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Phoenix LXVII; Route66 - Aftermath

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Old
12-28-2012, 02:48 PM
  #226
WaveRaven
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Doesn't GWI need the lease to be actually in place before they can go after it.

As of the moment the lease is still contingent on conditions being met. So far there has been no gift. Am I off base here ?

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Old
12-28-2012, 02:54 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Just to compare average salaries from 2011...
Combined with the fact that NHL stars are significantly underpaid relative to their peers in the other major sports, this shows that the PA has been remarkably successful in instituting "revenue sharing" amongst the players.

Imagine how much healthier the Coyotes would be if the owners took as good care of each other...

 
Old
12-28-2012, 03:33 PM
  #228
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comparing mean salaries across leagues is awkward without basing them in the larger context of gross league revenues.

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12-28-2012, 03:42 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
comparing mean salaries across leagues is awkward without basing them in the larger context of gross league revenues.
Not to mention roster size. The NBA, whioch is closest in revenue to the NHL I think, has 13 active players on its rosters. Less players to eat, get a bigger slice of pie.

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12-28-2012, 04:11 PM
  #230
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Not to mention roster size. The NBA, whioch is closest in revenue to the NHL I think, has 13 active players on its rosters. Less players to eat, get a bigger slice of pie.
true, but # of players is covered in the mean salary.

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12-28-2012, 04:27 PM
  #231
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I will be glad when this saga is over. The Coyotes payroll is down this year. I'm expecting more marketing and a larger turn out.
GWI pretty much stated that they will not do anything else. No referendum. The NHL looks like they will play this season. I'm getting excited about the idea of the Arizona Coyotes this season.

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12-28-2012, 04:33 PM
  #232
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GWI pretty much stated that they will not do anything else.
When was this?

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12-28-2012, 04:36 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by DesertDawg View Post
The NHL looks like they will play this season.
and this?

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Old
12-28-2012, 04:56 PM
  #234
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He's an investor and has inside info. Shhhh!!

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12-28-2012, 08:07 PM
  #235
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It's reassuring to read Ice Edge is still involved with Jamison.

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12-28-2012, 08:36 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
When was this?
right after their last court case when they question the lease agreement back in June that allowed signatures for a referendum. They did state that they will look into the legality of the agreement, but they know that they can't prove excessive or that the courts want to decide what is excessive. There is no way that the other NHL teams will let GWI know what it costs to run their arenas to compare, so they can not possibly prove anything.

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12-28-2012, 08:53 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by CGG View Post
Perhaps you should read the article before trying to besmirch it. Seems none other than Greg "The Shadow" Jamison admits to looking into the program:



Is that a good enough source for you? Right from the horse's mouth.

The interesting part of that quote, aside from confirming that Jamison is more or less alive and well and in fact a real person, is that he admits he's "looked at everything" in terms of dredging up potential investors. 18 months of globetrotting and the sale still hasn't closed. And of course when asked about using the cash-for-green-cards program, he still refuses to out any of his alleged investors.

I wouldn't feel too good about Jamison buying the team right now.

Bonus: The Ice Edge clowns are looking at getting a green card through their investment in the Coyotes! Awesome! You can have 'em, United States.



(Article quotes from Shoalts' G&M article, here: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle6758950/ )
First..... saying you're "looking into" something can mean anything from reading the statute to actually attempting to take an action utilizing it.

So my opinion of Shoat's article is dead nuts on (and I'm not the only one who thinks that, and we come from both sides of the fence.)

Shoats is heavily implying that Jamison actually made the attempt to recruit investors that way. If you want to buy that nonsense that's fine by me.

IMNSHO opinion.... Shoats has had exactly TWO solid sources to draw his articles from in the past four years. Richard Rodier and Phil Lieberman. Everything else is whatever he can cull, or dream up from bits of info here and there.

I consider posters on this site more reliable than Dave Shoalts.

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12-28-2012, 10:49 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
First..... saying you're "looking into" something can mean anything from reading the statute to actually attempting to take an action utilizing it.

So my opinion of Shoat's article is dead nuts on (and I'm not the only one who thinks that, and we come from both sides of the fence.)

Shoats is heavily implying that Jamison actually made the attempt to recruit investors that way. If you want to buy that nonsense that's fine by me.

IMNSHO opinion.... Shoats has had exactly TWO solid sources to draw his articles from in the past four years. Richard Rodier and Phil Lieberman. Everything else is whatever he can cull, or dream up from bits of info here and there.

I consider posters on this site more reliable than Dave Shoalts.
Well thank you for that TL, but really, what does DS have to gain by making up an article for the largest national newspaper in Canada? Surely he could have chosen any topic, but yet he chooses the coyotes, who are now only cared about in Quebec, just to sell the english language paper? I find it a stretch to believe that in his wildest dreams he came up with this story. Where there is smoke there is fire.

I get that you are a yotes fan and just wish this was all over so you could fully support your team and not have to spend half your time defending it, but I think your also smart enough to see what everyone else sees....something is shady in Glendale. GJ has had 18 months, literally turning over every stone looking for money. DS does not need to write something telling anyone this, those that are interested know this already, via the French language papers, who are following this quite heavily in Quebec City. Most hockey fans are in the "who cares" category when it comes to Phoenix, you don't gain subscribers writing about it, it is now recognized as Gary's Folly, that's all, no more, no less....his hill to die on.

I wouldn't dismiss DS and his column, outright, as some Evil Canadian Media charlatan intent on destroying hope in Phoenix...because except for 1 city, no one cares, so there is no value to making crap up about the Coyotes to try to sell papers in Toronto or Vancouver, not to mention this is a Business paper and unless they too are mystery investors, they don't care.

Hell, I don't care, nor am I surprised by any sniff of any investor in Phoenix, I believe only a rich idiot or a grifter would invest in that team in that market. It's a train wreck now and the body count will only rise, yet I can't look away.

There is no conspiracy against the Coyotes, only the disbelief of anyone looking at this situation, that the history and the future prospects hold hope. Yet someone wants to invest? Why? What scam are they running? Thats all I want to know. No informed, intelligent or savvy investor would drop a nickel into this, yet some appear to be. So they have to have an ulterior motive.....

I somehow think that DS has no axe to grind with the Coyotes by publishing this, rather he finds this facet of the scam as interesting as the rest of us.

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Old
12-29-2012, 12:52 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
I consider posters on this site more reliable than Dave Shoalts.
Thanks we like you too

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12-29-2012, 01:31 AM
  #240
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With all of the predictions on Jamison's wherewithal to close the sale with the NHL, we should at the very least reflect on the fact that he has been the only suitor to actually consummate a lease agreement with the COG.

The journey to sign such a document had many more obstacles than any of the other attempts.

I find it difficult to see how any rational human being could call to question his financial resources at this stage of the process. This isn't Frodo Baggins sneaking into Mordor, with barely enough lembas to reach Mount Doom.

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12-29-2012, 01:55 AM
  #241
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This is an older interview, but was being replayed tonight on the FAN590.

"Personally, I don't think the NHL should be in Phoenix."
-- Former MLSE President and CEO Richard Peddie.

http://mp3skull.com/mp3/prime_time_sports.html (16:00 mark)

Not so positive words from a former top executive.

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12-29-2012, 07:14 AM
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
This is an older interview, but was being replayed tonight on the FAN590.

"Personally, I don't think the NHL should be in Phoenix."
-- Former MLSE President and CEO Richard Peddie.

http://mp3skull.com/mp3/prime_time_sports.html (16:00 mark)

Not so positive words from a former top executive.
Peddle's a good reason why the Leafs haven't made the playoffs in a while.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Peddie
sounds like it's more about money than about the product on the ice.
Personally, I don't think that MLSE are true to their fans!

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Old
12-29-2012, 07:16 AM
  #243
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Originally Posted by DesertDawg View Post
right after their last court case when they question the lease agreement back in June that allowed signatures for a referendum. They did state that they will look into the legality of the agreement, but they know that they can't prove excessive or that the courts want to decide what is excessive. There is no way that the other NHL teams will let GWI know what it costs to run their arenas to compare, so they can not possibly prove anything.
Haha, you're a tad over excited here bud.

There is tons of fuel out there for GWI to start their fire with and keep it burning. In fact the CoG provided quite a bit of it on their own, specifically speaking when Mr. Horatio Skeete put his foot in his mouth when he said that the actual cost to run the arena is estimated at $5-6M per year. Where is the other $5M? That's right it isn't a public subsidy at all.

Keep dreaming my friend.

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12-29-2012, 07:42 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
Haha, you're a tad over excited here bud.

There is tons of fuel out there for GWI to start their fire with and keep it burning. In fact the CoG provided quite a bit of it on their own, specifically speaking when Mr. Horatio Skeete put his foot in his mouth when he said that the actual cost to run the arena is estimated at $5-6M per year. Where is the other $5M? That's right it isn't a public subsidy at all.

Keep dreaming my friend.
The law states too excessive, and it wouldn't be the 1st time someone from the CofG misspoke and didn't account for all the costs that the Arena Manager has to spend to run every facet of all operations. I would expect more usage out of the arena than when the league owned it, so the cost will be more. GWI will not pursue it in court. It is too risky and the courts wouldn't want to judge what is too excessive. Not at the risk that if the team leaves it would do more damage to the economy of the area and the City still needs to pay off the cost of the arena. GWI will not risk losing in court, they can't afford it while pursuing other objectives. You give them too much credit.
That fire burned out a while ago...

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12-29-2012, 07:49 AM
  #245
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Not at the risk that if the team leaves it would do more damage to the economy of the area and the City still needs to pay off the cost of the arena.
Pay off the arena by spending extra hundreds of millions of dollars on top of the original arena payments? Sure, they just need to make more layoffs... which is also good for the economy of the area?

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12-29-2012, 08:34 AM
  #246
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Originally Posted by DesertDawg View Post
The law states too excessive, 1. and it wouldn't be the 1st time someone from the CofG misspoke and didn't account for all the costs that the Arena Manager has to spend to run every facet of all operations. I would expect more usage out of the arena than when the league owned it, so the cost will be more. GWI will not pursue it in court. It is too risky and 2. the courts wouldn't want to judge what is too excessive. 3. Not at the risk that if the team leaves it would do more damage to the economy of the area and the City still needs to pay off the cost of the arena. GWI will not risk losing in court, they can't afford it while pursuing other objectives. You give them too much credit.
That fire burned out a while ago...
Do you mean:
1. This is from the city manager, and mayor Scruggs made him repeat and he confirm, you call that misspoke?.

2. Does courts can choose if they want to judge or not judge a matter brought to them?

3. A judge take in account economical matters in a case over the law facts?

Would be curious to listen to a couple lawers here about this

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12-29-2012, 08:36 AM
  #247
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Originally Posted by DesertDawg View Post
The law states too excessive, and it wouldn't be the 1st time someone from the CofG misspoke and didn't account for all the costs that the Arena Manager has to spend to run every facet of all operations. I would expect more usage out of the arena than when the league owned it, so the cost will be more. GWI will not pursue it in court. It is too risky and the courts wouldn't want to judge what is too excessive. Not at the risk that if the team leaves it would do more damage to the economy of the area and the City still needs to pay off the cost of the arena. GWI will not risk losing in court, they can't afford it while pursuing other objectives. You give them too much credit.
That fire burned out a while ago...
The law covers public subsidies for private businesses, this is a public subsidy for a private business.

Excessive or not it doesn't change the fact that $300M of public money is subsidizing a privately owned business.

The law is in place to prevent such from happening. Don't sugar coat it.

Also FWIW GWI spent next to nothing when it came to knocking Hulsizer off the post. The threat of legal action was more than enough to send him packing, I'm sure if GJ is as smart as he thinks he is the second someone threatens him and CoG with legal action you can bet he walks. Maybe GJ isn't as smart as I give him credit for and he actually accepts the challenge in which case, no one owns the team, they continue to sit in limbo, all parties are paying expensive lawyer fees and losing more money which none have.

I get you want your team to stay but the want of a luxury is clouding your judgement and providing you with false hope.

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Old
12-29-2012, 09:40 AM
  #248
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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
First..... saying you're "looking into" something can mean anything from reading the statute to actually attempting to take an action utilizing it.

So my opinion of Shoat's article is dead nuts on (and I'm not the only one who thinks that, and we come from both sides of the fence.)

Shoats is heavily implying that Jamison actually made the attempt to recruit investors that way. If you want to buy that nonsense that's fine by me.

IMNSHO opinion.... Shoats has had exactly TWO solid sources to draw his articles from in the past four years. Richard Rodier and Phil Lieberman. Everything else is whatever he can cull, or dream up from bits of info here and there.

I consider posters on this site more reliable than Dave Shoalts.
TL, I agree that information on this site has actually been more relevant, up-to-date and useful than most news sites, including Shoalts and his newspaper.

However, I would not be at all surprised if one of the IEH guys wanted to look into the prospects of getting a Green Card or some other benefit out of the investment beyond the glitz of being an NHL "owner".

Regardless, it is still a bit odd that we know nothing of the "investors", don't you think? I would think that sometime soon Jamison would formally introduce the ownership group to the hockey world, and particularly the Coyotes' fans. After all, Glendale and Coyotes' fans deserve to know who will be owning the team.

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12-29-2012, 09:43 AM
  #249
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Originally Posted by AllByDesign View Post
With all of the predictions on Jamison's wherewithal to close the sale with the NHL, we should at the very least reflect on the fact that he has been the only suitor to actually consummate a lease agreement with the COG.

The journey to sign such a document had many more obstacles than any of the other attempts.

I find it difficult to see how any rational human being could call to question his financial resources at this stage of the process. This isn't Frodo Baggins sneaking into Mordor, with barely enough lembas to reach Mount Doom.
Even if Jamison has signed the lease, it isn't a "signed lease" until the team owner signs it. At this point, Jamison has resisted telling Glendale and the Coyotes' fans the identity of the actual team owners, to whom he will report if this deal is consummated.

I think that it is perfectly rational to call into question his financial resources at this stage. There is actually no rational explanation for withholding the identity of the ownership group if they are committed and have the financial wherewithal. I still think this deal gets done in Glendale, but I would not be at all surprised if we find out that Jamison's attempts to pull together the necessary capital has fallen short.

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12-29-2012, 10:05 AM
  #250
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Would be curious to listen to a couple lawers here about this
I doubt that you'll find one who cares enough to correct all of the inaccuracies. Besides, whats the probability that the original poster is formative enough to even comprehend the actual mechanics? 0%?

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