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2012 CBA/Lockout talk Part VII..Will a deal get done..

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Old
12-29-2012, 07:41 AM
  #426
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Originally Posted by ranold26 View Post
You know, when you can lose 800m in salary to gain 300m in make whole improvement... you just gotta do that deal everyday.
Haha. Players aren't the smartest bunch...

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12-29-2012, 07:44 AM
  #427
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No face to face meetings planed for today, however, the NHL negotiating group and the NHLPA executive board and negotiating committee will have a conference call late this morning to discuss the proposal.

Not really a bad sign, at least they are going to discuss it with both groups 100% involved - just not face to face. No one has a press conference set yet, but I'm sure we will hear shortly after where the Union sits with this latest proposal.

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12-29-2012, 08:03 AM
  #428
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seems to be a large group of NHL`ers packing it up overseas and coming back to NA. Would I be incorrect in saying that they could be anticipating a start up to occur sooner rather than later?

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12-29-2012, 08:06 AM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Jean_Jacket41 View Post
Haha. Players aren't the smartest bunch...
This puzzles me. Of course they were going to lose money. Any work stoppage in history of labor, whether strike or lockout, is going to result in short-term loss. The question is, will there be a long-term gain?

And even if you believe Fehr is the devil incarnate, one thing he is not, is stupid.

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A little more than three weeks ago, deputy commissioner Bill Daly said five-year contract terms were, “a hill we would die on.” So what does the NHL do in its latest proposal? It increases term limits to six years, seven if it involves resigning your own player. Compliance buyouts, an easy way out for rich teams to shed themselves of a bad contract, were going to be forbidden. Well, now each team gets one, meaning Scott Gomez can play out his career as the highest paid player in the history of the Alaska Aces.

A total of $300 million in “make whole” money, no contract rollbacks and a year to get in compliance with a $60 million salary cap were all supposedly non-starters. The NHL wanted its 50-50 split and it wanted it immediately. It talked tough for a couple of months and it caved…again.
http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...daily_20121229

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12-29-2012, 08:11 AM
  #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
This puzzles me. Of course they were going to lose money. Any work stoppage in history of labor, whether strike or lockout, is going to result in short-term loss. The question is, will there be a long-term gain?

And even if you believe Fehr is the devil incarnate, one thing he is not, is stupid.



http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...daily_20121229
That's just negotiating and coming to the realization that if a deal is going to get done, that they would have to move on it.

To me, the sticking point is going to be the $50 million coming out of make whole to go towards the players pension. Let's see if the players argument about fighting for past players and the players of the future holds true to form.

The argument can be made both ways if you look at both sides with an open mind.

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12-29-2012, 08:27 AM
  #431
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NHL may not be a legit "top 4" sport, but quite a few of their players proved to be grade A ***holes during this whole thing just like many of their counterparts... I used to think as a whole NHL players were different...No more...must be the new breed of athlete.

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12-29-2012, 08:29 AM
  #432
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Originally Posted by OrrOverGretzky View Post
That's just negotiating and coming to the realization that if a deal is going to get done, that they would have to move on it.

To me, the sticking point is going to be the $50 million coming out of make whole to go towards the players pension. Let's see if the players argument about fighting for past players and the players of the future holds true to form.

The argument can be made both ways if you look at both sides with an open mind.
I have a hard time thinking the Sidney Crosby's of the world care all that much about the Jim Korn's, Brent Hughes and Michael Thelven's of the world.

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12-29-2012, 08:38 AM
  #433
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I have a hard time thinking the Sidney Crosby's of the world care all that much about the Jim Korn's, Brent Hughes and Michael Thelven's of the world.
Oh please, I`m sure Sid`s lost a ton of sleep over whether or not those players are suffering any economic hardship

Course, he could be losing sleep with all those lumps in the bed caused by decks of bills stuffed between the matress and boxspring

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12-29-2012, 08:43 AM
  #434
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
I have a hard time thinking the Sidney Crosby's of the world care all that much about the Jim Korn's, Brent Hughes and Michael Thelven's of the world.
You and me are going to have a long chat about that when this is all over. Some surprises may come your way.

Any who, players will hold a league wide conference call once the NHL and NHLPA negotiating committee are done with theirs. That's when players will get the brunt of info from the offer and Fehr's recommendation on how to proceed.

Will it be "I recommend you accept the offer" or "I believe we should hold out for more" ?

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12-29-2012, 08:43 AM
  #435
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
NHL may not be a legit "top 4" sport, but quite a few of their players proved to be grade A ***holes during this whole thing just like many of their counterparts... I used to think as a whole NHL players were different...No more...must be the new breed of athlete.
I'm curious - what qualifies as "quite a few"? A dozen? A hundred?

NHL players from what I know are about the same as any other group of humans - mostly decent, a handful of genuine great people, and some nasty idiots.

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12-29-2012, 09:08 AM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
I'm curious - what qualifies as "quite a few"? A dozen? A hundred?

NHL players from what I know are about the same as any other group of humans - mostly decent, a handful of genuine great people, and some nasty idiots.
Sadly Artemis it doesn't matter how many, all it takes is one idiot.

If it's negative it makes the press. I don't know why we as humans need to read on all the negative crap that goes around.

Not to many people know that in London, Ontario Perry and Prust took time on Christmas Day to go and visit children at the Sick Kids Hospital there.

I was told Perry was visiting a little girl when all of a sudden she looked at him and asked.."who are you". They all had a good laugh.

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12-29-2012, 09:19 AM
  #437
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put me down as the NHL players are soooooooooooooooooo far the best of the pro sports athletes, There are a few bad apples in every bunch but no way do I lump these guys all together.

Pro hockey players LAP the field- not even close. And I think a large slice of the pie goes to the parents who raise these kids. Hockey parents are more cases than not the most involved and it aint even close and I played or was involved with my parents in all the sports but basketball.

Gotta STRONGLY disagree about these guys even now.

also, heard this latest offer is close but not there; Fehr will try and squeeze more out of this and I'm not sure what it is- but my guess is the reduction in the cap next year.

These guys need to solve this before New Years and not let it drag till next Thursday and Friday.

They are really bleeping off many folks and 80% like me will be back (but I'll protest by not buying one freaking thing for myself at the Garden in food this year- and I drink atleast one beer every game sometimes multiple, and eat there. Screw them for this year),,,,

I expect another bump and that is to bad because they should take a beating on the growth for years after this ******** for the past month atleast.

This ought to be interesting today and tomorrow what comes out, but Fehr is going to keep pushing because the hour glass has sand in his mind, Sadly, if the agreement was reached by Monday they could psychologically hit the New Year with a new resolution to be great to the people that make the game and grow the game.

My guess is they start the New Year hopeful but still trying to get every last dollar even at the expense of fans and future growth.

penny wise pound foolish

optimistic they play and have a deal within 2 weeks but not liking what I think is going to happen- more, more, more

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12-29-2012, 09:24 AM
  #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
I'm curious - what qualifies as "quite a few"? A dozen? A hundred?

NHL players from what I know are about the same as any other group of humans - mostly decent, a handful of genuine great people, and some nasty idiots.
I'll go on to say based on my observation of Joe Fan and Joe Worker, they were raised better ad have better manners. Even getting coffee in the drive thru today the dick infront of me thru his trash (not coffee related) out the window.

I been around these guys all my life (mainly because of my parents) and they overall are grounded and have solid bases and values.

Lou, I love u man, take it back

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12-29-2012, 09:34 AM
  #439
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put me down as the NHL players are soooooooooooooooooo far the best of the pro sports athletes, There are a few bad apples in every bunch but no way do I lump these guys all together.

Pro hockey players LAP the field- not even close. And I think a large slice of the pie goes to the parents who raise these kids. Hockey parents are more cases than not the most involved and it aint even close and I played or was involved with my parents in all the sports but basketball.

Gotta STRONGLY disagree about these guys even now.

also, heard this latest offer is close but not there; Fehr will try and squeeze more out of this and I'm not sure what it is- but my guess is the reduction in the cap next year.

These guys need to solve this before New Years and not let it drag till next Thursday and Friday.

They are really bleeping off many folks and 80% like me will be back (but I'll protest by not buying one freaking thing for myself at the Garden in food this year- and I drink atleast one beer every game sometimes multiple, and eat there. Screw them for this year),,,,

I expect another bump and that is to bad because they should take a beating on the growth for years after this ******** for the past month atleast.

This ought to be interesting today and tomorrow what comes out, but Fehr is going to keep pushing because the hour glass has sand in his mind, Sadly, if the agreement was reached by Monday they could psychologically hit the New Year with a new resolution to be great to the people that make the game and grow the game.

My guess is they start the New Year hopeful but still trying to get every last dollar even at the expense of fans and future growth.

penny wise pound foolish

optimistic they play and have a deal within 2 weeks but not liking what I think is going to happen- more, more, more

Dan I have to say that I would not have any trouble with hearing that if Fehr asks for more and Bettman hangs up on him and goes out and cancels the season seconds later.

I understand that it's his job to get the best deal possible, but this very well could be the best deal. But we've heard that line before also.

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12-29-2012, 09:47 AM
  #440
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Even IF there is a season, it's tainted already in my eyes. Not a STH but I typically attend 6 to 12 games a season. I will not be going to one this year. I normally go to one playoff game per round,, won't be doing that either. And it's not that I feel my absence will make a difference,, I'm just disgusted with what has transpired in the past few months. Cancel the season already, I've adjusted to 'living sans hockey'. Good riddance.

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12-29-2012, 10:15 AM
  #441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
I'm curious - what qualifies as "quite a few"? A dozen? A hundred?

NHL players from what I know are about the same as any other group of humans - mostly decent, a handful of genuine great people, and some nasty idiots.
I don't know, maybe 1%? Only takes a few bad apples to taint the cart. NHL players as a whole used to take the high road... Don't remember any db's like this last time. Must be the new generation. I used to hold NHL players as a whole above all other athletes... No more... My bad I guess. I am very proud of our boys however...and in the end, maybe that's the only thing that matters.

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12-29-2012, 10:33 AM
  #442
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Even IF there is a season, it's tainted already in my eyes. Not a STH but I typically attend 6 to 12 games a season. I will not be going to one this year. I normally go to one playoff game per round,, won't be doing that either. And it's not that I feel my absence will make a difference,, I'm just disgusted with what has transpired in the past few months. Cancel the season already, I've adjusted to 'living sans hockey'. Good riddance.
I have a hard time not following it but I have reduced my interest. Whether they come back this season or not I definately am not going to any games. Hockey fans are very loyal and hardcore and they take us for granted and it pisses me off.

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12-29-2012, 11:32 AM
  #443
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Even IF there is a season, it's tainted already in my eyes. Not a STH but I typically attend 6 to 12 games a season. I will not be going to one this year. I normally go to one playoff game per round,, won't be doing that either. And it's not that I feel my absence will make a difference,, I'm just disgusted with what has transpired in the past few months. Cancel the season already, I've adjusted to 'living sans hockey'. Good riddance.
I don't blame you and I figure they lose maybe 10-20% of fans- however, they'll get a lot back if the season is good and the playoffs great.

Hockey may have turfed a season and they are morons for getting to this point, but they are not alone in this- NFL gave us replacement players and counted the games, MLB did the unthinkable and worse than hockey imo- they played 2/3rds the season and then pulled the plug with no World Series. Basketball has had I believe two shortened seasons.

The Red Sox in 1971 I think lost the pennent on the last day by a 1/2 game because of a strike or lockout and the idiot baseball Commissioner and owners just picked up the schedule and the Tigers played one more game than the Red Sox

There have been amazingly stupid things done and hockey is right there but the NFL replacement games and MLB's two huge, huge gaffes are in the conversation.

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12-29-2012, 11:47 AM
  #444
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Average NHLer > average prof athlete

My view is that kids who grow up in households where their parents are around and involved tend to grow into "better" people. Hard to ignore socioeconomic factors as well.

Most parents of hockey players are around and very involved and tend to have a certain level of disposable income as well. Obviously hockey requires a serious time and fiscal commitment from the parents. Ergo, hockey players tend, on the average, to be "better" people.

You could also throw in character building experiences found in physical sports: sacrificing self for the good of the team (4th liners, penalty killers, o-linemen etc), taking physical punishment and getting right back up, playing hurt, standing up for teammates etc.

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12-29-2012, 12:02 PM
  #445
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
I don't know, maybe 1%? Only takes a few bad apples to taint the cart. NHL players as a whole used to take the high road... Don't remember any db's like this last time. Must be the new generation. I used to hold NHL players as a whole above all other athletes... No more... My bad I guess. I am very proud of our boys however...and in the end, maybe that's the only thing that matters.
I can tell you with total certainty that there have been a few stupid dirtbags in EVERY generation of professional hockey.

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12-29-2012, 02:42 PM
  #446
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NHL memo to off-ice officials a harbinger of lockout’s end?

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On Friday, Dan O'Neill, the NHL’s Vice President for Arena & Event Operations, sent a memo addressed to all "Arena Technical Coordinators, Video Goal Judges and Video Goal Technicians."

It contained – in stupefying details, to the layman – information about technical changes implemented for "the upcoming season," specifically mentioning that the NHL and NHLPA are continuing to work toward a resolution that, if reached, will necessitate that arena personnel are "ready to go."

An off-ice official that requested anonymity told Puck Daddy on Saturday that O’Neill’s email was “the first time all year” the officials have received this type of correspondence from the League.

Another factor for optimism: déjà vu. During the last shortened season, off-ice officials received a similar notice and the NHL was “playing games in less than two weeks," according to the source.

This type of chatter has picked up lately. Teams have been sending messages to their managers and staffers “all hands on deck” messages for the last few weeks: Be prepared to head back at a moment’s notice. In some cases, they’ve been false starts, as the NHL and NHLPA talks have teased a resolution. But that’s what’s been communicated.

So this sounds like a good sign the NHL is gearing up to (finally) start the season. But there’s really only one person that can validate those preparations. Oh, what’s-his-name … Don something. Old guy. Likes baseball. It’ll come to us …

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12-29-2012, 04:07 PM
  #447
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is this the OT thread now?

anyways still expect for Dougie Hamilton to make it all the way thru the WJC without a deal in place.

I would like to be the invisible man in the room when Jeremy Jacobs finds out shortly not good enough is the message from Don Fehr

The owners could probably tell Fehr he can have the 57 % again and this guy would not sign off- yet. Whatever the last day is if there is one is when he agrees. Just feels that way.

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12-29-2012, 04:43 PM
  #448
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If a deal gets done, does anyone else think this was all a ploy and that they planned on a 48 game schedule all along?

I keep reading how people have been saying this from the beginning and for once I think I'm believing it.

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12-29-2012, 04:47 PM
  #449
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If a deal gets done, does anyone else think this was all a ploy and that they planned on a 48 game schedule all along?

I keep reading how people have been saying this from the beginning and for once I think I'm believing it.
I wouldn't call it a "ploy" per se but that a lot of people believed it would go up to the absolute cliff-hanging last second, and that's what a 48-game season is.

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12-29-2012, 04:51 PM
  #450
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If a deal gets done, does anyone else think this was all a ploy and that they planned on a 48 game schedule all along?

I keep reading how people have been saying this from the beginning and for once I think I'm believing it.
In the sense that the owners would be just fine losing games and saving on salaries and expenses, 16 of them will still get the playoff revenue too...and with a shortened season you know certain teams are wide eyed at a hot streak slipping them in

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