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Phoenix LXVII; Route66 - Aftermath

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01-15-2013, 07:42 PM
  #1001
XX
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Originally Posted by Fidel Astro View Post
It just angries up the blood.
Why are you and so many like you so frothing mad over the Coyotes? Is it the 'it's our game!' crap again? You got your precious jets back, at the expense of other fans. Be quiet.

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Off the ice, Coyotes fans hope prospective buyer Greg Jamison can close on his purchase of the NHL-owned franchise before the end of the month and a city of Glendale deadline sets in. A $308 million, 20-year arena lease and management deal is on the table now.

A source close to Jamison’s bid says he is on track to finalize the purchase and keep the team in Phoenix.
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...-campaign.html

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01-15-2013, 07:43 PM
  #1002
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Well there is no doubt there are great fans there. Unfortunatly not enought or the team would not be in this mess.
Sharks sold out every game this past season and still didn't make a profit. What is your point?

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01-15-2013, 07:51 PM
  #1003
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Originally Posted by awfulwaffle View Post
Sharks sold out every game this past season and still didn't make a profit. What is your point?
there are enuff fans, but they are cheap? or, management should be charging more for suds?

this is a good point. not only does a successful franchise have to put butts in the seats, they also gotta charge a realistic price for them. san jose has accomplished the first big step. phoenix hasnt.

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01-15-2013, 07:57 PM
  #1004
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Originally Posted by awfulwaffle View Post
Sharks sold out every game this past season and still didn't make a profit. What is your point?
Well Phoenix cant even fill out the seats with ridiculously low prices. At least San Jose can.

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01-15-2013, 08:03 PM
  #1005
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Originally Posted by Fidel Astro View Post
The problem is that they've been dicking around for years now and not getting anything done. The fanbase was small to begin with, and I have no doubt it dwindles somewhat every month the ownership crisis continues. Add the lockout-related fan loss to that, and assuming Gramps does pull a rabbit out of his ass and saves the team, there's not going to be much of a crowd to play in front of.

So what's the point? Why go through all this rigamarole for so long if the end result is going to be a team that has an owner, but an empty arena? What does that prove? Does Bettman get to pat himself on the back about how the sunbelt travesty "worked" just because some chump buys the Yotes?

It doesn't solve any of the problems. Sure, the team'll be out of the NHL's hands directly, but you have to be crazy to think a new owner is going to suddenly turn the ship around for this team. It's still going to hemmorhage money. It's still going to pull up the rear in attendance numbers. It's still going to have the cheapest prices in the league if there's any hope of attracting a crowd.

I've said it before, but the problem is cultural, and as such, it's unsolvable.

Look at it this way: I'm a Winnipegger. We have a pro baseball team here (I guess it's minor pro, but whatever, it's a high level). I have no interest in baseball whatsoever. It bores the living **** out of me. I'm not going to a baseball game. You could give me free season tickets and I may not even show up. The team won the pennant or championship or whatever they call it, last season. Don't care. It wasn't that I was ill-informed -- I saw ads for the team's games throughout the season. I read about them all year long in the sports section of the daily paper. There was tons of hype around the playoffs. I could probably name a number of players on the team off the top of my head. But I'm not going.

Because it's *baseball*. And I don't care.

I've seen so many people in this ongoing Phoenix debate suggest that all the Yotes need is better advertising, making people more aware that games are happening. Maybe that will attract a few people on the fence, but I get the impression most people down there feel about hockey the way I feel about baseball. They don't give a mother****.

How do you solve that problem? You can't. At least with the Goldeyes, the stadium is small enough that if they get a few thousand patrons out per game, they probably make decent money and the place looks relatively full.

The Yotes, on the other hand, need to sell a hell of a lot more tickets to make any $, and the place always looks empty on TV. There's no way around it. You really think Gramps Jamison is gonna make a difference? Get the **** outta here.

It's not going to matter. It's a bunch of people wasting money for no reason, and *at the expense of real hockey fans*. Move this team to Quebec, instant sellouts *tomorrow*. Immediately. Jets-style. Keep it in AZ, and it'll just get worse every year, new owner or otherwise, and pictures of half-empty arenas will continue to make the NHL a laughingstock.
I see where you are coming from; however, I still have to disagree in the end. If bunch of people decide that they want to purchase the Yotes and keep them in Arizona I have no problem with that. If they lose their money that is not my concern or problem.

I know I said this already but the attendance is not the issue you think it is. The NHL is not the laughing stock you think it is because the yotes have low attendance because the only people who notice the actual attendance are diehard fans who happen to post in this thread.

Lets pretend that the yotes are moved and the attendance at the new location goes up. Does that mean the NYI are the new laughing stock? The NYI new area is not likely going to help since it has a capacity of 14,500 for hockey. We better move them to another city. Based on the ESPN attendance records we continue to move up the list to Dallas, Columbus, and Anaheim As they fall to the bottom of the attendance list they will be the next laughing stock so we better move them next. Then who do we have? Winnipeg? Well if we are on the bottom of the list now, guess what, based on everyone complaint about lowest attendance team making the NHL a laughing stock well Winnipeg with it's small arena will be it.

Other than the top 2% of the hockey fan base, no one cares if the Yotes have 1,000 people at the game or if it is sold out.

Other than the top 2% of the hockey fan base, no one cares if the yotes are giving away tickets for cheap since they do not even know how much they are being sold for.

The price of the tickets only matters to the owner to determine how much money they will make or lose. Once you start the argument that the yotes should move because the tickets are cheaper you start this argument. The yotes ticket is the cheapest in the league so they should be moved, but you can get a any NHL team ticket less than a Leaf's ticket; therefore should every team be forced to charge the same price as the leafs or face relocation?

Personally, the fans in Arizona that purchased tickets to the game would be real hockey fans. One could say that Quebec could have built a new arena years ago and purchased a AHL team like what happened in Winnipeg, built a relationship with the NHL to see if they could get a team. If they had done that, it would have been likely that Atlanta would have gone to Quebec first since they lost their team first. It is also very likely the yotes would have moved back to Winnipeg as well if there were two arenas ready to take a team 1.5 years ago. Does the fact that they did not try to build an arena earlier mean they are not real hockey fans? Whose fault is it that Quebec is still waiting for a team?

From a strictly business point of view, attendance needs to go up, ticket prices need to go up, advertising dollars need to go up, beer and snack prices and sales need to go up to give this team a chance to break even. These are facts, and if a group of business men and women feel that they have a plan to accomplish the above they they have every right to. That being said, I do not think this deal will ever go through once I consider the business factors. (Sorry yotes fans, I am not trying to be a jerk, just looking at the facts and drawing a conclusion. unfortunately, my conclusion is that this deal is dead)

BTW, the Yotes are not making the NHL a laughing stock many of you want to believe. They are Pacific Division Champions and that is hardly making the NHL a laughing stock. If any team is making the NHL a laughing stock I would say it is Columbus with their record last year (29 wins). To the average fan, they really do not care that Columbus is last since they only care that their team was not the worst team.

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01-15-2013, 08:04 PM
  #1006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
there are enuff fans, but they are cheap? or, management should be charging more for suds?

this is a good point. not only does a successful franchise have to put butts in the seats, they also gotta charge a realistic price for them. san jose has accomplished the first big step. phoenix hasnt.
This is not a ticket price problem. It's an NHL problem! Look at every other major sports league. Hell, NFL could nearly, if not profit, off of their TV deal alone!!! It's a major setback for the NHL that their TV deal SUCKS compared to the other sports. It's that simple. Yes, the NHL is a gate driven league, and we all know that. But how many markets can be viable with just ticket sales? Point being, the Sharks, that sold out, but still didn't drive a profit, even with a better local TV deal I'm sure than the Coyotes.

This is a big picture issue, not just a Coyotes issue.

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01-15-2013, 08:05 PM
  #1007
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Well Phoenix cant even fill out the seats with ridiculously low prices. At least San Jose can.
You still didn't make a point. I'm waiting for it.

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01-15-2013, 08:05 PM
  #1008
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
Unless you are a Mormon or something like that, there is nothing "illegal" or immorale about "working" on a Sunday. Plenty of people do. Your comment makes no sense.


You have mocked, put down and ridiculed a certain fanbase (and it's city) many many times in the past, and still do to this day, albeit on a much smaller scale these days. You are no better than the rest of us here.

Just keeing it real for you, bro.
Yeah.... but everyone makes fun of the Leafs...

Seriously though... I have no idea about what you are talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidel Astro View Post


I understand that there's a small group of fans who are passionate about their team and will be upset if (when) it leaves, but I don't have a lot of sympathy for them. If they put together some kind of real grassroots effort to save their team (like we did in Winnipeg, which was way before the Internet made this kind of **** extremely easy to organize), I would shut the **** up about them forever, and I feel like a lot of other naysayers would too.
All of us here are hockey fans, and most have a passion for a particular team. Continuously beating on people who are essentially just like you doesn't help anyone.

You'd think that attendance would be an important topic in a BOH setting? In this thread it isn't. We know that it is at the root of the issue, but it has nothing to do with the present story. Most re-hashing of the discussion is in poor taste and intended as barbs rather than platforms to discussion.

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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
Most businesses don't open on Sundays. Mostly only retail does. and I think his point was that Sunday is the day when the most people wouldn't have work commitments, maybe outside of late night. Why so many people are responding to his post which was obviously just written to entice is beyond me.
Not meant to entice at all. But thank you for recognizing the validity of my "Sunday Point"

You see someone used the article about 5k fans attending in Winnipeg as a comparison to Phoenix on a Monday mroning. The comparison means nothing. Both points equally as useless.

However the OP's intent was to attack other members here without provocation. My point was to show that perspective can allow for different interpretations of the data presented. Evidently it hurts for both sides.

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Hey, be fair. Having a Mauritius collection sounded like a really good idea at the time...


Of course a "Welcome Back ABD" would also qualify as a possible response to my post.

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Old
01-15-2013, 08:07 PM
  #1009
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Originally Posted by awfulwaffle View Post
You still didn't make a point. I'm waiting for it.
Let me spell it out for you: Phoenix is a terrible market... thats my point. But hey there are some good fans there...

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Old
01-15-2013, 08:08 PM
  #1010
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Well Phoenix cant even fill out the seats with ridiculously low prices. At least San Jose can.
and your point is?

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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Let me spell it out for you: Phoenix is a terrible market... thats my point. But hey there are some good fans there...
Ok, then in your opinion, you think it is terrible market.

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01-15-2013, 08:08 PM
  #1011
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I guess the installation ceremony to usher in the new council is going on now.

Are there winds of change a coming or more status quo.

I guess we'll find out soon on thread LXVIII ?

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01-15-2013, 08:08 PM
  #1012
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Let me spell it out for you: Phoenix is a terrible market... thats my point. But hey there are some good fans there...
Are you saying San Jose is a good market? What defines a good market?

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01-15-2013, 08:10 PM
  #1013
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Originally Posted by awfulwaffle View Post
This is not a ticket price problem. It's an NHL problem! Look at every other major sports league. Hell, NFL could nearly, if not profit, off of their TV deal alone!!! It's a major setback for the NHL that their TV deal SUCKS compared to the other sports. It's that simple. Yes, the NHL is a gate driven league, and we all know that. But how many markets can be viable with just ticket sales? Point being, the Sharks, that sold out, but still didn't drive a profit, even with a better local TV deal I'm sure than the Coyotes.

This is a big picture issue, not just a Coyotes issue.
If its a gate revenu league, move teams where there will be such revenues. Then instead of sending revenu sharing to lame duck market like Phoenix and Florida, send it to markets like San Jose.

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01-15-2013, 08:12 PM
  #1014
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
If its a gate revenu league, move teams where there will be such revenues. Then instead of sending revenu sharing to lame duck market like Phoenix and Florida, send it to markets like San Jose.
Are you that dense? San Jose sold out every game and didn't turn a profit. I'm pretty sure it was 13 teams that didn't turn a profit this past year? Correct me if I'm wrong. But what makes San Jose so much better than others, just because they sell out? If they don't turn a profit, them selling out every game doesn't mean anything. You aren't a business man are you?

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01-15-2013, 08:12 PM
  #1015
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Originally Posted by awfulwaffle View Post
Are you saying San Jose is a good market? What defines a good market?
Its not the greatest market but at least there is enought fan to fill out the arena. Filling out the arena or close to it is a good indicator of a good market.

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01-15-2013, 08:13 PM
  #1016
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Originally Posted by awfulwaffle View Post
Are you that dense? San Jose sold out every game and didn't turn a profit. I'm pretty sure it was 13 teams that didn't turn a profit this past year? Correct me if I'm wrong. But what makes San Jose so much better than others, just because they sell out? If they don't turn a profit, them selling out every game doesn't mean anything. You aren't a business man are you?
Well them not turning a profit is more a case of spending to much, then revenue.

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01-15-2013, 08:15 PM
  #1017
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Well them not turning a profit is more a case of spending to much, then revenue.
And the other teams that didn't? Are you just so focused on getting a team back to QC you don't care about the other aspects?!

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01-15-2013, 08:16 PM
  #1018
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
If its a gate revenu league, move teams where there will be such revenues. Then instead of sending revenu sharing to lame duck market like Phoenix and Florida, send it to markets like San Jose.
So what you are saying is, if the Yotes are moved, they should go and become Toronto (2) since the revenues of such a move would far exceed that of Quebec and they would instantly become the #2 in total revenues for the league? Got it.

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01-15-2013, 08:19 PM
  #1019
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So what you are saying is, if the Yotes are moved, they should go and become Toronto (2) since the revenues of such a move would far exceed that of Quebec and they would instantly become the #2 in total revenues for the league? Got it.
I believe all of Toronto, Quebec City, and Seattle should get team, instead of lame duck market like Phoenix, Florida, Dallas, Tampa Bay...

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01-15-2013, 08:25 PM
  #1020
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
I believe all of Toronto, Quebec City, and Seattle should get team, instead of lame duck market like Phoenix, Florida, Dallas, Tampa Bay...
Well since the other three are not currently rumored to be moving, you should have no problem if the yotes are moved to a location that can generate more revenue then Quebec?

So if Seattle turns out to be able to earn more revenue then Quebec they should get the Yotes?

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01-15-2013, 08:27 PM
  #1021
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Originally Posted by aj8000 View Post
Well since the other three are not currently rumored to be moving, you should have no problem if the yotes are moved to a location that can generate more revenue then Quebec?

So if Seattle turns out to be able to earn more revenue then Quebec they should get the Yotes?
Unfortunetly none of them have temporary venues, and no new building is being built in these cities. So Quebec is the only city ready to have the Yotes.

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01-15-2013, 08:32 PM
  #1022
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Unfortunetly none of them have temporary venues, and no new building is being built in these cities. So Quebec is the only city ready to have the Yotes.
Just admit you are biased to QC having a team, geesus.

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01-15-2013, 08:33 PM
  #1023
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I believe all of Toronto, Quebec City, and Seattle should get team, instead of lame duck market like Phoenix, Florida, Dallas, Tampa Bay...
aj8000 put a pefectly versed argument in front of you. The multi-paragraphed prose was intelligent, articulate and balanced.... and your response equates to "neener neener neener"

You are free to take another stab at it if you wish.

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01-15-2013, 08:33 PM
  #1024
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Unfortunetly none of them have temporary venues, and no new building is being built in these cities. So Quebec is the only city ready to have the Yotes.
Many people would say that using a temporary venue is not being ready. Maybe Quebec should have started building their arena five years earlier to show their dedication to hockey and it would be done now and likely have a team.

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01-15-2013, 08:33 PM
  #1025
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Just admit you are biased to QC having a team, geesus.
Wow you figured it out... humm i guess you are biased toward Phoenix. Which is normal, dont you think?

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