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Rielly ranked #1 of 2012 draft class in TSN (Craig Button) Top 30 NHL Prospects

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12-24-2012, 08:29 AM
  #451
Bomber0104
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
What I hate about this is that Leaf fans are getting heat for the media's hype of Rielly. Sure a few are being idiots, but it's the talking heads that are making the comparisons to hall of fame players.
I've seen more than just a few posters here directly comparing Rielly to hall-of-famers.

The most popular one is Leetch, followed by Coffey, then Orr. I've seen a few Bourques as well.

And then there's some posters that don't directly compare but are highly suggestive of it. As we see in this thread, apparently Morgan's "idol" is Bobby Orr. Why even say it unless you are hinting that he is modelling his game after the hall-of-famer?

Reminds me of the days when Schenn was an up and coming Weber-Foote-Stevens clone.

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12-24-2012, 08:47 AM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Reminds me of the days when Schenn was an up and coming Weber-Foote-Stevens clone.
Anyone suggesting that obviously didn't know what they were talking about. All 3 of them were far more offensively gifted in junior than Schenn. Ironically the best point producer in junior was Foote, who was the least productive offensively at the NHL level.

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12-24-2012, 09:08 AM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
I've seen more than just a few posters here directly comparing Rielly to hall-of-famers.

The most popular one is Leetch, followed by Coffey, then Orr. I've seen a few Bourques as well.
Rielly has incredible skating ability, so I don't know what the problem is comparing him to Leetch et al. Doesn't mean he will rise to their level. It's just a fair comparison for context purposes. One could just as easily compare him to Bryan Fogarty but while many posters might understand that comparison, many others would not. One would pray that is not his path.

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12-24-2012, 10:31 AM
  #454
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Originally Posted by LeafsRReady View Post
Rielly has incredible skating ability, so I don't know what the problem is comparing him to Leetch et al. Doesn't mean he will rise to their level. It's just a fair comparison for context purposes. One could just as easily compare him to Bryan Fogarty but while many posters might understand that comparison, many others would not. One would pray that is not his path.
you pretty much explained the problem with comparing him to someone like leetch. just because he's apparently a great skater, doesn't mean he'll be anything like brian leetch.

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12-24-2012, 10:34 AM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Bobby Orr, Paul Coffey, Brian Leetch, and Scott Niedermayer (am I missing any other hall-of-famer comparisons?) would have performed much better in my opinion. I've seen no reports of these NHL hall-of-famers being inconsistent against kids their own age.
that's true. if he's the prospect he's hyped to be, he will dominate this tournament against kids his own age.

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12-24-2012, 10:40 AM
  #456
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
that's true. if he's the prospect he's hyped to be, he will dominate this tournament against kids his own age.
So far he did in the Subway super series, however he needs to work his defensive game to become a two way player. I like offensive defensemen but I always expect defense to be right up there. He seems like a hard worker so I hope he can achieve this and from an interview in recent times he's working on it

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12-24-2012, 10:57 AM
  #457
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
I've seen more than just a few posters here directly comparing Rielly to hall-of-famers.

The most popular one is Leetch, followed by Coffey, then Orr. I've seen a few Bourques as well.

And then there's some posters that don't directly compare but are highly suggestive of it. As we see in this thread, apparently Morgan's "idol" is Bobby Orr. Why even say it unless you are hinting that he is modelling his game after the hall-of-famer?

Reminds me of the days when Schenn was an up and coming Weber-Foote-Stevens clone.

Reminds me of Leetch stylewise...is that a direct comparison? If so, then so be it.

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12-24-2012, 11:23 AM
  #458
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you pretty much explained the problem with comparing him to someone like leetch. just because he's apparently a great skater, doesn't mean he'll be anything like brian leetch.
Wow - you won't even give him that much. One thing I'm sure of is that if Rielly can't skate like Leetch et al, then he will not rise to their level. It's kind of like a prerequisite.

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12-24-2012, 04:12 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by LeafsRReady View Post
Wow - you won't even give him that much. One thing I'm sure of is that if Rielly can't skate like Leetch et al, then he will not rise to their level. It's kind of like a prerequisite.
no, just because people here say he can skate like leetch, coffey, and niedermayer, doesn't mean he actually can. i haven't seen very much of him myself.

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12-24-2012, 04:26 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
I've seen more than just a few posters here directly comparing Rielly to hall-of-famers.

The most popular one is Leetch, followed by Coffey, then Orr. I've seen a few Bourques as well.

And then there's some posters that don't directly compare but are highly suggestive of it. As we see in this thread, apparently Morgan's "idol" is Bobby Orr. Why even say it unless you are hinting that he is modelling his game after the hall-of-famer?

Reminds me of the days when Schenn was an up and coming Weber-Foote-Stevens clone.
And Galchenyuk gets compared to Sundin and Hossa and Jagr.

And Yakupov gets compared to Bure

And Nugent-Hopkins gets compared to Gretzky

These are frames of reference to style of play. Stop being so ********.

As for Schenn, he sucks, and some (like me) were comparing him to Luke Richardson and Bryan Allen...

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12-24-2012, 04:30 PM
  #461
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As for Schenn, he sucks, and some (like me) were comparing him to Luke Richardson and Bryan Allen...
strictly as a frame of reference for his style of play?

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12-24-2012, 04:33 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by LeafsRReady View Post
Rielly has incredible skating ability, so I don't know what the problem is comparing him to Leetch et al. Doesn't mean he will rise to their level. It's just a fair comparison for context purposes. One could just as easily compare him to Bryan Fogarty but while many posters might understand that comparison, many others would not. One would pray that is not his path.
I'm just going to say that is it within the realm of reality that a prospect like Rielly, who is drafted fifth overall could actually be Brian Leetch.

I find it kind of sad that so many Leaf fans have been beaten down so much with this franchise that they couldn't possibly fathom that we might have secured an elite talent, one who might one day actually fulfill that purpose and have a stellar career. It's so hilarious that whenever we get anyone into this organization, the only realistic upside is second paring, botttom six.

All the while, fans of organizations like Detroit will routinely suggest that a 24 year old AHL defenseman like Brendan Smith is the future of defense and that Ryan Sproul is the next Shea Weber.

Holy **** people, allow yourselves some room for optimism.

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12-24-2012, 04:34 PM
  #463
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strictly as a frame of reference for his style of play?
Upside too. Sue me.

If they can play like Brian Leetch, they're probably not going to be slugs.

Every fanbase calls their first, second and third round prospects future first line scoring, first pairing defensemen, and franchise workhorse goalies. Why can't we?

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12-24-2012, 04:55 PM
  #464
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that's true. if he's the prospect he's hyped to be, he will dominate this tournament against kids his own age.
Stamkos?

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12-24-2012, 05:06 PM
  #465
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Upside too. Sue me.

If they can play like Brian Leetch, they're probably not going to be slugs.

Every fanbase calls their first, second and third round prospects future first line scoring, first pairing defensemen, and franchise workhorse goalies. Why can't we?
Because we're Toronto fans. We can't have anything nice.

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12-24-2012, 05:25 PM
  #466
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Originally Posted by LeafsRReady View Post
Stamkos?
Phil Kessel himself had a terrible WJC the year after he was drafted. Seems like he turned into a useful player.

PS, I love how we're talking about Rielly and the WJC in terms of it all being a failure before the tournament has even started...

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12-24-2012, 06:17 PM
  #467
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Upside too. Sue me.

If they can play like Brian Leetch, they're probably not going to be slugs.
just asking the question. you made a point of saying comparisons of certain kids to past superstars are strictly for reference of style of play.

then you pointed out that you didn't like the comparison of schenn to stevens/weber/foote, but you thought he was more of a richardson/allen. that indicated to me that you were talking both style and upside potential.

it would be great if people would clarify exactly what kind of comparisons they're making. big difference in comparing style and comparing upside.

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Every fanbase calls their first, second and third round prospects future first line scoring, first pairing defensemen, and franchise workhorse goalies. Why can't we?
i don't think there can be any accusation of an overall lack of positive hype among leafs fans.

i think posters on this leafs board do a fine job of predicting big things for most prospects. i suspect moreso than most other fansbases.

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12-24-2012, 06:25 PM
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Phil Kessel himself had a terrible WJC the year after he was drafted. Seems like he turned into a useful player.

PS, I love how we're talking about Rielly and the WJC in terms of it all being a failure before the tournament has even started...
again, i see two sides here.

i don't see anyone talking in terms of rielly's wjc being a failure already. i'm fully expecting him to be great. i've not seen him very much, so i'm basing this on what i've read about him. i've heard nothing but superlatives used to describe his game, and he's among the very elite nhl prospects his age. given that, he should be great in a tournament against players his own age. no reason to believe he won't be.

but here you are pointing out that kessel had a bad wjc (and stamkos too), and obviously went on to be a great nhl player. its almost as if you're expecting rielly to do the same. or at least setting the stage to argue he's still going to be a great nhler, should he disappoint in this tournament.

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12-24-2012, 06:39 PM
  #469
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He's number one, that's why he was picked at #5.
The old "He was drafted # 5 so he'll always be worse than the first four drafted and better than the 205 drafted after him" syndrome...

Incurable for some...

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12-24-2012, 06:42 PM
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Great list IMO

Rielly should have gone #1 overall
I see.

You did not want the Leafs drafting him.

Or you wanted the Leafs to finish even worse to get a better chance of winning the lottery.

Nice to know where you stand.

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12-24-2012, 06:55 PM
  #471
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That doesn't even make sense.

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12-24-2012, 07:41 PM
  #472
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just asking the question. you made a point of saying comparisons of certain kids to past superstars are strictly for reference of style of play.

then you pointed out that you didn't like the comparison of schenn to stevens/weber/foote, but you thought he was more of a richardson/allen. that indicated to me that you were talking both style and upside potential.

it would be great if people would clarify exactly what kind of comparisons they're making. big difference in comparing style and comparing upside.
No, I didn't say they were 'strictly' for a reference of the style of play, but if you have a player who has the abilities of a Brian Leetch, chances are he isn't a 7th defenseman and you have an idea of upside and what he can be.

What the comparison does not guarantee is the prospect in question ends up having a Hall of Fame career.

That said, when I hear Wings fans casually talking about Ryan Sproul as the next Shea Weber and nobody bats an eye and then people go bat**** insane at the suggestion that a top five overall pick in the Leafs organization has superstar potential, I take exception to people assuming that a lowered expectation is somehow more realistic.

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12-24-2012, 07:50 PM
  #473
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again, i see two sides here.

i don't see anyone talking in terms of rielly's wjc being a failure already. i'm fully expecting him to be great. i've not seen him very much, so i'm basing this on what i've read about him. i've heard nothing but superlatives used to describe his game, and he's among the very elite nhl prospects his age. given that, he should be great in a tournament against players his own age. no reason to believe he won't be.

but here you are pointing out that kessel had a bad wjc (and stamkos too), and obviously went on to be a great nhl player. its almost as if you're expecting rielly to do the same. or at least setting the stage to argue he's still going to be a great nhler, should he disappoint in this tournament.
There's a better chance of Morgan Rielly becoming a footnote in the Leafs long history of draft failures as he does having his number honoured at the ACC rafters, let's get that out of the way first.

The statement is a response to this: "that's true. if he's the prospect he's hyped to be, he will dominate this tournament against kids his own age", which basically says Rielly isn't a top prospect unless he shows it in the next two weeks.

And I simply don't see the WJC being the indicator of a prospect's value because as we've seen, there's plenty of WJC participants who suck and go on to be great NHLers, and WJC superstars who were never good prospects and didn't become good NHLers.

Rielly's evaluation as a prospect and ultimately as a pro will occur over a much longer time frame.

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12-24-2012, 08:35 PM
  #474
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I'm expecting an all star defender.

I'll be disappointed if he isn't the best player selected in the 2012 draft.

Burke said he was the best player in this draft.

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12-24-2012, 09:10 PM
  #475
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No, I didn't say they were 'strictly' for a reference of the style of play, but if you have a player who has the abilities of a Brian Leetch, chances are he isn't a 7th defenseman and you have an idea of upside and what he can be.
you said it was a frame of reference for style of play. that's a lot different than saying someone has the abilities of a brian leetch.

there's a kid here who plays in the jr.b league. he's a smooth, fast, defenceman. gets lots of assists. smart player. plays like brian leetch. but he's never getting out of the local jr.b league. doesn't have the ability of a brian leetch.

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That said, when I hear Wings fans casually talking about Ryan Sproul as the next Shea Weber and nobody bats an eye and then people go bat**** insane at the suggestion that a top five overall pick in the Leafs organization has superstar potential, I take exception to people assuming that a lowered expectation is somehow more realistic.
i don't follow the wings board, and i honestly don't know who ryan sproul is, but i think i'd bat an eye if i saw him casually talked about as the next weber.

can you blame leafs fans for thinking a lower expectation is more realistic? is that really something to take exception to, given the history of hyped prospects we've seen ultimately fail? if not being skeptical, at least wanting to see much more evidence (as you say yourself), before claiming him a potential superstar?

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