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Phoenix LXVII; Route66 - Aftermath

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Old
12-27-2012, 08:41 PM
  #201
Killion
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Originally Posted by Mightygoose View Post
More that makes you go hmmmmm.....
And a whole lot of this....

Absolutely Barking Mad Sir....
I mean, who in their right mind?.....

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12-27-2012, 09:09 PM
  #202
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Someone should start a poll on who thinks he has the money or will get it, and who think he wont.

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12-27-2012, 09:12 PM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightygoose View Post
More from mr. shoalts from the globe & mail

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle6758950/

From the article

"Greg Jamison says he hopes to close the purchase of the Phoenix Coyotes in January, and while the usual doubters point out this is simply the latest in a long line of such predictions, they are giving him full marks for creativity in his hunt for investors.

This is due to Jamisonís novel but failed attempt to find investors through the Immigrant Investor Program of the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. Two sources familiar with his investment plans said Jamison, the former president of the NHLís San Jose Sharks, tried to raise at least some of the $170-million (all currency U.S.) purchase price by using what is also known as the EB-5 program."

Isn't the money supposed to be sitting in escrow ans we're all set to go?

More that makes you go hmmmmm.....
I don't think that is legal since the team existed before 1990 albeit not in Phoenix.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/usc...00b92ca60aRCRD

"All EB-5 investors must invest in a new commercial enterprise, which is a commercial enterprise:

Established after Nov. 29, 1990, or
Established on or before Nov. 29, 1990, that is:
1. Purchased and the existing business is restructured or reorganized in such a way that a new commercial enterprise results, or
2. Expanded through the investment so that a 40-percent increase in the net worth or number of employees occurs"

1. Can't happen since it's still a hockey team.
2. Team value goes from $170 million to $238 million or he hires 40% more vendors.

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12-27-2012, 09:31 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by wildthing202 View Post
I don't think that is legal since the team existed before 1990 albeit not in Phoenix.


Established after Nov. 29, 1990, or
Established on or before Nov. 29, 1990, that is:
1. Purchased and the existing business is restructured or reorganized in such a way that a new commercial enterprise results, or
2. Expanded through the investment so that a 40-percent increase in the net worth or number of employees occurs"

1. Can't happen since it's still a hockey team.
2. Team value goes from $170 million to $238 million or he hires 40% more vendors.
Eh you could argue its after 11/29/90 because it wasn't in the US. The number of employees is doable if the team really has had no marketing or sales staff. I am sure whoever is the congressman for this area will put a call into INS and make it happen

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12-27-2012, 09:43 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Someone should start a poll on who thinks he has the money or will get it, and who think he wont.
If the sale doesn't go through you have to name your next dog/cat/whatever pet "relo". Deal?

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Old
12-27-2012, 09:49 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightygoose View Post
More from mr. shoalts from the globe & mail

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle6758950/

From the article

"Greg Jamison says he hopes to close the purchase of the Phoenix Coyotes in January, and while the usual doubters point out this is simply the latest in a long line of such predictions, they are giving him full marks for creativity in his hunt for investors.

This is due to Jamisonís novel but failed attempt to find investors through the Immigrant Investor Program of the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. Two sources familiar with his investment plans said Jamison, the former president of the NHLís San Jose Sharks, tried to raise at least some of the $170-million (all currency U.S.) purchase price by using what is also known as the EB-5 program."

Isn't the money supposed to be sitting in escrow ans we're all set to go?

More that makes you go hmmmmm.....

Yeah those "two sources close to" Shoalts cites make it sound real solid.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
And a whole lot of this....

Absolutely Barking Mad Sir....
I mean, who in their right mind?.....

Killy..... Killy..... Killy...... I thought you knew better??


In other news.....

--- Mike Sunnucks reports (all be it a WEEK LATE) that Glendale signed the AMF.

--- Back to Sanity (Ken Jones and his Tea Party pals) fail to submit their petitions to the Glendale city clerk by the 12/27 deadline. Meaning the AMF is now executable upon getting all the required signatures.

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Old
12-27-2012, 09:52 PM
  #207
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city of glendale just signed arena management deal with the coyotes......

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=412351

Quote:
he sale of the Phoenix Coyotes is a step closer to being finalized.

The city of Glendale signed its arena management deal and lease with prospective team buyer Greg Jamison this week. The deal is for $300 million over 20 years, which pays Jamison to run the city-owned Jobing.com Arena.

City spokeswoman Julie Watters said Jamison must now finish his deal with the National Hockey League for the Glendale deal to be consummated. He has until the end of January to buy the Coyotes for the league's selling price of $170-million and ink the arena deal.

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Old
12-27-2012, 09:59 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
Killy..... Killy..... Killy...... I thought you knew better??
perhaps I should have been more clear. The entire premise of the story, Shoalts, is beyond ludicrous. Sure its possible Jamison had some Russian, Serbian, Balkan or whatever who was interested in investing & maybe wanted to relo himself to the USofA so that was mebbe looked at & into. But to write an entire piece on it, like he was some sort of Immigrant Invester Scamster trolling East Asia, the Middle East, North Africa and Lord only knows? I mean, you cant make this stuff up.... well, apparently you can... if your names Dave Shoalts. Talk about your Drive-Bye Artists. Yikes!.

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12-27-2012, 10:01 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by sawchuk1971 View Post
city of glendale just signed arena management deal with the coyotes......

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=412351
News is soooooooo 2 weeks ago...

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12-27-2012, 10:02 PM
  #210
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That signing is conditionnal to Jamieson buying the team. Which is still not done and probably wont be... Greg, SHOW US THE MONEY!!!

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12-27-2012, 10:22 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by wildthing202 View Post
I don't think that is legal since the team existed before 1990 albeit not in Phoenix.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/usc...00b92ca60aRCRD

"All EB-5 investors must invest in a new commercial enterprise, which is a commercial enterprise:

Established after Nov. 29, 1990, or
Established on or before Nov. 29, 1990, that is:
1. Purchased and the existing business is restructured or reorganized in such a way that a new commercial enterprise results, or
2. Expanded through the investment so that a 40-percent increase in the net worth or number of employees occurs"

1. Can't happen since it's still a hockey team.
2. Team value goes from $170 million to $238 million or he hires 40% more vendors.
The two entities that are party to the agreement are Arizona Hockey Partners LLC and Arizona Arena Hockey Partners LLC, both established in Delaware last August. The previous entity "died" in bankruptcy.

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12-28-2012, 06:54 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
Yeah those "two sources close to" Shoalts cites make it sound real solid.
Perhaps you should read the article before trying to besmirch it. Seems none other than Greg "The Shadow" Jamison admits to looking into the program:

Quote:
Jamison said Thursday he took a look at the program, which essentially trades green cards for cash, but said it will not be part of his financing package in the purchase of the team from the NHL. He declined again to reveal any of his investors or details of his financing plan, but said he hopes to close the sale in January.

“I’ve been at this 18 months, I’ve looked at everything,” Jamison said. “I’m aware of the [EB-5] program and what it can do. We did discuss it, but we’re not using it as part of our program, no.”
Is that a good enough source for you? Right from the horse's mouth.

The interesting part of that quote, aside from confirming that Jamison is more or less alive and well and in fact a real person, is that he admits he's "looked at everything" in terms of dredging up potential investors. 18 months of globetrotting and the sale still hasn't closed. And of course when asked about using the cash-for-green-cards program, he still refuses to out any of his alleged investors.

I wouldn't feel too good about Jamison buying the team right now.

Bonus: The Ice Edge clowns are looking at getting a green card through their investment in the Coyotes! Awesome! You can have 'em, United States.

Quote:
A third source said while Jamison never discussed using the program with his only known investors, the Ice Edge group of Canadian and U.S. businessmen, at least one member of the group checked out the EB-5 program on his own to see if it would help land a green card.
(Article quotes from Shoalts' G&M article, here: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle6758950/ )

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12-28-2012, 07:00 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Thomas L View Post
The two entities that are party to the agreement are Arizona Hockey Partners LLC and Arizona Arena Hockey Partners LLC, both established in Delaware last August. The previous entity "died" in bankruptcy.
I'm sure you're correct, however there might be a few more issues:

Quote:
Commercial enterprise means any for-profit activity formed for the ongoing conduct of lawful business
The business has to be a "for-profit" activity. I don't think anyone expects the Coyotes to turn a profit any time soon. Also, they have to conduct lawful business. The acceptance of gigantic subsidies from a municipal government in Arizona isn't exactly lawful.

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12-28-2012, 07:39 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by CGG View Post
I'm sure you're correct, however there might be a few more issues:

The business has to be a "for-profit" activity. I don't think anyone expects the Coyotes to turn a profit any time soon. Also, they have to conduct lawful business. The acceptance of gigantic subsidies from a municipal government in Arizona isn't exactly lawful.
Point #1.. while it has been shown in the past and this season, that the only time the Coyotes come close to showing a profit is when the NHL doesn't actually play, I will give Jamison the benefit of the doubt and call owning the Coyotes a "for-profit" activity. The fact that Jamison may only break even once every lockout, well... that's his problem.

Point #2.. If the GWI backs away and does not challenge the subsidy to Jamison, then it by default becomes lawful IMO. Incredibly stupid, but lawful...

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12-28-2012, 07:50 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
perhaps I should have been more clear. The entire premise of the story, Shoalts, is beyond ludicrous. Sure its possible Jamison had some Russian, Serbian, Balkan or whatever who was interested in investing & maybe wanted to relo himself to the USofA so that was mebbe looked at & into. But to write an entire piece on it, like he was some sort of Immigrant Invester Scamster trolling East Asia, the Middle East, North Africa and Lord only knows? I mean, you cant make this stuff up.... well, apparently you can... if your names Dave Shoalts. Talk about your Drive-Bye Artists. Yikes!.
This is the Phoenix Coyotes we are talking about here... anything is possible.

I don't see at all why this isn't feasible. Jamison ( who we all know is just the front man ) has been searching under every rock trying to find investors. Why not look everywhere?

I'm sure in the past 18 months Jamison more than likely has received some anonymous email from some Nigerian prince looking to invest millions into something ( as everyone on the Internet has received this email at some time ) and I'm sure Jamison actually checked this out, being all desperate...

The point is... 18 months? It would be safe to say Jamison has talked to someone on every continent, except Antarctica, looking for speculators. The fact that Jamison himself admits to even looking at the EB-5 program shows that every rock will be turned over.

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12-28-2012, 08:19 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
This is the Phoenix Coyotes we are talking about here... anything is possible.

I don't see at all why this isn't feasible. Jamison ( who we all know is just the front man ) has been searching under every rock trying to find investors. Why not look everywhere?

I'm sure in the past 18 months Jamison more than likely has received some anonymous email from some Nigerian prince looking to invest millions into something ( as everyone on the Internet has received this email at some time ) and I'm sure Jamison actually checked this out, being all desperate...

The point is... 18 months? It would be safe to say Jamison has talked to someone on every continent, except Antarctica, looking for speculators. The fact that Jamison himself admits to even looking at the EB-5 program shows that every rock will be turned over.
That's funny as a few months ago I posted that GJ should consider contacting the penguin farmers in Antarctica as they've got ice-loads of $$$$$. But I digress......

If GJ is indeed STILL seeking investors then his grasp on buying the team is tenuous at best. One would imagine that in addition to GJ, the league would need to vet any potential investors unless they're looking for a Del Baggio or John Spano redux.

So what's the deal if he can't close the purchase by 01.31.13?

1) Does the signed lease become null and void?

2) Does the lease remain valid subject to possible revisions or all out retraction by the new COG?

My tin foil hat tells me GJ will run out of time and the new council will seal the teams fate by voiding the lease........ allowing GJ to ride into the sunset wearing the white hat.

I concur with a previous post...... the Coyote fans deserve better and IF they relocate, it should be to a market that will guarantee financial success for the team.

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12-28-2012, 08:41 AM
  #217
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One thing that I find really odd is, almost every Coyotes fan on this board claim that the team failed because of poor ownership. That a better owner would magically turn this mess around and make the team profitable.

These same fans are "re-joycing" (pun intended) that Greg Jamieson is the new owner to be. Yet this guy hasn't revealed who his mysterious investors are. He apparently has the IEH line up as investors, he has been contacting everyone and his mother in order to find money to buy this wreck of a franchise for the las 18 months!!!

Don't you realize by now that this guy is not the solid owner you guys have been dreaming about for close to two decades?? He relies on freaking luck (said it himself) to turn this franchise around. I mean, come on, how much worst can it get?

You can't have a serious owner, because this franchise will not work. The only prospects are clowns. Serious business men with actual money (and business plans) wouldn't touch this deal with a ten foot pole. This team might be saved once again(I doubt it), but for how long and at what price?

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12-28-2012, 11:28 AM
  #218
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The fact that GJ even contemplated dipping his toes into the EB-5 pool is extremely telling... and sinks to another realm of desperation. The EB-5 program itself is risky, if not even more risky than hopping into the JIG itself. I've had 5 customers in the last 6 years go back to their respective countries due to their failure to make their ventures (and their investments) work, let alone the job creation aspect.

EB-5, for those that may not know, is the new and trendy way for generating quick and easy investment capital for those entities seeking a non-traditional investment stream, or streams. Personally, and based on my relationships with the aforemention clients I had, my belief is it borders predatory.

Given the landscape surrounding the Coyotes, Glendale, the subsidy (whether it would materialize or not), and how many of these "prospective" investors would have had to pile on to make it even meaningful to pursue such a thing, it's no wonder why it didn't materialize.

Seems to me, based on the article, that GJ looked into it as a means of investment post acquisition... rather he would pursue and secure the investment monies for the purchase thru more traditional means and have a few EB-5'ers bring up the rear. Perhaps to cushion operating costs, additional capital draw, etc.

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12-28-2012, 11:40 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by GF View Post
One thing that I find really odd is, almost every Coyotes fan on this board claim that the team failed because of poor ownership. That a better owner would magically turn this mess around and make the team profitable.

These same fans are "re-joycing" (pun intended) that Greg Jamieson is the new owner to be. Yet this guy hasn't revealed who his mysterious investors are. He apparently has the IEH line up as investors, he has been contacting everyone and his mother in order to find money to buy this wreck of a franchise for the las 18 months!!!

Don't you realize by now that this guy is not the solid owner you guys have been dreaming about for close to two decades?? He relies on freaking luck (said it himself) to turn this franchise around. I mean, come on, how much worst can it get?

You can't have a serious owner, because this franchise will not work. The only prospects are clowns. Serious business men with actual money (and business plans) wouldn't touch this deal with a ten foot pole. This team might be saved once again(I doubt it), but for how long and at what price?
i dont think anyone here, even the faithful, would bet the farm on jamison actually closing the deal but there are many people here, myself included, who do think there is a remote possibility, if all the stars aligned that hockey could actually work in the phoenix market. and we are very interested in learning more about what jamison actually has up his sleeve. but sadly, we have all been disappointed so far.

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12-28-2012, 12:35 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
i dont think anyone here, even the faithful, would bet the farm on jamison actually closing the deal but there are many people here, myself included, who do think there is a remote possibility, if all the stars aligned that hockey could actually work in the phoenix market. and we are very interested in learning more about what jamison actually has up his sleeve. but sadly, we have all been disappointed so far.
This team may have had a slight chance for success had they remained downtown. Even then, the road, like so many other NHL franchises, would have been unpredictable and likely littered with losses! The lack of a good media contract is main difference between profits and losses. Instead the NHL is a gate driven league that has allowed itself to pay its performers too much.

Say TL, I am still waiting for your pro forma numbers! I am presuming you also have a source, not "projections" for your information. I, on the other hand, am just using simple calculations with the public information that is available. Come on give it a shot!

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12-28-2012, 12:44 PM
  #221
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That Nigerian Prince is going to come through afterall. Did Jamieson give him banking info?

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12-28-2012, 12:54 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
i dont think anyone here, even the faithful, would bet the farm on jamison actually closing the deal but there are many people here, myself included, who do think there is a remote possibility, if all the stars aligned that hockey could actually work in the phoenix market. and we are very interested in learning more about what jamison actually has up his sleeve. but sadly, we have all been disappointed so far.
One thing that could have made the Coyotes ( or a lot of the teams ) viable would have been if the players in the league were paid appropriately according to their status in the U.S. sports landscape.

Hockey is #1 in Canada, that's a given, but most of the teams are in the U.S. and most people see hockey as the #4 sport in that country.

But, there are problems..

- the players want to get paid as if they are tier #1 athletes, yet they are not equal in status or recognition to the other sports.

- some of the owners actually agreed to pay the players like they are tier #1 athletes.

- The TV ratings and revenue for hockey on TV are dismal compared to the other sports.

Just to compare average salaries from 2011 because that's all the individual player cares about.

1- NBA - $5.15M
2- MLB - $3.31M
3- NHL - $2.40M
4- NFL - $1.90M

If the NHL players were on average being paid the same as NFL players, that would save $10M per team. Might help some teams like the Coyotes be better off.

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12-28-2012, 01:30 PM
  #223
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If I were Jamieson, I'm not sure I'd be putting any money at all on the line until I knew for sure the PA wasn't decertifying - and that's not something Bettman can guarantee.

 
Old
12-28-2012, 01:45 PM
  #224
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Mon dieu, what an enormous flimsy house of cards all this has become...all that needs to be done is Goldwater to announce a press meeting and then we can start seeing everything crashing around everyone's ears under operatic high cadenzas of an obese lady in horns

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12-28-2012, 02:23 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Just to compare average salaries from 2011 because that's all the individual player cares about.

1- NBA - $5.15M
2- MLB - $3.31M
3- NHL - $2.40M
4- NFL - $1.90M

If the NHL players were on average being paid the same as NFL players, that would save $10M per team. Might help some teams like the Coyotes be better off.
But the NFL has 53 man rosters and 16 games so its a bit skewed. The average is brought down by your long snappers and special teams guys. When you put it in that context it doesn't look like NHL players are overpaid when you consider the wear and tear on their bodies compared to other sports.

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