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[NYM/TOR] Dickey/Thole/Nickeas for D'Arnaud/Syndergaard/Buck/Becerra (done deal)

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Old
12-21-2012, 08:16 PM
  #476
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
He couldn't find the strike zone the year before either. He's always had ****** control. In his so called "very good year" as you put it, he was walking over 3 batter per 9 innings. Only 6 AL pitchers were worse. He's a guy who doesn't strike anybody out, and gives all sorts of free passes. He was never an ace pitcher and always lived dangerously. He's a good number 3 when he is on, and the worst pitcher in the league when things go slightly wrong.
How dare you bring facts into the discussion!

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12-21-2012, 08:17 PM
  #477
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Not even close. Nova was pretty bad, but he's never been Romero bad.

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12-21-2012, 08:33 PM
  #478
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I learned that it takes only one Yankee homer to derail a thread.

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12-21-2012, 08:45 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
I learned that it takes only one Yankee homer to derail a thread.
Actually the Yankees were brought into this discussion by a Mets fan, but nice try.

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12-21-2012, 08:48 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Not even close. Nova was pretty bad, but he's never been Romero bad.
I know, I just don't like Nova

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12-22-2012, 12:34 AM
  #481
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Not even close. Nova was pretty bad, but he's never been Romero bad.
So it takes 1 season of play to be called a specific kind of bad implying that he has absolutely no skill set. Way to completely whiff over his other years as sample size. I'm not saying Romero is ****ing Babe Ruth, but he's definitely serviceable and good.

Call me when Romero stinks the joint for more than 1 season, then you may have some credence.

Or better yet, allow me to use an example from your hockey team:
- Was Marian Gaborik bad just because he had an injury-plagued season and scored 22 goals a couple of years ago? No, because he followed through with 41 goals the year after.

Let athletes have a bad season and a chance to bounce back before labelling someone as "bad."

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12-22-2012, 01:47 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
No kidding. Romero has always been a low strikeout, high walks, high homers pitcher. Basically it shouldn't come as a surprise that he imploded so terribly last season. He was never that good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
He couldn't find the strike zone the year before either. He's always had ****** control. In his so called "very good year" as you put it, he was walking over 3 batter per 9 innings. Only 6 AL pitchers were worse. He's a guy who doesn't strike anybody out, and gives all sorts of free passes. He was never an ace pitcher and always lived dangerously. He's a good number 3 when he is on, and the worst pitcher in the league when things go slightly wrong.
a) A SO/9 of 7-8 is hardly 'not striking anybody out'. Henderson Alvarez is a guy who doesn't strike anybody out - Romero, prior to his implosion last year, looked like a guy who could push 200 Ks in a season, and was only 10-15 SOs away from being top 10 in the AL in both 2010 and 2011.

b) Romero was in the top 10 in the AL in HRs conceded/9 innings in 2009 and 2010, so the notion that he's 'always been a high homers pitcher' is blatantly false.

c) K/BB is one statistic. When guys can't get around on you and you're only conceding 7 hits/9 innings, an extra few walks really don't matter that much.

By pretty much any metric other than K/BB, Romero was a quality #1-2 pitcher through 2010-11 and the start of 2012. Then he utterly imploded, with an injury being a factor. To say that this was somehow predictable is ridiculous.

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12-22-2012, 01:51 AM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Actually the Yankees were brought into this discussion by a Mets fan, but nice try.
Doesn't matter who brought them in.

The point is, Yankee fans continued the discussions and turned this thread into a pile of crap.

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12-22-2012, 02:09 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
The only pitcher even close to as bad as Romero last year was Ubaldo, and even the mighty Ubaldo couldn't match Romero's suckiness.

Ervin Santana feels left out.

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12-22-2012, 04:42 AM
  #485
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
Doesn't matter who brought them in.

The point is, Yankee fans continued the discussions and turned this thread into a pile of crap.


For Yankee fans, it's all about them. Can't wait til next season. If these trades work out for the Jays I look forward to them kicking some Yankee A$$!

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12-22-2012, 08:48 AM
  #486
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Not even close. Nova was pretty bad, but he's never been Romero bad.
Never been Romero good either

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12-22-2012, 08:50 AM
  #487
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How dare you bring facts into the discussion!
Most of his "facts" aren't true as MS pointed out..

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12-22-2012, 09:46 AM
  #488
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
Doesn't matter who brought them in.

The point is, Yankee fans continued the discussions and turned this thread into a pile of crap.
Yankee fans are mad that something happened to another team in the division instead of theirs. Wait until they miss the playoffs, this place will be a meltdown.

If you read any of the GDT last years playoffs, even these same Yank fans whined about the Yankees, now all of a sudden they are soo good.

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Old
12-22-2012, 10:10 AM
  #489
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Most of his "facts" aren't true as MS pointed out..
name one "fact" that I listed that was not an indisputable fact?

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Old
12-22-2012, 11:24 AM
  #490
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I disagree with the notion that Romero is a low-K guy, but his BB/IP have always been real high. It's hard to rely on a guy going forward when he hasn't proven he can get his stuff under control. It may help him that he's now the #5 and can get skipped starts and not have the pressure some Jays fans said wore on him, but I don't see him as someone you can put a lot of stock in going forward.

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Old
12-22-2012, 11:26 AM
  #491
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Originally Posted by JS19 View Post
So it takes 1 season of play to be called a specific kind of bad implying that he has absolutely no skill set. Way to completely whiff over his other years as sample size. I'm not saying Romero is ****ing Babe Ruth, but he's definitely serviceable and good.

Call me when Romero stinks the joint for more than 1 season, then you may have some credence.

Or better yet, allow me to use an example from your hockey team:
- Was Marian Gaborik bad just because he had an injury-plagued season and scored 22 goals a couple of years ago? No, because he followed through with 41 goals the year after.

Let athletes have a bad season and a chance to bounce back before labelling someone as "bad."
I don't see the correlation between Romero and Gaborik, sorry.

Marian Gaborik has been consistently one of the best goal scorers in the league. Even in his 'down year', he wasn't as atrocious as being the 2nd worst player in his position like Romero was.

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12-22-2012, 11:55 AM
  #492
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
I don't see the correlation between Romero and Gaborik, sorry.

Marian Gaborik has been consistently one of the best goal scorers in the league. Even in his 'down year', he wasn't as atrocious as being the 2nd worst player in his position like Romero was.
Romero was not the 2nd worst player at the starting pitcher position last year. Where are you getting this from? Maybe in FIP, but that's it. Out of the bottom 10 starters in FIP for 2012, he easily had the highest BABIP. Proving he was unluckey compared to some of the pitchers in that grouping.


Last edited by Everlong: 12-22-2012 at 12:29 PM.
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Old
12-22-2012, 12:22 PM
  #493
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Are we really comparing Marian Gaborik to Ricky Romero?

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12-22-2012, 12:27 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
Are we really comparing Marian Gaborik to Ricky Romero?
No kidding.

Can anyone give me the down-low on Thole, both at the plate and behind it? Cheers.

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Old
12-22-2012, 12:38 PM
  #495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Disagree with the last two, but you're spot on with the others. Hughes <= Romero on a good day, Pettitte > Buehrle based on career and last season only. I like the Yankees rotation more, but I think if things click right, the Jays could have a chance to be as good.
You have to remember Buehrle and Romero are terrific defensive pitchers, they will normally have a lower BABIP because of that. Romero is a 3 win pitcher where Hughes is a 2 win pitcher. Pettitte is an odd cause, I would have to think he is a 3 to 3.5 win pitcher but so is Buehrle based on WAR. If we use RA9-Wins he is a 3.5 to 4 win pitcher with his defense.

I believe both rotations are good, I don't think the Yankee's bats quite match up with the Jays though. Actually looking at it again, they aren't close.

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12-22-2012, 12:39 PM
  #496
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No kidding.

Can anyone give me the down-low on Thole, both at the plate and behind it? Cheers.
As a Mets fans Thole was very frustrating to watch, because he's a fringe MLB catcher at best. You don't want him starting unless he is catching Dickey, and even that is going to be painful because he can't throw out runners. He has a short swing and often rolls over too second base or pulls off to early and pops it up to shallow left field.

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12-22-2012, 01:10 PM
  #497
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Is Thole the catcher who closed his eyes when trying to catch this?


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12-22-2012, 01:14 PM
  #498
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Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
No kidding.

Can anyone give me the down-low on Thole, both at the plate and behind it? Cheers.
Thole is a cheaper version of Buck with less power. He can catch the knuckleball.

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Is Thole the catcher who closed his eyes when trying to catch this?

yup thats him. look at that the ball tho, looks like a wiffleball coming in

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12-22-2012, 01:14 PM
  #499
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Is Thole the catcher who closed his eyes when trying to catch this?
I have spend maybe 20 minutes the last 2 days watching this Gif.

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12-22-2012, 01:29 PM
  #500
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Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
Romero was not the 2nd worst player at the starting pitcher position last year. Where are you getting this from? Maybe in FIP, but that's it. Out of the bottom 10 starters in FIP for 2012, he easily had the highest BABIP. Proving he was unluckey compared to some of the pitchers in that grouping.
I agree that Romero was very unlucky last year, but it was also a combination of bad play.

First in BB/9 Innings
Worst ERA amongst starters
3rd worst FIP
4th worst xFIP
Worst WHIP against.
Worst SIERA rating.

That screams to me as one of the worst, if not the worst SP in the entire league based on last season.

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