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[NYM/TOR] Dickey/Thole/Nickeas for D'Arnaud/Syndergaard/Buck/Becerra (done deal)

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Old
12-19-2012, 06:25 PM
  #426
TootooTrain
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Maybe teams found out his pitching mechanics.
His problem was control, not his 'stuff'. I'm done here, you're making assumptions layered with speculation.

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12-19-2012, 06:25 PM
  #427
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I would try to pick pocket that apart, but I'll just say that you're going off of very small sample sizes. ie handful of games as opposed to full season

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Old
12-19-2012, 06:26 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
I would try to pick pocket that apart, but I'll just say that you're going off of very small sample sizes.
The man who just said Romero sucks, after one terrible season.

Well done. Your tainted view is mind boggling.

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12-19-2012, 06:27 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
The man who just said Romero sucks, based on one year.

Well done.
Romero was garbage for a full season though, most of GIG's arguments were based on a small stretch of games like the playoffs.

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Old
12-19-2012, 06:27 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
But he sucked last year. Really bad. In fact, 3rd worst among SP. If that is not sucking, then I don't know what is.
previous to the rest of the rotation going down and him being the only legit pitcher the jays had his numbers were like morrow's getting up into the could he get a few cy young vote category...he was brilliant to start the year just fell to pieces when he became the only sp of worth remaining

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12-19-2012, 06:29 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
I would try to pick pocket that apart, but I'll just say that you're going off of very small sample sizes.


Obviously Romero was terrible last year. It's one year. He improved every season since his rookie year and is one year removed from being an all-star. He has a proven track record of being good. There is just as much reason to believe he can be that pitcher again.

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12-19-2012, 06:30 PM
  #432
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previous to the rest of the rotation going down and him being the only legit pitcher the jays had his numbers were like morrow's getting up into the could he get a few cy young vote category...he was brilliant to start the year just fell to pieces when he became the only sp of worth remaining
So Romero's excuse for imploding is because other pitchers on the team are injured? Wow.

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12-19-2012, 06:32 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by GIN ANTONIC View Post


Obviously Romero was terrible last year. It's one year. He improved every season since his rookie year and is one year removed from being an all-star. He has a proven track record of being good. There is just as much reason to believe he can be that pitcher again.
he could return to that path, or he could become the next dontrelle willis. Who knows. Very risky player to have however, but good thing is that his salary isn't that high.

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12-19-2012, 06:33 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
So Romero's excuse for imploding is because other pitchers on the team are injured? Wow.
No his excuse for pitching terrible is that he pitched terrible. That's it. It's over. It's a new year. We will see which Ricky we see. The one that pitched 3 consecutive good seasons or 1 miserable one. There's nothing to debate.

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12-19-2012, 07:45 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
he could return to that path, or he could become the next dontrelle willis. Who knows. Very risky player to have however, but good thing is that his salary isn't that high.
One thing to keep in mind is he is the Jays fifth starter most likey.

I am not a big Romero fan but I think he will do better next season. Maybe an ERA around 3.8.

The guy I am worried about is JJ. I think he will get injured. Morrow hasn't had any arm injuries as far as I know so I think he will pitch over 200 innings this year.

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Old
12-19-2012, 07:52 PM
  #436
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Well you're wrong. Kuroda is our #2. That's not even a debate right now.

Furthermore your last comment is ludicrous. Kuroda is better than Buehrle and Romero (who is so overrated it gives me heartburn) and better than pretty much everyone the Rays rotation after Price, maybe Moore and that's a big maybe.

Have you ever seen Kuroda pitch? Have you ever looked at his stats? Do you even know who he is? He's a great #2.
Romero is actually becoming underrated IMO. He was bad last year but before that..?

You make it sound like he's Phil Hughes

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12-19-2012, 07:56 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by GIN ANTONIC View Post
Pettite and Rivera were seriously injured last year. That is the most recent information I have on them. There is no reason to believe they will not get seriously injured again. A-Rod and Jeter are currently injured. As it stands RIGHT NOW they cannot even play baseball. That is the most recent information I have on them. There is no reason to believe they will ever play baseball again. It is possible their injuries will never heal. Curtis Granderson was terrible in the playoffs. Why would he not be terrible this year? Mark Texeira was injured last year and terrible in the playoffs. There is no data to prove this will not happen again. The Yankees roster is in serious trouble considering the most recent information and computer data...
I lol'd this entire post. Spot on, good stuff.

What have you done for me lately? If we can only judge Romero on last season, well then...

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Old
12-19-2012, 08:01 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
His problem was control, not his 'stuff'. I'm done here, you're making assumptions layered with speculation.
His control was definitely erratic last year, I'm still puzzled as to why. Was he playing hurt? Not making excuses but he just didn't seem comfortable after the first couple of months

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12-19-2012, 08:22 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
3rd worst FIP in the majors, 5th worst WAR. That's all I need to know.

His BABIP was also higher than previous years too and strand rate was well below MLB average. I think he rebounds next season.

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12-19-2012, 08:45 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by mapes View Post
Romero is actually becoming underrated IMO. He was bad last year but before that..?

You make it sound like he's Phil Hughes
Phil Hughes was much, much better than Romero last season.

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12-19-2012, 08:57 PM
  #441
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Romero was a joke last year, but I never thought he was anything more than a good #3.

None of his stats, regular or advanced are particularly mind-blowing. He's nowhere near Kuroda.

Romero's stats aren't far off from Hughes.

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Old
12-19-2012, 11:05 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Romero was a joke last year, but I never thought he was anything more than a good #3.

None of his stats, regular or advanced are particularly mind-blowing. He's nowhere near Kuroda.

Romero's stats aren't far off from Hughes.
Seriuosly? A 2.92 ERA in 2011 is a good number 3, getting cy young votes is a good number 3? With the exception of last season romero is in a whole other league than hughes and was a number one

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12-19-2012, 11:55 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
Seriuosly? A 2.92 ERA in 2011 is a good number 3, getting cy young votes is a good number 3? With the exception of last season romero is in a whole other league than hughes and was a number one
2011 was the only year he put up #1 numbers and based on his career stats it's just as much of an outlier as last year was.

And even in 2011 he still had a below average FIP.

If the Jays thought he was capable of being anything close to a top of the rotation pitcher they wouldn't have acquired 3 starters in blockbuster trades.

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Old
12-20-2012, 12:51 AM
  #444
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Phil Hughes was much, much better than Romero last season.
And Romero is much much better than Hughes every other year

So going by that then, CC would be the Jays number 3 pitcher. Nice

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Old
12-20-2012, 12:56 AM
  #445
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
2011 was the only year he put up #1 numbers and based on his career stats it's just as much of an outlier as last year was.

And even in 2011 he still had a below average FIP.

If the Jays thought he was capable of being anything close to a top of the rotation pitcher they wouldn't have acquired 3 starters in blockbuster trades.
And 2012 was the only year he was bad..

Pitchers pitch every 5 days, you need more than 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Romero was a joke last year, but I never thought he was anything more than a good #3.

None of his stats, regular or advanced are particularly mind-blowing. He's nowhere near Kuroda.

Romero's stats aren't far off from Hughes.
Hughes, since becoming a full time starter hasn't had an era under 4.19 in the 3 years. Romero has had well under that 2 of the years (once under 3)

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Old
12-20-2012, 01:25 AM
  #446
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Every team has obnoxious members of their fanbase. It's just that the Yankees are more vocal because they have the most fans.
No other team's fans have de-railed this thread by exalting their rotation and disparaging Toronto's. Coincidence?

Seriously, if you want to spend days on end aggrandizing the Yankees' pitchers why don't you make a "Yankees Pitching Appreciation Thread" instead of pervading unrelated threads with your homerism?

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Old
12-20-2012, 07:53 AM
  #447
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If the Jays thought he was capable of being anything close to a top of the rotation pitcher they wouldn't have acquired 3 starters in blockbuster trades.
Just going threw the thread and landed on this little gem....

So if you have a good player, you'll be questionned if you acquire more good players to surround him?

So when the Yankees open up their check books to sign everyone and anyone, what does that say about the team... that they suck and need outside help to "stay alive"?

C'mon now

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Old
12-20-2012, 08:10 AM
  #448
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
Seriuosly? A 2.92 ERA in 2011 is a good number 3, getting cy young votes is a good number 3? With the exception of last season romero is in a whole other league than hughes and was a number one
Romero a number one?

and I thought the rest of this thread was bad

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Old
12-20-2012, 08:52 AM
  #449
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Romero a number one?

and I thought the rest of this thread was bad
2010-11 435 innings with a 3.32 ERA. That's number one performance.

Hughes's best season was 176 innings with a 103 ERA+. Not really in the same league.

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:42 AM
  #450
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Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun

Seeing lots of Blue Jays caps here in the crowd tonight.


RE: NHLPA Charity Game




So it begins..

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