traded Johnson away, instead of even giving Hickey a remote shot, we went with Martinez.

Hickey may get his chance at some point. But I am willing to bet his ultimate career will never justify his selection at #4, nor will his career be with the Kings organization.

If we could get a 2nd for him, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Even a 3rd would be enough. We have other D in our system like Forbort, Deslaurius, Muzzin, who I am more optimistic about.

IMO, the Kings need to "thin out" their mid-level prospect pool and get more picks. Because our NHL team is set, with many of the key pieces signed long-term. So available roster spots over the next few years will be limited, and those limited spots will be filled by either FA signings, trades, or our top-tier prospects.

So any prospect stuck in our lower rungs that has value but is unlikely to see NHL time with us should be moved for future picks to help restock our pool at the right time.


I disagree the only reason hes not in the nhl is drew slava and alec are better options as our 3 offensive defenseman. As i pointed out before he was the last person cut at the last couple of training camps. Does that mean hes not a nhl defenseman no all it means is he wasnt good enuff to make the kings. I am still willing to bet if there a season this year he would get a shot. I would also bet with alec injuryed right now he would have been called up to replace him. Last year the kings enjoyed realtively a healthy season by all defenseman something that can change at any moment. I will agree that maybe he isn't going to be a lifetime king but nor should we give him away for next to nothing A second is a fair value for a defenseman with his upside.

As for ur thining out of propects i can see moving some of the defenseman since he have alot of ready ones but the chance of injury forces me to say be careful on how many you move. I also disagree with your mid level propects evaluation i feel we have alot of nhl players in our mist and our system is amoungest the best in the league. We shouldnt just trade them to trade them. we need to keep getting peices to replace others as needed. I favour leaving a roster spot or two for rookies to prove they can play in the nhl so then you can max out there value in trades so this "bust" situation doesnt occur again.

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