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[NYM/TOR] Dickey/Thole/Nickeas for D'Arnaud/Syndergaard/Buck/Becerra (done deal)

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Old
12-17-2012, 09:35 PM
  #326
Marc the Habs Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
I'm willing to say the Jays are a 100 game winner.
Maybe if everything goes their way.

Winning 100 in the AL East is a very hard thing to do. There's not going to be a horrible 60 win team to beat up on.

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12-17-2012, 09:40 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Just look at Dan Haren, who became a serviceable ace for 3 clubs. Daric Barton wasn't that bad either. Look at what a dud Mulder became.
Obviously theres cases where prospects turn out great and theres lots where they flop, it could go either way but not sure you can mock the best world series odds in the mlb

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12-17-2012, 09:42 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Woll Smoth View Post
Isn't that the point....?
This is HF where winning is the second most important thing after fantasizing about prospects and pretending about winning 5 years from now.

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Old
12-17-2012, 10:26 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Woll Smoth View Post
Isn't that the point....?
Yea, that's basically what I meant - the loss of the prospects is made up by the improvement in the team.

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12-17-2012, 11:14 PM
  #330
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Jays haven't won 100 games in their franchise history, closest they've won is 99 back in 1985 (first AL East title)

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12-17-2012, 11:20 PM
  #331
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obviously very small sample size, but for people posing the can he duplicate in AL East question:

R.A. Dickey in six starts against American League East teams since 2010, including three against the Yankees: 42 innings, 20 hits, eight earned runs, 45 strikeouts and 11 walks, and a 1.71 ERA

its a good start for him to build off of lol

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12-17-2012, 11:27 PM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Just look at Dan Haren, who became a serviceable ace for 3 clubs. Daric Barton wasn't that bad either. Look at what a dud Mulder became.
Daric Barton would be a great 1B if he was allowed to have his own DH.....

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12-18-2012, 12:27 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by darko View Post
Thole is Dickey's catcher. Makes sense to include him considering Arencibia is a starter for Jays.
stick Thole in the 9 hole and hope he doesnt produce to many automatic outs.

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12-18-2012, 02:42 AM
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Just look at Dan Haren, who became a serviceable ace for 3 clubs. Daric Barton wasn't that bad either. Look at what a dud Mulder became.
Of course we won the World Series with him, so I would do that trade 10/10 times. Haren would be nice to have, but Barton would have been pointless. Mulder also pitched very well in 2005, almost taking us to another World Series.

The whole point is that sometimes you need to trade prospects for the chance to win now. Syndergaard is great, but Bautista is 32. Edwin Encarnacion is 29. Who knows how much longer they'll be viable. Syndergaard is years away, and the Blue Jays still have great young pitchers in Aaron Sanchez, Daniel Norris, Roberto Osuna, and Matthew Smoral. The Red Sox are a mess, the Yankees have injury issues, no catcher, and lost a lot of hitting from Swisher, the Orioles outperformed their projected record by many metrics, and the Rays traded away one of their best pitchers for an outfielder who may or may not have an effect this year. The time to do it was now.

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12-18-2012, 02:58 AM
  #335
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Wait. Our minor leaguer we gave up is NICKEAS???? HAHAHAHAHA. How did we get ANYTHING of value back for him (let alone an 18 year old import prospect)?

Also, deal supposedly went down like this:

AA offered Td'A. Sandy said no and it stalled for over a week. Sandy called back and said Syndergaard would make him think about a deal. And here we are today.

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12-18-2012, 03:10 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
It's a great move for both teams. The Mets are in a long term time frame. Toronto is in a short term time frame.

I'm willing to say the Jays are a 100 game winner.

Yeah I dont buy that. They'll be a good team and probably end up winning 90-95 games tops. 95 should be enough for the division however and 90 will get them 1 of the wild card spots.

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12-18-2012, 03:13 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Maybe if everything goes their way.

Winning 100 in the AL East is a very hard thing to do. There's not going to be a horrible 60 win team to beat up on.

Only 2 AL teams have won 100 games or more over the last 10 years. Angels (once) and Yankees (3 times). It's hard winning 100 games regardless how stacked your team is, that's what makes baseball fun. I mean look at 2011 Red Sox.

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12-18-2012, 04:52 AM
  #338
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Regardless of the price, this trade gives the Jays arguably the deepest rotation in baseball, with a substantial amount of high-end talent as well. If Romero bounces back the Jays could have 5 top-3 pitchers in their lineup

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Old
12-18-2012, 06:25 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by darko View Post
Yeah I dont buy that. They'll be a good team and probably end up winning 90-95 games tops. 95 should be enough for the division however and 90 will get them 1 of the wild card spots.
how can you not buy that? we've got the pitching staff in baseball and certinly at the very least the AL. combine that with the best lineup in the AL and ya 100 wins should be expected.

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Old
12-18-2012, 06:35 AM
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Just look at Dan Haren, who became a serviceable ace for 3 clubs. Daric Barton wasn't that bad either. Look at what a dud Mulder became.
Daric Barton is a massive bust.

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Old
12-18-2012, 08:30 AM
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miester View Post
obviously very small sample size, but for people posing the can he duplicate in AL East question:

R.A. Dickey in six starts against American League East teams since 2010, including three against the Yankees: 42 innings, 20 hits, eight earned runs, 45 strikeouts and 11 walks, and a 1.71 ERA

its a good start for him to build off of lol
Also note that, in one 6 inning start, Dickey gave up 5 runs against the Yankees. So in the other 36 innings, he's given up 3 runs. That's a 0.75 ERA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
how can you not buy that? we've got the pitching staff in baseball and certinly at the very least the AL. combine that with the best lineup in the AL and ya 100 wins should be expected.
If you meant to say the best pitching staff in baseball, the Rays still say hello.

If Rays pitching does a complete nosedive this year, the Jays not only win 100 games, but they probably win the division by 15+ games. Otherwise, I agree that 95 is the absolute most we win, and that probably wins us the division by 2-3 games.

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12-18-2012, 08:48 AM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Leafsdude7 View Post
Also note that, in one 6 inning start, Dickey gave up 5 runs against the Yankees. So in the other 36 innings, he's given up 3 runs. That's a 0.75 ERA.



If you meant to say the best pitching staff in baseball, the Rays still say hello.

If Rays pitching does a complete nosedive this year, the Jays not only win 100 games, but they probably win the division by 15+ games. Otherwise, I agree that 95 is the absolute most we win, and that probably wins us the division by 2-3 games.
the rays took a step back trading sheilds

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Old
12-18-2012, 09:00 AM
  #343
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http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/t...al-east-121712

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12-18-2012, 09:00 AM
  #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
the rays took a step back trading sheilds
The still have Price, Moore, Hellickson, Niemann, Archer, and Cobb. The sheer depth of high-end starting prospects the Rays have is staggering.

Let's not forget, Toronto fans, about the Angels and Tigers last year. After their offseason acquisitions, people were penciling them into the playoffs, no problem. The Angels didn't even make it, finishing 3rd in a 4 team division and the Tigers went down to the wire in order to get in.

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12-18-2012, 09:03 AM
  #345
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Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
The still have Price, Moore, Hellickson, Niemann, Archer, and Cobb. The sheer depth of high-end starting prospects the Rays have is staggering.

Let's not forget, Toronto fans, about the Angels and Tigers last year. After their offseason acquisitions, people were penciling them into the playoffs, no problem. The Angels didn't even make it, finishing 3rd in a 4 team division and the Tigers went down to the wire in order to get in.
and made the finals

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12-18-2012, 09:50 AM
  #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
Let's not forget, Toronto fans, about the Angels and Tigers last year. After their offseason acquisitions, people were penciling them into the playoffs, no problem. The Angels didn't even make it, finishing 3rd in a 4 team division and the Tigers went down to the wire in order to get in.
I imagine there'll be some growing pains for the team. Not only is there a lot of pressure on them to succeed, but they'll probably have to work a bit to really get on the same page and get some chemistry working off the field. I think we'll be well on the way to a playoff spot by July or August, though, if we can stay reasonably healthy. There's just too much talent and consistency on the roster.

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12-18-2012, 11:00 AM
  #347
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You guys have completely missed the part where Sandy Alderson turned Mike Nickeas into a ****ing prospect. That is the best GM'ing I have ever seen in my entire life.

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12-18-2012, 11:11 AM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Muh View Post
I absolutely agree, that's why I think this is a good trade for both teams. Was just putting my 2 cents in on the prospects/MLB ready Mets comment.

I am a big time Yankee hater, so I love any team that gives them a run for their money. Plus, you got Dickey and Reyes. Go Jays!
Hopefully it works for both teams.. I know I'll be routing for d'Arnaud as a Met.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Depends on context.

If I had the 5 best pitching prospects, then yeah, I'd rather have them.

Also I remember the Giants had a couple of unproven prospects named Cain and Lincecum in their system. The Yankees on the other hand had the proven and established Chien-Ming Wang, Carl Pavano and Mike Mussina. Gee I wonder which one I should've taken.
You'd rather have the 5 best pitching prospects instead of the best rotation in baseball? (on paper or in theory, which is exactly what prospects are - unproven in the big leagues)

Quote:
Wieters even if he hasn't lived up to expectations is an elite catcher and he's still really young.

Syndergaard has nasty stuff and I think he can be an impact pitcher.
He was hyped as the next great player, thats my point. Its far from uncommon for a player to never reach expectations.

Syndergaard certainly has potential, but more 20 year old pitchers fail then succeed.


Quote:
Not even close. That's like saying the Royal won the James Shields trade. They may have the best player, but they gave up far too much upside in return.
What is upside? What does it count for? What wins baseball games, players or upside?

When you're in win now mode, whats more useful? A Cy Young winner? or prospects who may or may not even make it to the show, nevermind have the impact of a Cy Young pitcher?

Quote:
lol.
I'm sorry, whats more important then wins? Should we be more concerned with a pitchers stat line, or simply his W-L record?

Do you truly believe what you post? Or are you too much of a Yankee fanboy and can't grasp the fact that the 220m(?) roster isn't the most attractive this year?

The core in the Bronx is aging, and with the proclamation that they won't pay luxury tax anymore, fans seem to be grasping at whatever they can to avoid the thought of being mediocure.. Something that may happen as soon as this year.

I just wanna see how long this payroll slash lasts for.. How long will NY tollerate their precious Yankees not being a power before they say to hell with no luxury tax and start throwing money at everything; the only way they know how to build a team.

It seems like most Yankee fans are very uncomfortable not having the deck stacked in their favor this year.

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Old
12-18-2012, 11:18 AM
  #349
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You guys have completely missed the part where Sandy Alderson turned Mike Nickeas into a ****ing prospect. That is the best GM'ing I have ever seen in my entire life.
The media reported it that way, I don't think anyone in the Jays organization sees him that way?

We traded our backup catcher and AAA catcher, so we needed two back.. Buffalo will have a solid pitching staff so we needed a solid AAA catcher. He's a Canadian kid who might get a few reps if Arencibia or Thole get hurt, and has experience catching a knuckleball.


It was a depth move for insurance. Nobody has any hopes of him being a major league player.

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12-18-2012, 11:23 AM
  #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
The media reported it that way, I don't think anyone in the Jays organization sees him that way?

We traded our backup catcher and AAA catcher, so we needed two back.. Buffalo will have a solid pitching staff so we needed a solid AAA catcher. He's a Canadian kid who might get a few reps if Arencibia or Thole get hurt, and has experience catching a knuckleball.


It was a depth move for insurance. Nobody has any hopes of him being a major league player.
It doesn't matter. We traded the worst player in the majors for a decent prospect. He can't even catch Dickey well.

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