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[NYM/TOR] Dickey/Thole/Nickeas for D'Arnaud/Syndergaard/Buck/Becerra (done deal)

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Old
12-17-2012, 05:58 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
It was a very steep price to pay. I don't like the move personally, but at the same time I'm psyched about being able to watch an elite knuckleball pitcher for years to come.
How can you not like the move? A team that has been at the bottom of the AL East for years sees an oppurtunity to snag the division so they go all in and go for it? Some fans can only wish they had such management. I'd be pissed if I lost d'Arnaud too but you have to look at it from a different perspective sometimes.

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12-17-2012, 06:04 PM
  #302
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Along with Syndergaard, I believe D'Arnaud can be an elite catcher in the mold of a Matt Weiters. But his health concerns are pretty alarming.

Dickey's numbers may take a hit from not playing against the inferior NL East all the team, but I think he's a good fit in the dome.

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12-17-2012, 06:13 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
This is an awful trade from the Jays perspective if true. Overpayed way too much. Although it gives us a great chance at winning the WC.
Isn't that the point....?

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12-17-2012, 06:17 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Along with Syndergaard, I believe D'Arnaud can be an elite catcher in the mold of a Matt Weiters. But his health concerns are pretty alarming.

Dickey's numbers may take a hit from not playing against the inferior NL East all the team, but I think he's a good fit in the dome.
Anybody is going to take a hit going from NL to AL, especially the Al East.

But good is good, so he'll be a good fit. No wind in a dome, that could be interesting.

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Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
How can you not like the move? A team that has been at the bottom of the AL East for years sees an oppurtunity to snag the division so they go all in and go for it? Some fans can only wish they had such management. I'd be pissed if I lost d'Arnaud too but you have to look at it from a different perspective sometimes.
It's not a bad move, but there's a huge risk in going all in.

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12-17-2012, 06:21 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
How can you not like the move? A team that has been at the bottom of the AL East for years sees an oppurtunity to snag the division so they go all in and go for it? Some fans can only wish they had such management. I'd be pissed if I lost d'Arnaud too but you have to look at it from a different perspective sometimes.
I love Dickey. I love the different dimension he adds to the rotation. I think he'll be a great fit for the clubhouse and the city in general. Not to mention it gives us a real solid opportunity to play some meaningful baseball in september/october. I just don't like the price we had to pay. Not to mention the risk involved.

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12-17-2012, 06:26 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
I love Dickey. I love the different dimension he adds to the rotation. I think he'll be a great fit for the clubhouse and the city in general. Not to mention it gives us a real solid opportunity to play some meaningful baseball in september/october. I just don't like the price we had to pay. Not to mention the risk involved.
Haven't been in the playoffs for 20 years and you're *****ing about a couple of prospects who may or may not turn out?

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12-17-2012, 06:32 PM
  #307
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Haven't been in the playoffs for 20 years and you're *****ing about a couple of prospects who may or may not turn out?
Enough with this stuff already. We are all excited about Dickey and the rest of the acquired pieces. It is perfectly alright to be concerned about what we gave up.

Most annalists, reporters and off the record executives have said we overpaid but even still it was probably a good move.

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12-17-2012, 06:47 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
The Mets now boast a stacked abundance of high-end pitching talent.

Niese-Wheeler-Harvey-Syndergaard-Gee.

Filthy.

Great job by Sandy, I would have faith in the Mets if they weren't owned by the Wilpons.
Would you prefer the wealth of talent in prospects, or in your major league rotation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Along with Syndergaard, I believe D'Arnaud can be an elite catcher in the mold of a Matt Weiters. But his health concerns are pretty alarming.

Dickey's numbers may take a hit from not playing against the inferior NL East all the team, but I think he's a good fit in the dome.
Wieters is a good catcher, but he hasn't lived up to expectations. If d'Arnaud ever reaches Wieters current level, the Mets will have done very well for themselves. Syndergaard is definitely a good looking kid, but hes 20 years old... I read an article on all these top pitching prospects; most of which I'd never even heard of.. If Syndergaard put up last years numbers in AAA, I'd be very worried... But he's still got a very long road ahead of him... Baseball history is loaded with hard throwing kids with big upside who never amount to anything.

The future may change this based on their performance, but right now the Jays are heavily favored in this deal; they just acquired the reigning Cy Young winner and didn't give up a single major league player.




Dickey's numbers may not be as great in this division, but they won't need to be - the Jays own one of the best offenses in the game, far better then that of the Mets.

The only stat I care about is W's. If he wins 18-20 games with ERA at 4.5, we'll be very happy.

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12-17-2012, 06:52 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Would you prefer the wealth of talent in prospects, or in your major league rotation?


.
Obviously in our major league rotation, but have you seen the Mets the past few years? We aren't in win now mode. So of course we are excited to have some solid pitching prospects.

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12-17-2012, 06:58 PM
  #310
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All I can say is that it's a good day to be a Jays fan. In a perfect world the trade works out well for both clubs. One club is in a win-now mode, and the other is not. That's the reality of it all. Good trade, bad trade, all depends on who're asking.

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12-17-2012, 06:58 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
I love Dickey. I love the different dimension he adds to the rotation. I think he'll be a great fit for the clubhouse and the city in general. Not to mention it gives us a real solid opportunity to play some meaningful baseball in september/october. I just don't like the price we had to pay. Not to mention the risk involved.
I felt the same way, and part of me still does... But at the end of the day, we acquired a Cy Young winner and just signed him to and AAV of 10m for the next 3 years..


If he flops, then criticize the deal... Right now we shipped away 2 kids who may or may not ever even be big league players, for one of the best pitchers in baseball over the past 3 years..


I think a lot of this has to do with his bread and butter being a trick pitch.. If he was a 30 year old conventional pitcher with the same numbers over the past 3 years, we'd be jumping for joy and the Mets would likely be firing half of their front office.

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12-17-2012, 06:59 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Along with Syndergaard, I believe D'Arnaud can be an elite catcher in the mold of a Matt Weiters. But his health concerns are pretty alarming.

Dickey's numbers may take a hit from not playing against the inferior NL East all the team, but I think he's a good fit in the dome.
Thats true, but its worth noting the AL East is fading in strength a fair bit. Especially in hitting.

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12-17-2012, 07:07 PM
  #313
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Obviously in our major league rotation, but have you seen the Mets the past few years? We aren't in win now mode. So of course we are excited to have some solid pitching prospects.
On the contrary, thats why Jays fans are so excited.. We've stock piled a bunch of good prospects and finally parlayed them into something that will help us now.


It was always about building for the future. Alex had been promising that he'd strike when the time was right, but most were skeptical as to if and when this would happen... Now it has and most people are very excited.


Theres an opportunity for a power shift in the division, and most are happy that AA and ownership are going for it. Even if this window passes, we can no longer say they didn't try. The money is finally out from under the mattress and being put on the field.

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12-17-2012, 07:20 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
On the contrary, thats why Jays fans are so excited.. We've stock piled a bunch of good prospects and finally parlayed them into something that will help us now.


It was always about building for the future. Alex had been promising that he'd strike when the time was right, but most were skeptical as to if and when this would happen... Now it has and most people are very excited.


Theres an opportunity for a power shift in the division, and most are happy that AA and ownership are going for it. Even if this window passes, we can no longer say they didn't try. The money is finally out from under the mattress and being put on the field.
I absolutely agree, that's why I think this is a good trade for both teams. Was just putting my 2 cents in on the prospects/MLB ready Mets comment.

I am a big time Yankee hater, so I love any team that gives them a run for their money. Plus, you got Dickey and Reyes. Go Jays!

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12-17-2012, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Would you prefer the wealth of talent in prospects, or in your major league rotation?
Depends on context.

If I had the 5 best pitching prospects, then yeah, I'd rather have them.

Also I remember the Giants had a couple of unproven prospects named Cain and Lincecum in their system. The Yankees on the other hand had the proven and established Chien-Ming Wang, Carl Pavano and Mike Mussina. Gee I wonder which one I should've taken.

Quote:
Wieters is a good catcher, but he hasn't lived up to expectations. If d'Arnaud ever reaches Wieters current level, the Mets will have done very well for themselves. Syndergaard is definitely a good looking kid, but hes 20 years old... I read an article on all these top pitching prospects; most of which I'd never even heard of.. If Syndergaard put up last years numbers in AAA, I'd be very worried... But he's still got a very long road ahead of him... Baseball history is loaded with hard throwing kids with big upside who never amount to anything.
Wieters even if he hasn't lived up to expectations is an elite catcher and he's still really young.

Syndergaard has nasty stuff and I think he can be an impact pitcher.

Quote:
The future may change this based on their performance, but right now the Jays are heavily favored in this deal; they just acquired the reigning Cy Young winner and didn't give up a single major league player.
Not even close. That's like saying the Royal won the James Shields trade. They may have the best player, but they gave up far too much upside in return.

Quote:
Dickey's numbers may not be as great in this division, but they won't need to be - the Jays own one of the best offenses in the game, far better then that of the Mets.

The only stat I care about is W's. If he wins 18-20 games with ERA at 4.5, we'll be very happy.
lol.


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12-17-2012, 07:58 PM
  #316
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Theres no guarentees in anything. d'Arnaud has had hip and knee injuries which can be a big blow to a catcher.. Syndergaard is 20 years old and hasn't even made it out of single A ball, he still has a long road ahead.

D'Arnaud has had a back and knee injuries. Back injury was back in 2010 and has been fine since. Knee injury was a freak injury, he was landed on as he slid into 2nd base. That's like saying you wouldnt want Buster Posey on your team because he suffered a serious knee injury 18 months ago when Cousins slid into him at the home plate. And no I'm not comparing D'Arnaud to Posey, just the type of injuries. Both were freak inuries.

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12-17-2012, 08:15 PM
  #317
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What are the odds his knee messes up again? Should it be a problem going forward?

How many guys were involved in a deal twice for former Cy Young winners before they even played a game?

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12-17-2012, 08:21 PM
  #318
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D'Arnaud has had a back and knee injuries. Back injury was back in 2010 and has been fine since. Knee injury was a freak injury, he was landed on as he slid into 2nd base. That's like saying you wouldnt want Buster Posey on your team because he suffered a serious knee injury 18 months ago when Cousins slid into him at the home plate. And no I'm not comparing D'Arnaud to Posey, just the type of injuries. Both were freak inuries.
I'm a d'Arnaud fan but since 2010 hes had a back injury, knee injury and 2 concussions.

I think its fair at this point to be concerned if he can holdup longterm at catcher.

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12-17-2012, 08:24 PM
  #319
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Of course there have been numerous trades loaded with potential that don't pan out. Look at Cliff Lee going to the Rangers. Justin Smoak was thought to be huge. Dud. Matt LaPorta was going to be great for the Indians in exchange for Sabathia, but he wasn't.

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12-17-2012, 08:33 PM
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Of course there have been numerous trades loaded with potential that don't pan out. Look at Cliff Lee going to the Rangers. Justin Smoak was thought to be huge. Dud. Matt LaPorta was going to be great for the Indians in exchange for Sabathia, but he wasn't.
And there are many other cases of traded prospects working out.

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12-17-2012, 08:39 PM
  #321
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Trade Buck one more time lets see if he can break the record for most teams in a season!

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12-17-2012, 08:40 PM
  #322
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And there are many other cases of traded prospects working out.
Just look at Dan Haren, who became a serviceable ace for 3 clubs. Daric Barton wasn't that bad either. Look at what a dud Mulder became.

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12-17-2012, 08:56 PM
  #323
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Enough with this stuff already. We are all excited about Dickey and the rest of the acquired pieces. It is perfectly alright to be concerned about what we gave up.

Most annalists, reporters and off the record executives have said we overpaid but even still it was probably a good move.
Really i havent heard many reporters say we overpaid for him, usually their explaining to fans why the high price... Some fans however do feel that way.

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12-17-2012, 08:58 PM
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Really i havent heard many reporters say we overpaid for him, usually their explaining to fans why the high price... Some fans however do feel that way.
Ken Rosenthal is one example of a guy who said it was an overpayment but still overall a good move.

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12-17-2012, 09:30 PM
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It's a great move for both teams. The Mets are in a long term time frame. Toronto is in a short term time frame.

I'm willing to say the Jays are a 100 game winner.

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