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Phoenix LXVII; Route66 - Aftermath

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Old
01-14-2013, 11:16 AM
  #876
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Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
i can think of 324,000,000 reasons ... the new council loses and any all leverage in this situation if it agrees unconditionally to extend the deadline. the new mayor would be an absolute fool to do so.
Ya "think" huh? This is Route66
were on, and most decidedly not...


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01-14-2013, 11:26 AM
  #877
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Ya, see, thats a problem right there. Didnt anyone tell you guys that in the rankings of "Least Respected Musicians" Banjo Players are like, right near the bottom? Mebbe one notch above Accordionists (which btw enjoys much popularity in the Winnipeg region)... never mind the stigmas & stereotypes surrounding that whole Deliverance dealeo. Honestly, pickup a Mandolin, a Guitar, Hell, scare your friends and neighbours with a rusty old saw and a bow, a wash basin & broom pole bass, but leave off that ****** Banjo already will ya? You'll never get any respect messing around with that thing.
Oh I don't know, if you aspire to get into the Guinness Book of Records...just best this guy:


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01-14-2013, 11:34 AM
  #878
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Ya "think" huh? This is Route66
were on, and most decidedly not...

huh?

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01-14-2013, 11:40 AM
  #879
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U-turn.

 
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01-14-2013, 12:03 PM
  #880
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I think it's "touch and go". It will depend on political calculations, since the mayor and council members are politicians and none of the AMF comes out of their pockets. They've probably seen that Glendale residents don't care that much about the situation, so why rock the boat? They can always blame the previous council if there is flak.

It will be interesting to see whether the NHL will try to twist Glendale's arm for subsidy support this year if Jamison doesn't come through. I think Glendale city council might well rebuff that sort of proposal, since it could end up being a political liability (if they pay millions and the Coyotes leave anyway). If Jamison doesn't close the sale, I think that the NHL will be on the hook for losses this year. That will make a local sale even more difficult, if it affects the future sale price. The NHL would probably just try to recoup the losses through a high-priced sale of relocation fee from a new owner in another city.
I thought the NHL would suspend operations before they operated the team this season and paid the losses. So, clearly, I'm a bit too cynical of the NHLs motives. It remains to be determined if JIG will close. However, if JIG comes up short, what is the NHL going to use as leverage in Glendale? The league will already be committed to the 2013 schedule by Jan 30. How are they going to extract even a portion of the AMF subsidy at that point? I mean someone, somewhere in Glendale understands leverage and bargaining position, right?

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01-14-2013, 12:12 PM
  #881
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I thought the NHL would suspend operations before they operated the team this season and paid the losses. So, clearly, I'm a bit too cynical of the NHLs motives. It remains to be determined if JIG will close. However, if JIG comes up short, what is the NHL going to use as leverage in Glendale? The league will already be committed to the 2013 schedule by Jan 30. How are they going to extract even a portion of the AMF subsidy at that point? I mean someone, somewhere in Glendale understands leverage and bargaining position, right?
I hope the new Glendale Mayor and City Council members really understand the numbers associated with any lease. Then, they have all the leverage:

"Listen, Mr Bettman. Your AMF is $6M. That's the going rate. No more. And, the same for next year. No more 'subsidies.' We're done with that game."

Now, THAT would be leverage.

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01-14-2013, 12:20 PM
  #882
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huh?
Ya, as Whileee speculates just above my post & Dado indicated above & below, they can cover themselves rather neatly through transition, though whether or not they accede to any requests from the NHL pursuant to paying an AMF should more time be requested, its hard to say, let alone somehow "extend" the previous agreement giving Jamison more time, and of course your quite correct that they do lose all leverage if they do so. But, politicians being what they are....

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U-turn.

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01-14-2013, 12:25 PM
  #883
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I thought the NHL would suspend operations before they operated the team this season and paid the losses. So, clearly, I'm a bit too cynical of the NHLs motives. It remains to be determined if JIG will close. However, if JIG comes up short, what is the NHL going to use as leverage in Glendale? The league will already be committed to the 2013 schedule by Jan 30. How are they going to extract even a portion of the AMF subsidy at that point? I mean someone, somewhere in Glendale understands leverage and bargaining position, right?
That was one of the rumours....here's a link to one:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...es-future.html

Quote:
2. If the Coyotes can somehow go all the way, what effect would it have on the team's immediate future? Does it save the franchise or simply postpone the inevitable? Or does it make a sale and relocation even more likely? - Michael Cuthbert

I think it postpones the inevitable. I know the league is happy that the playoffs are on in Phoenix and helping with the bottom line. The league will continue to look at all options that keep the team in Phoenix, but from what I am hearing it is pretty much a done deal that the team will be elsewhere next season. One option I have heard is to fold the franchise and have an expansion area take the team over for next season. This allows you to get the best price possible back for the team.
Much like when Al Strachan leaked out the Atlanta-to-Winnipeg rumour, and he ended up being bang on.
It's funny to look back on all the rumours and see which one ended up being true....

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01-14-2013, 12:30 PM
  #884
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
I hope the new Glendale Mayor and City Council members really understand the numbers associated with any lease. Then, they have all the leverage:

"Listen, Mr Bettman. Your AMF is $6M. That's the going rate. No more. And, the same for next year. No more 'subsidies.' We're done with that game."

Now, THAT would be leverage.
The fact that the NHL began a season while playing in a building on a month-to-month lease seems to be a fair amount of leverage for the city. Not that I think Glendale has the skill or will to utilize it. Anyway, something along the lines of: "you want to play NHL games in Jobing.com Arena in Feb 2013? Fine. But we'll be needing you to ink a deal for the next 3 years, with no AMF of any kind." Which would be amazingly similar to what the NHL does to fans when the home team makes the playoffs. "You want tickets to this years playoffs? Fine. But we'll be needing you to ink a deal for next years season tickets."

*All of under the assumption that JIG does not close, not a statement that JIG will not close. It's also never going to happen under any circumstance but it is somewhat amusing to think about Glendale operating as a competent bargaining unit.

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01-14-2013, 12:32 PM
  #885
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thnx for clarifying, killion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
I hope the new Glendale Mayor and City Council members really understand the numbers associated with any lease. Then, they have all the leverage:

"Listen, Mr Bettman. Your AMF is $6M. That's the going rate. No more. And, the same for next year. No more 'subsidies.' We're done with that game."

Now, THAT would be leverage.
notwithstanding the lack of hockey these past couple of months, who exactly has been responsible for managing the arena? who has been paying the utility bills?

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01-14-2013, 12:38 PM
  #886
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Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
I thought the NHL would suspend operations before they operated the team this season and paid the losses. So, clearly, I'm a bit too cynical of the NHLs motives. It remains to be determined if JIG will close. However, if JIG comes up short, what is the NHL going to use as leverage in Glendale? The league will already be committed to the 2013 schedule by Jan 30. How are they going to extract even a portion of the AMF subsidy at that point? I mean someone, somewhere in Glendale understands leverage and bargaining position, right?
Thats a tough one. Acting Interim Manager Skeete wasnt overwhelmingly warm to the agreement, while Weiers & others spoke much but actually said little, so Im not exactly clear what their positions might be and whether or not their prepared to play hard or softball with Jamison & the NHL at this stage in the game. We just dont have enough information to make a determination one way or the other at this point in time. Whatever theyve said on the election trail are simply stories for the campfire. What they actually do, respond, deal with the situation once in office, can be the difference between night & day.

As for the NHL, I would assume they'd employ the same methods used effectively in the past. That Jamison requires more time and they expect the COG to honour the past agreements pursuant to the payment of AMF's, albeit in this case pro-rated due to the shortened hockey season. They could easily make a case for themselves with a minimal amount of arm twisting to extract it I should think, the newly minted Council Members & Mayor justifying the payment as they too require "more time" to fully study & grasp the situation, the ramifications should the team have to move, that their in "search mode" for a City Manager to quarterback negotiations & so on, so they'll simply adhere to the status quo.

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01-14-2013, 12:50 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
I thought the NHL would suspend operations before they operated the team this season and paid the losses. So, clearly, I'm a bit too cynical of the NHLs motives. It remains to be determined if JIG will close. However, if JIG comes up short, what is the NHL going to use as leverage in Glendale? The league will already be committed to the 2013 schedule by Jan 30. How are they going to extract even a portion of the AMF subsidy at that point? I mean someone, somewhere in Glendale understands leverage and bargaining position, right?
Or not cynical enough. What if Garry made the bet last Summer that the lockout would cut or cancel this season so his lost would be minimized anyway? No need to rush a relocation or a sale in that scenario.

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01-14-2013, 12:55 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
I thought the NHL would suspend operations before they operated the team this season and paid the losses. So, clearly, I'm a bit too cynical of the NHLs motives. It remains to be determined if JIG will close. However, if JIG comes up short, what is the NHL going to use as leverage in Glendale? The league will already be committed to the 2013 schedule by Jan 30. How are they going to extract even a portion of the AMF subsidy at that point? I mean someone, somewhere in Glendale understands leverage and bargaining position, right?
It's not like folks haven't been suggesting this to Glendale's city council members... (May, 2011)

Quote:
Mr. Dranias remarked he was speaking to the item at hand. He explained the critical question was the claim that $25 million is needed to cover the management of the arena. He asked if Council had received a breakdown of operating expenses that are budgeted for the coming year that distinguished between expenses to maintain the arena verses what is necessary to maintain the arena only because there is a hockey team there. He indicated, if they had not been provided that breakdown, they, in good faith, cannot determine if the $25 million was a subsidy. He noted they had achieved something with this $25 million agreement and have called the NHL’s bluff because they need the city more than the city needs them. He explained the NHL has a master plan to keep hockey in the south and southwest and had abandoned their emergency talks to get the deal done quickly when it was clear it could not be done. He suggests Council use this leverage wisely.
(http://www.glendaleaz.com/Clerk/agen...tes/051011.pdf).

Or this.... (February, 2011)

Quote:
Andrew Marwick, a Phoenix resident, commented on the reduced library hours and the city’s plan for service facilities in the future. He stated the city had high priorities that needed to be dealt with and should spend money on that instead of the Coyotes. He believes the Coyotes will never make money and will only lose money for the city. He discussed earlier deals regarding the sale of the Coyotes. He disagrees with the Council’s decision to subsidize the Coyotes in any way and encourages them to call the NHL’s bluff.
(http://www.glendaleaz.com/Clerk/agen.../021511-SM.pdf).

It should be noted that both of these pleas in council meetings were before the NHL was forced to precipitously relocate the Thrashers to Winnipeg, thereby eliminating that relocation option for the NHL. They were also just before the COG decided to hand over another $25 million to the NHL for their operating losses in the 2011-12 season.

It seems obvious that the NHL is a much more effective negotiator than the COG, largely because it knows exactly what cards the COG is holding, and the COG has know idea what is up the NHL's sleeve.

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01-14-2013, 01:02 PM
  #889
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...notwithstanding the lack of hockey these past couple of months, who exactly has been responsible for managing the arena? who has been paying the utility bills?
That would be the NHL, and as the Coyotes offices are located in the job, they'd have to be paying the utilities, maintenance, security etc, along with continuing to pay off-ice hockey & operational personnel of course. The NHL has some sort of loose arrangement with AEG pursuant to the operations of the building, and with that giant being dismembered & its units being up for sale, hard to say how active (or not) they might be through their "Live" Division in continuing to aggressively put together tours & events that might include stops in Glendale. Certainly they havent done much of anything really over the past 3-4 seasons, what little they have provided quite possibly drying up altogether.

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01-14-2013, 01:27 PM
  #890
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There is no proof either way that any monies are in escrow.

Your post is just more speculation based upon what you hope it will be.
MH had known escrow money! GJ has no money so escrow is not an option for this fraud!

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01-14-2013, 01:30 PM
  #891
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I would say receiving some guidance more than taking orders but maybe that's semantics.

a. yes
b. yes; to the extent that Jamison works with a cooperative council that the league cultivated
c. yes
d. seems logical

But none of that would suggest Jamison only exists as an act directed by the NHL. If Jamison failed to close but the NHL still compelled the new Glendale council to perform on the subsidy with the league as the beneficiary, then I could see the "it's all a ruse" angle. We'll see what happens but that doesn't sound very probable. Anyway, I was just curious to hear what the perceived payoff was for the JIG effort to be nothing but an act.
Stay tuned, GJ will walk with something, the only thing that he won`t be taking with him is the Phoenix Coyotes hockey team!!

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01-14-2013, 01:35 PM
  #892
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It might be interesting to recall what Jamison said to Mayor Scruggs during a somewhat heated exchange at the city council meeting at the end of November 27, 2012.

"When it's time to present the money and close the deal, we will do so. We have not had the opportunity yet to do that." In this regard, he was indicating that they didn't have a lease.

This was in the context of Scruggs challenging Jamison with the information that COG officials had repeatedly sent Scruggs messages indicating that Jamison had the money and was ready to close the deal.

That makes it seem a bit curious that we are now hearing that Jamison is still looking for investors.

He was also disingenuous in his answers to city council in that he made it sound as though he could not pursue discussions with the NHL until he could present them with the elements of the lease agreement. I am pretty sure that the NHL knew exactly what was going into the lease long before it was formally approved at city council, and could have been working with Jamison on their purchase agreement in parallel.

As some of us noted at the time, he didn't give off a particularly confident or forthright vibe at the fateful November council meeting.

If he is not able to conclude the deal this month, he has a lot to answer for.
LOL, if walks from the deal the last thing we will see are his empty coattails! There will be no presser with his mea culpa, no apologies to the fans or taxpayers for having put them through this charade! He will exit left and will be heard from only once he has extracted his acting fee from the short guy in NYC!!!

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01-14-2013, 01:39 PM
  #893
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Stay tuned, GJ will walk with something, the only thing that he won`t be taking with him is the Phoenix Coyotes hockey team!!
If GJ doesn't succeed in purchasing the Coyotes, my guess is that he'll fade into obscurity rather quickly. Maybe he was a miracle worker in San Jose and I'm completely misreading him, but the guy doesn't give me much in the way of positive vibes. He seems full of meaningless platitudes, old-fashioned notions and instincts, and he's bland, bland, bland... It would be one thing if he came across as being a really sincere and candid guy, but...

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01-14-2013, 01:49 PM
  #894
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
I hope the new Glendale Mayor and City Council members really understand the numbers associated with any lease. Then, they have all the leverage:

"Listen, Mr Bettman. Your AMF is $6M. That's the going rate. No more. And, the same for next year. No more 'subsidies.' We're done with that game."

Now, THAT would be leverage.
If i am the mayor, the AMF simply will not be on the agenda until June 6th!

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01-14-2013, 01:56 PM
  #895
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How long does it take to buy a franchise really?

Winnipeg bought the Trashers in what seems like a couple days. GJ had 18months and he still hasn't bought it. It's been 6 weeks since the council agreed to the new AMF. Come on! Buy or fold, 18months of tire kicking, that's insane!

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01-14-2013, 02:04 PM
  #896
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Probably his daughter in law spent five minutes the other day before taking junior to pre-school!
I dunno. Its strange. This Lynna Jean who put together that linked 1/2 pager is a Commercial Photographer out of California. Nice work actually (the photographs), but no experience/portfolio that I can find relating to web based design services.

Then about a week ago some guy in Phoenix by the name of Max Fose who has a firm called Integrated Web Services (design etc) and is apparently doing work on behalf of Arizona Hockey Partners LLC is quoted in an article about Jamison as "working hard trying to close the sale by the end of the month" (or words to that affect).

So I checked that guy out.... Nothing in the realm of pro sports nor even a major national advertiser or whatever that he's ever worked with on his site. Just the usual palather about "fully integrated brand/product/service design" yadda yadda yadda. Did a site for the "Texas Tenors". Country music meets opera I suppose but I digress...

Now, you'd think that if someone was just 17 days away from closing what is effectively a deal worth nearly a half a billion dollars ($324M from Glendale and at least $170M+ going to the NHL) that you'd be seeing some pretty sophisticated communication, and that would just have to feature in letters writ large web based & social media communications to the people of Glendale & Phoenix, the fans, as in "Game On, Get Ready, Step Right Up & Get Your Tickets" and so on & so forth huh?

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01-14-2013, 02:05 PM
  #897
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How long does it take to buy a franchise really?

Winnipeg bought the Trashers in what seems like a couple days. GJ had 18months and he still hasn't bought it. It's been 6 weeks since the council agreed to the new AMF. Come on! Buy or fold, 18months of tire kicking, that's insane!
You can't buy something without money or credit something that gramps Jamison seems to lack.

Looking at a big change in the colour of Coyotes uniforms for next season, scarlet red will be replaced by a lighter shade of blue.


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01-14-2013, 02:22 PM
  #898
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The National Hockey League season will begin this weekend and business owners near Jobing.com Arena couldn’t be happier as the return of Phoenix Coyotes hockey will mean more crowds and higher profits.

The 2012-2013 hockey season was supposed to start in October, but a contract dispute with the players union erased the first half of the season. Fans in Phoenix Coyotes gear have been noticeably absent from the arena and the surrounding shops, bars and restaurants in the Westgate Entertainment District.

Along with fans, another group was also missing from Westgate: the workers who usually keep the arena running, and who often grab their lunch at the nearby eateries.

Ebbi Weiss, managing member at Which Wich sandwich shop, said arena workers came into the shop nearly every day.

“That’s what we missed the most,” Weiss said. “They came in so often that you consider them friends.”

The November opening of Tanger outlet mall at Westgate eased some of the pain.

“The Tanger outlets probably mitigated the real sting, but it’s still not the same,” said Don Rinehart, president of the Glendale Chamber of Commerce.

Still, he said it was a relief to see the lockout end. “It’s over and hockey is back,” he said.

Tanger shoppers took the edge off the absent hockey clientele, but the out-of-town visitors who flock to watch their teams play the Coyotes generally bring more disposable cash to spend than locals, said Stephen Ratliff, general manager of Calico Jack’s Cantina.

“We definitely saw a change of clientele without seeing hockey fans,” Ratliff said.
http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...ness-abrk.html

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01-14-2013, 02:38 PM
  #899
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The fact that the NHL began a season while playing in a building on a month-to-month lease seems to be a fair amount of leverage for the city. Not that I think Glendale has the skill or will to utilize it. Anyway, something along the lines of: "you want to play NHL games in Jobing.com Arena in Feb 2013? Fine. But we'll be needing you to ink a deal for the next 3 years, with no AMF of any kind." Which would be amazingly similar to what the NHL does to fans when the home team makes the playoffs. "You want tickets to this years playoffs? Fine. But we'll be needing you to ink a deal for next years season tickets."

*All of under the assumption that JIG does not close, not a statement that JIG will not close. It's also never going to happen under any circumstance but it is somewhat amusing to think about Glendale operating as a competent bargaining unit.
Doesn't the NHL have the option to renew the AMUL monthly?

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01-14-2013, 02:42 PM
  #900
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.... well, howzabout this www.arizonahockeypartners.com fancy lookin website mesa? GoDaddy's "deluxe" template Maing.
Beayootiful. Only missing one item:

"Is Ice Hot or Cold? Your answer shows you are a person."

BTW, the IceEdgeHoldings.com domain name is for sale through GoDaddy.

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