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Phoenix LXVII; Route66 - Aftermath

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Old
01-01-2013, 10:51 PM
  #351
MAROONSRoad
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
The Point??? The point is The List is almost a year old. Yes, you heard it right, A YEAR OLD!!! Not a month old. Not a week. Not a day. 1 YEAR OLD!!!
Not since the Book of Daniel have words of prophecy been so accurate. Not since the Book of Daniel have they changed so many lives.
And?

How many of those things actually occurred, Nostradamus? Not many.

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01-02-2013, 12:11 AM
  #352
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Couple questions:

What happens if Jamison doesn't get the sale together by January 31?

Would the new council vote have supported the $320 million subsidy package?

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01-02-2013, 12:26 AM
  #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
Couple questions:

What happens if Jamison doesn't get the sale together by January 31?

Would the new council vote have supported the $320 million subsidy package?
Then he'll have to use the other people's money on something else since he won't be getting a hockey team.

They were voted in to not to support it but who knows.

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Old
01-02-2013, 02:08 AM
  #354
TheLegend
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
Hey!!! Check out Post 107 of the If the NHL comes back, there has to be a big expansion thread. It is the Canadian version of TheLegend.
......And a Leaf's fan.

Wait...!!!!! I might insult Killion saying that.

Let me put my disguise on.....

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Old
01-02-2013, 02:21 AM
  #355
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Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
Right. I was saying that the reference to property values in the article was not intended to be a discussion of the current conditions and, accordingly, pointing out the data was old made very little sense.

As for the situation turning itself around, if you are exclusively referring to property values rebounding, sure. But the financial situation for Glendale most certainly is doom and gloom and the execution of the JIG Lease would make it exponentially worse. Or as Othmar succinctly put it: Glendale is going to get the piss kicked out of itself.

But there are also other perspectives to consider. From the vantage point of the NHL, JIG, or a fan who just wants to watch games, it's decided less doomy and gloomy.

Agreed on Glendale's financial situation. They've got a nightmare on their hands.

JMO.... If they didn't have the spring training facility lurking over them I feel they could eventually work their way out of it. Despite getting some relief this past week restructuring some of the bond debt, the only way out of that one is going to be getting some revenue generating development (hotels, restaurants) going around the facility as originally planned. But it's all still tied up in BK court.

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01-02-2013, 02:23 AM
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
Couple questions:

What happens if Jamison doesn't get the sale together by January 31?

Would the new council vote have supported the $320 million subsidy package?

Question #1: The AMF agreement dies. Game over.

Question #2: Highly unlikely.

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01-02-2013, 08:54 AM
  #357
Fidel Astro
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Originally Posted by Conflicted Habs fan View Post

This Summarizes well why there was a lockout and why there will continue to be lockouts:
a) Southern belt expansion in non hockey markets
b) Those who view the game only in terms of business without interest in the game.
c) Hockey viewed as a novelty, not as a national passion
d) Players viewed not as heroes but as cattle
c) Americanization of a Canadian product by means of mass consumer gimmickery and cheap promotionalism aimed at the lowest common denominator in American TV, also associated with corporate culture of cut throat anti-labour tactics befitting an offshore Chinese sweat shop
I agree with this 100%. I think it's unfortunate that a lot of American fans tend to take these types of comments as personal attacks rather than recognizing the truth in them.

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01-02-2013, 09:00 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post

JMO.... If they didn't have the spring training facility lurking over them I feel they could eventually work their way out of it. Despite getting some relief this past week restructuring some of the bond debt, the only way out of that one is going to be getting some revenue generating development (hotels, restaurants) going around the facility as originally planned. But it's all still tied up in BK court.
I think so too; that failed development is a lot worse than the failed Westgate development. I'm just guessing, but I think they will explore strategic default long before any significant development happens to fund the spring training debt. That baseball debt seems like the most logical starting point for the defaults. The JIG Lease is a pretty good candidate too though.

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Old
01-02-2013, 09:43 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
......And a Leaf's fan.

Wait...!!!!! I might insult Killion saying that.

Let me put my disguise on.....
Hey, I'd welcome Expansion Teams. Gotta be
someone we can beat... for a while at least.

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Old
01-02-2013, 11:03 AM
  #360
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Agreed on Glendale's financial situation. They've got a nightmare on their hands.

JMO.... If they didn't have the spring training facility lurking over them I feel they could eventually work their way out of it. Despite getting some relief this past week restructuring some of the bond debt, the only way out of that one is going to be getting some revenue generating development (hotels, restaurants) going around the facility as originally planned. But it's all still tied up in BK court.
Did they really get relief when they restructured? Do we have the final comparison on effective rate and term of old bonds to effective rate and term of new bonds?

Also, the NHL will try to spin whatever sale price they want like they did with Tampa. Taking over debt is still paying the NHL for the team. If they give the NHL $50 mil cash and take over $125 mil debt from the NHL, they are still paying $175 for the team, not $50 mil.

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Old
01-02-2013, 11:03 AM
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
Couple questions:

What happens if Jamison doesn't get the sale together by January 31?

Would the new council vote have supported the $320 million subsidy package?
The lease as signed says he has to finalize the purchase by Jan 31 to be valid. The council has the option of extending the deadline if they so choose.

Will they extend it?

Martinez and Knaack supported the lease so they would likely extend.

Alvarez opposed and would likely oppose again.

There are 3 new councilmembers and a new mayor. The mayor was against the deal when running for office. And I believe the coucilmember who unseaated Clarke was also opposed. Unsure about the last two.

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Old
01-02-2013, 11:07 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
As a treat to myself, AND TO ALL OF YOU, for my 5,000th post I am going to republish... THE LIST!!!!

1) The NHL will sell GJ the Coyotes for ~$75M to $100M.

2) The NHL will announce a sale price of $175M.

3) The GWI will huff and puff but do nothing.

4) The NHL will continue to say that they have NO plans for expansion.

5) The NHL will enter a negotiation with the NHLPA and insist on a 50-50 revenue sharing.

6) The NHLPA will say “HELL NO!!!!!”.

7) The NHL will then say “I’ll tell you what. You give us 50% and we will expand by 2 teams”.

8) The NHLPA will agree.

9) The gap between the ceiling and floor will increase – making the Coyote more inexpensive to run. The players will also get to play in Sochi in 2014.

10) The NHL will expand to QC in around 2014. The BoG will put a cool $200M in their pocket that they don’t have to share with the players.

11) The NHL will also expand to either Seattle (for $150 - $200M) or Toronto (2 for $300M). Again, the players will see none of it.

12) Gary Bettman will look like a hero which will makes us all feel a little sicker at night.


I can already hear the gnashing of teeth as more and more posters see more and more of it coming true.
The list again. How many are true?

1) Hasn't happened yet, not to mention you will never know the true purchase price; therefore, you can never claim that this actually happened.

2) Considering the sale has not come true this one is also wrong

3) Well, since I do not think the sale will actually happen, there will be (has been) no reason for the GWI to do anything up to today. Hardly a prediction so it is also wrong at the moment.

4) Well, this is standard procedure until expansion is announced. Again, no big surprise. This is more of a fact then a prediction. So no credit here

5) Again, I think this was expected from many. No big surprise here. If you were the first person on this board to mention the 50-50 you would get credit for this; however, I do not think you were.

6) The NHLPA actually said hell no to 57 - 43 not 50-50. I am willing to bet the NHLPA actually knew they were going to be 50 -50 long before negotiations actually started. So you are wrong here as well.

7) This is also not happening in these discussions. So wrong

8) Considering they will agree to a new CBA no big news here. This should never have been on the list since the 50 - 50 split has not really been the issues holding up the agreement. So wrong

9, 10, & 11) has not happened yet. However, your divine guess was just the rehash of what many had already discussed on this site Wrong, Wrong, and Wrong since expansion would happen eventually anyways.

12) Bettman will never look like a hero so wrong.

So how many are true? Well you take out the lines that are akin to me guessing the sun will come up tomorrow, zero. Thanks for playing.


Last edited by aj8000: 01-02-2013 at 05:32 PM.
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Old
01-02-2013, 11:44 AM
  #363
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im still confused as to what benefit it was for glendale/skeete to sign the amf just before christmas. what did that accomplish?

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Old
01-02-2013, 12:45 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
im still confused as to what benefit it was for glendale/skeete to sign the amf just before christmas. what did that accomplish?
Maybe preventing the new council to make any change to it?

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01-02-2013, 01:11 PM
  #365
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im still confused as to what benefit it was for glendale/skeete to sign the amf just before christmas. what did that accomplish?
Benefit is a subjective term, so I'm not trying to reply to that. The accomplishment was establishing the Effective Date.

*the JIG Lease is structure with two operative dates: Effective Date and Closing Date. When the city signed, the agreement became Effective and binding (@ Sec 3.1). However, neither party has to perform on the binding obligations until the Closing Date (@ Sec 17.2)

We can speculate as to why the agreement was structured in this manner, the most probable reasons would seem to be:

- by making the agreement binding upon the Effective Date, the city cannot get cold feet or have newly elected council members reverse course
- a binding agreement can be shopped to inspire potential investors (unless one is of the opinion that JIG already has all the necessary funds and it just hasn't been a convenient time to complete the sale)

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01-02-2013, 01:12 PM
  #366
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Maybe preventing the new council to make any change to it?
But I thought Skeete himself didn't recommend council endorse it?

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Old
01-02-2013, 01:36 PM
  #367
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I'm just curious what effect a potential start to the season will have on this whole process. If the rumored potential start by the end of the month is true (not holding my breath), would have to imagine that puck drop would be a major put up or shut up time for Jamison.

It's pretty convenient for to push stuff off for two weeks when nobody's losing money on the team, after all.

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Old
01-02-2013, 02:51 PM
  #368
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But I thought Skeete himself didn't recommend council endorse it?
I'm guessing that he didn't do this on his own initiative.

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01-02-2013, 03:49 PM
  #369
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I'm guessing that he didn't do this on his own initiative.
Skeete may have signed himself out of permanent employment with the COG.

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01-02-2013, 03:55 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
Benefit is a subjective term, so I'm not trying to reply to that. The accomplishment was establishing the Effective Date.

*the JIG Lease is structure with two operative dates: Effective Date and Closing Date. When the city signed, the agreement became Effective and binding (@ Sec 3.1). However, neither party has to perform on the binding obligations until the Closing Date (@ Sec 17.2)

We can speculate as to why the agreement was structured in this manner, the most probable reasons would seem to be:

- by making the agreement binding upon the Effective Date, the city cannot get cold feet or have newly elected council members reverse course
- a binding agreement can be shopped to inspire potential investors (unless one is of the opinion that JIG already has all the necessary funds and it just hasn't been a convenient time to complete the sale)
thanks CF. by that account then, it would sure seem to be little more than a scorched earth tactic designed to handcuff the incoming council for a couple of weeks in january.

i wonder who recommended that glendale sign it and thus establish that effective date. if i were a conspiracy theorist, i might suggest that bettman et. al. may have done just that so as to stop at least one cog from spinning while they implement their masterplan.

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01-02-2013, 04:39 PM
  #371
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I think so too; that failed development is a lot worse than the failed Westgate development. I'm just guessing, but I think they will explore strategic default long before any significant development happens to fund the spring training debt. That baseball debt seems like the most logical starting point for the defaults. The JIG Lease is a pretty good candidate too though.
It's possible that Glendale's debt has cross default clauses...

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Originally Posted by Tommy Hawk View Post
Did they really get relief when they restructured? Do we have the final comparison on effective rate and term of old bonds to effective rate and term of new bonds?
The CFO said they would realize a $9.5 million saving

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...muni-credit#p2

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01-02-2013, 04:41 PM
  #372
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It's possible that Glendale's debt has cross default clauses...



The CFO said they would realize a $9.5 million saving

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...muni-credit#p2
Imagine that. The COG managed to pass a sales tax increase and save $9.5 million by restructuring their bond debt, and they are still in deep financial trouble and face deep spending cuts, including on police and fire protection. That's pretty remarkable civic leadership, by any measuring stick.

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01-02-2013, 05:02 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
thanks CF. by that account then, it would sure seem to be little more than a scorched earth tactic designed to handcuff the incoming council for a couple of weeks in january.

i wonder who recommended that glendale sign it and thus establish that effective date. if i were a conspiracy theorist, i might suggest that bettman et. al. may have done just that so as to stop at least one cog from spinning while they implement their masterplan.
I would guess that JIG and the supporting council members recommended that Skeete sign it, thus binding the parties to the agreement. I would think it's designed to help secure investors or perhaps to satisfy conditions of existing capital investment agreements.

I don't think there is a master plan. I think that the NHL got lucky and found a council of imbeciles who they could coax into approving a $300MM subsidy. Now the league is trying to find someone(s) stupid enough to invest in an NHL franchise in Glendale. To date, even with the large scale subsidy, no one has been quite stupid enough to do it. Maybe that will change this month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas L
It's possible that Glendale's debt has cross default clauses...
Great point. I could even see The Visionaries going with an MBIA v BofA type scheme where the city tries to pay a point over par to amend the cross default language

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Old
01-02-2013, 05:18 PM
  #374
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Skeete may have signed himself out of permanent employment with the COG.
I read somewhere that he's already a candidate for the CM position in another city in the Midwest. But I can't confirm it.

Given the recent enlightenment over his involvement with the illegal fund transfers, I would surmise the writing's on the wall.

Makes you wonder at times how these guys get these positions to begin with???

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01-02-2013, 05:19 PM
  #375
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I agree with this 100%. I think it's unfortunate that a lot of American fans tend to take these types of comments as personal attacks rather than recognizing the truth in them.
that is because they are personal attacks.

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