HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Detroit Red Wings
Notices

Lockout talk thread

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-03-2013, 10:46 AM
  #126
loojay
Registered User
 
loojay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 217
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Bertuzzi and Sammy are fine. Sammy is a decent pickup who is rock steady as a supporting winger. Realistically none of our prospects have the consistency or size of these two.

We can also be sure that they will both spend time on the IR due to their age and history. Opening up opportuntiies for our young guys to play them out of a job.

Worst case: 1. Steady veteran wingers with size/skill 2. Prospects get a shot to play at the NHL 10-30 games and win a job (and keep their next contract reasonable). 3. Veteran wingers will hopefully be healthy and rested for playoffs.

Whats the downside?
Yeah, I wouldn't buyout anyone either, like I said but if I had to it would probably be those two.

Conversely on the Leafs board a thread was made with possible buyouts for every team.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1315233

What castoffs would you want to pick up?

Vinny? Redden? Volchenkov? Souray?

I'd give Volvhenkov a shot. Then the Wings would have way too many players though.

loojay is online now  
Old
01-03-2013, 10:48 AM
  #127
Winger98
Moderator
powers combined
 
Winger98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 13,763
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Winger98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
I guarantee this 3-4 month extra rest it's nothing but positive for older bodies.
I'm not sure it's a good thing for older athletes. Bert hasn't been able to play, and he's going to have a much more difficult time getting into game shape than the younger guys.

__________________
blah, blah, blah
Winger98 is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 10:55 AM
  #128
TS Quint
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 504
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by loojay View Post
Yeah, I wouldn't buyout anyone either, like I said but if I had to it would probably be those two.

Conversely on the Leafs board a thread was made with possible buyouts for every team.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1315233

What castoffs would you want to pick up?

Vinny? Redden? Volchenkov? Souray?

I'd give Volvhenkov a shot. Then the Wings would have way too many players though.
Bring in the Heater! With all the pass first players we have he would light it up. Playing Dats and Nyquist would be deadly. Pipe dream, I know but I think it would be awesome.

Volchenkov would be some good defensive stability. He would allow Smith to rome around a little more.

TS Quint is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 10:59 AM
  #129
TS Quint
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 504
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Bert, Sammy and Franzen all need to go. Realistically, none of them will be bought out.

Maybe you can trade Franzen, like propain said.
Any forward over 6'2 must go! We need to be the smallest, weakest team in the league. We like it when Weber comes to town to take our lunch money.

TS Quint is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 10:59 AM
  #130
Vladdy84
L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,773
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by loojay View Post
Yeah, I wouldn't buyout anyone either, like I said but if I had to it would probably be those two.

Conversely on the Leafs board a thread was made with possible buyouts for every team.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1315233

What castoffs would you want to pick up?

Vinny? Redden? Volchenkov? Souray?

I'd give Volvhenkov a shot. Then the Wings would have way too many players though.
Briere, Homicide Heatley, Campbell? Especially Campbell if the Wings choose not to re-sign White.

Vladdy84 is online now  
Old
01-03-2013, 11:12 AM
  #131
WingedWheel1987
Ken Holland's office
 
WingedWheel1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: GPP Michigan
Posts: 8,138
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TS Quint View Post
Any forward over 6'2 must go! We need to be the smallest, weakest team in the league. We like it when Weber comes to town to take our lunch money.
six feet of crap is still crap.

WingedWheel1987 is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 11:35 AM
  #132
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Honestly, If I could buy out two guys it would be Cleary and Sammy..

Bert's cap hit makes him keepable.

No way do I buy out Franzen. I may be disappointed that we kept him over Franzen, and I may get sick of his two-month no-shows, but he's still an important part of this team.

RedWingsNow* is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 11:38 AM
  #133
Vladdy84
L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,773
vCash: 500
The buy outs would start next year right?

Vladdy84 is online now  
Old
01-03-2013, 11:42 AM
  #134
ProPAIN
Waar is da feestje?!
 
ProPAIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Paris
Country: Belgium
Posts: 11,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Honestly, If I could buy out two guys it would be Cleary and Sammy..

Bert's cap hit makes him keepable.

No way do I buy out Franzen. I may be disappointed that we kept him over Franzen, and I may get sick of his two-month no-shows, but he's still an important part of this team.
Why would you buy-out a player who will be a free agent in July? Unless this year doesn't count against contracts, he has 6 months before he's a UFA.

I would let Bert and Sammy go, bring in Tatar, Mursak and go with this team:

Nyquist - Datsyuk - Franzen
Filppula - Zetterberg - Brunner
Tatar - Helm - Miller
Abdelkader - Andersson - Tootoo

Mursak, Emmerton, Eaves (IR)

Kronwall - Smith
Ericsson - White
Colaicovo - Quincey

Kindl

Howard
Gustavsson

Another possibility is Colaicovo, but we are too thin on D.

ProPAIN is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 01:42 PM
  #135
InjuredChoker
Registered User
 
InjuredChoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: LTIR or golf course
Posts: 17,412
vCash: 500
Campbell bought out? LMAO. Number 1D, Florida doesn't have cap issues and Campbell, though slightly overpaid still has value.

Heatley won't get bought out. Worst offensive team in NHL? Yeah, they're buying out their best shooter. Buy out PMB, maybe Brodziak or Cullen, and bring in the kids on ELCs.

InjuredChoker is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 02:14 PM
  #136
Henkka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 8,682
vCash: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladdy84 View Post
The buy outs would start next year right?
Don't know yet. There has been talk about possibility to buy one this year and buy other next year.

I hope there's only 1 buyout chance that would push overspenders more for salary trades.

Henkka is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 03:39 PM
  #137
JmanWingsFan
Your average Jman
 
JmanWingsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere
Country: United States
Posts: 4,462
vCash: 500
Is variance basically the ability for GM's to restructure salaries of players by the percentage amount allowed during the period so as to fit under the cap? If that's the case, then 30% plus two cap compliance buyouts with a cap between $60-65million (My guess it will end up at $63 Million)... Boy things could get very interesting very fast.

JmanWingsFan is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 05:04 PM
  #138
Capsized
Parity is a Disease
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,221
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
The 50ish game season should help the wings. I thought they were a fringe playoff team with a full regular season, but 50 games will benefit an older team.

Lockout years are very random.
They should start keeping lockout year stats. Lockouts happen so often that they are becoming a huge factor in outcomes!

Capsized is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 08:48 PM
  #139
sarcastro
Registered User
 
sarcastro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,245
vCash: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Honestly, If I could buy out two guys it would be Cleary and Sammy..

Bert's cap hit makes him keepable.

No way do I buy out Franzen. I may be disappointed that we kept him over Franzen, and I may get sick of his two-month no-shows, but he's still an important part of this team.
Bert's cap hit might be reasonable but his penchant for taking bad penalties (bad on his part, or bad on the refs' part because he has a bullseye on his back, either way) is a detriment to the team and they have a lot of good young players ready to contribute.

Keepable? Maybe. But they have alternatives now and should have more confidence in them after the way they've been performing in GR. Besides, this team is going to have to go young at some point and it's better if they don't wait until they have to do it all at once.

sarcastro is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 09:32 PM
  #140
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
Why would you buy-out a player who will be a free agent in July?
Simply this:
Cleary; $2.8M 6'0
Bertuzzi: $2.1M 6'3

Bertuzzi makes $200,000 more than Jordin Tootoo

RedWingsNow* is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 09:56 PM
  #141
JmanWingsFan
Your average Jman
 
JmanWingsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere
Country: United States
Posts: 4,462
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Simply this:
Cleary; $2.8M 6'0
Bertuzzi: $2.1M 6'3

Bertuzzi makes $200,000 more than Jordin Tootoo
Cleary's contract already comes off the books in July, unless you're talking about buying him out now... Still makes no sense to me, but whatever.

JmanWingsFan is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 10:28 PM
  #142
JmanWingsFan
Your average Jman
 
JmanWingsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere
Country: United States
Posts: 4,462
vCash: 500
Would love it if someone explained make-whole and variance to me.

JmanWingsFan is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 11:18 PM
  #143
probertrules24
Down with the Bruins
 
probertrules24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Would love it if someone explained make-whole and variance to me.
Quoted from NHL.com

Quote:
No Rollback; Players' Share "Make Whole" Provision
The NHL is not proposing that current SPCs be reduced, re-written or rolled back. Instead, the NHL's proposal retains all current Players' SPCs at their current face value for the duration of their terms, subject to the operation of the escrow mechanism in the same manner as it has worked under the expired CBA. (In other words, under the expired CBA, the compensation a Player received each year was either higher or lower than the face value of his contract depending upon Club-Player contracting levels and the level and growth rate of HRR.) Under the expired CBA, in two of the seven years Players were paid in excess of the face values of their SPCs and in five of those years they received less than their face values. That process would remain intact under the new CBA.

Under our "make whole" proposal, which is premised upon a 5% anticipated growth of HRR both this year and in future years, every Player will be paid compensation based on the full value of the Players' Share under which his current SPC was signed.

In order to effectively transition from a Players' Share of 57 percent to 50 percent, including importantly to protect Players' current SPCs against an absolute reduction in Players' Share dollars, the new Agreement contemplates, in its initial years, a "make whole" mechanism that will effectively pay each Player currently under contract the difference between 50% of Actual HRR in 2012/13 and 57% of HRR in 2011/12 -- which was $1.883 Billion.

Again, premised upon an assumed 5% growth rate between 2011/12 and 2012/13, the "make whole" amount is calculated to be a maximum of $149 million for the 2012/13 season ($1.883 Billion minus $1.734 Billion (57% multiplied by $3.303 Billion minus 50% multiplied by $3.468 Billion). Similarly, utilizing that formula and our 5% growth projections, the "make whole" amount is calculated to be a maximum of $62 million for the 2013/14 season.

To accomplish the "make whole," each Players' pro-rata "make whole" will be determined for the first two years of the Agreement and will be paid to each Player as a Deferred Compensation benefit over the life of the Player's existing SPC. For those Players whose contracts expire after the 2012/13 season, the benefit will be paid when final HRR is determined for this season (in October/November 2013). Player "make whole" payments will be accrued and paid for by the League, and will be chargeable against Players' Share amounts in future years as Preliminary Benefits.

The "make whole" obligation will be operational only through the 2013/14 season because, beginning in Year 3, the projected growth in League-wide revenues should have resulted in an increase in absolute Players' Share dollars (in excess of the Players' Share of $1.883 Billion in 2011/12). This will effectively restore "full value" to all existing SPCs without any continuing need for a "make whole."

We note in regard to this proposal, that while the NHLPA's August 14 proposal was premised upon a 7% annual growth rate in HRR, we instead used the more conservative growth rate of 5%, consistent with our prior proposals. If the NHLPA's estimate of revenue growth is more accurate, then the amount of money needed to effectuate a "make whole" would actually be less.

probertrules24 is online now  
Old
01-03-2013, 11:24 PM
  #144
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Cleary's contract already comes off the books in July, unless you're talking about buying him out now... Still makes no sense to me, but whatever.
Ah sorry. I was thinking a quick buyout on return. The cap doesn't go down until the next year, right?
Yep. Sammy + Bert. Though I might consider Quincey, too.

RedWingsNow* is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:33 AM
  #145
14ari13
Registered User
 
14ari13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Western Sahara
Country: Norway
Posts: 9,140
vCash: 500
I do not get these lockouts. 3rd in 20 years!!!

14ari13 is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 09:16 AM
  #146
ProPAIN
Waar is da feestje?!
 
ProPAIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Paris
Country: Belgium
Posts: 11,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Ah sorry. I was thinking a quick buyout on return. The cap doesn't go down until the next year, right?
Yep. Sammy + Bert. Though I might consider Quincey, too.
As much as some people may hate hate him, this team is just too thin on defense to let a second pairing defenseman go. He's not the best in the league by any stretch of the imagination, but Holland has decided to replace key players by committee and Q is part of that. He can play on the PP and PK (a luxury we just don't have apart from Kronner). If we have a better replacement for cheaper, then I'd like to hear them. And I don't mean point production.

ProPAIN is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 09:23 AM
  #147
Frk It
#FireHolland
 
Frk It's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 9,173
vCash: 500
I really have little to absolutely no faith in the lockout ending, but in the event a miracle occurs I would be very excited to see Brunner come over and play. I really think he could give a big boost to this team offensively, guy has a great skill set.

Frk It is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 10:37 AM
  #148
Heaton
Moderator
#disapointment
 
Heaton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Rochester, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 16,910
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Heaton
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
As much as some people may hate hate him, this team is just too thin on defense to let a second pairing defenseman go. He's not the best in the league by any stretch of the imagination, but Holland has decided to replace key players by committee and Q is part of that. He can play on the PP and PK (a luxury we just don't have apart from Kronner). If we have a better replacement for cheaper, then I'd like to hear them. And I don't mean point production.
Especially with Quincey's age. As average as he was since coming over there weren't a ton of better value for the long term.

Heaton is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 11:06 AM
  #149
RedMachine87
Registered User
 
RedMachine87's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: A^2
Country: United States
Posts: 484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
I really have little to absolutely no faith in the lockout ending, but in the event a miracle occurs I would be very excited to see Brunner come over and play. I really think he could give a big boost to this team offensively, guy has a great skill set.
I sadly agree about the work stoppage. Lockouts really are a pretty pathetic bargaining strategy. Childish even. I'd go so far as to compare it to a schoolyard kickball game where the two sides can't agree on a fair set of rules and so the owner takes his ball and goes home.

Grow up, act professional, and stop getting so butt hurt over the disagreements. Is the money you think you're going to "save" really going to compensate for the money lost by canceling a whole NHL season (around $3 billion last year) or the damage done to the sport in general due to pissed off fans?

There is a reason the NHL has more canceled games over the last 20 years than the three other major sports combined. It's because it makes no business sense to alienate your fans. Especially when the major issues will trend towards an equilibrium anyways.

/End Rant

RedMachine87 is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 03:08 PM
  #150
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
As much as some people may hate hate him, this team is just too thin on defense to let a second pairing defenseman go. He's not the best in the league by any stretch of the imagination, but Holland has decided to replace key players by committee and Q is part of that. He can play on the PP and PK (a luxury we just don't have apart from Kronner). If we have a better replacement for cheaper, then I'd like to hear them. And I don't mean point production.
i disagree. I;m tired of the excuse makers.
And I also disagree that he's an answer on our PK. If he is, this team is in serious trouble.
Frankly, with Kronwall, White, Smith, CC and Kindl, we don;t need Quincey on the PP.

So what we needed was a defensive defenseman. Allen or Hanan were better options.

RedWingsNow* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:05 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.