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2012 CBA/Lockout talk Part VII..Will a deal get done..

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Old
01-01-2013, 05:40 PM
  #601
EverettMike
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Also Patty, the players hired Fehr because they didn't trust Bettman. Did that opening offer do anything to assuage those fears? Or did it simply exacerbate them?

And I didn't mind the initial offer at the time because I thought it was like a salesman saying he could only sell the car at sticker. But I was not nearly as informed about how the old lockout ended as I am now. I did not truly understand how the league went around Goodenow. Clearly the initial offer was a problem if your goal was to avoid a lockout. I do not believe the owners cared about missing games though and it was really just an opening chess move where they were already thinking about the endgame.

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01-01-2013, 05:40 PM
  #602
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Oh, and EverettMike DOES NOT CONDONE DOG FIGHTING IN ANYWAY.

It is simply okay as a metaphor.

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01-01-2013, 06:07 PM
  #603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Oh, and EverettMike DOES NOT CONDONE DOG FIGHTING IN ANYWAY.

It is simply okay as a metaphor.
I was waiting for someone to call you out on that too, damn.

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01-01-2013, 06:10 PM
  #604
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Players were asked to negotiate 15 months ago.

Players were asked to ok realignment.

Players were asked to not trigger the escalator clause in the cap before this summer.

And folks expected the players to get a nice and fair initial offer?. Ok.

Greed vs greed. Both sides suck.

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01-01-2013, 06:11 PM
  #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Also Patty, the players hired Fehr because they didn't trust Bettman. Did that opening offer do anything to assuage those fears? Or did it simply exacerbate them?

And I didn't mind the initial offer at the time because I thought it was like a salesman saying he could only sell the car at sticker. But I was not nearly as informed about how the old lockout ended as I am now. I did not truly understand how the league went around Goodenow. Clearly the initial offer was a problem if your goal was to avoid a lockout. I do not believe the owners cared about missing games though and it was really just an opening chess move where they were already thinking about the endgame.
Are you actually living in my brain? I ask because as soon as I have a thought, you seem to post it (JMiller, too).

If the owners cared about saving a full season this could have been avoided. They planned all along on forcing the players' hands by cancelling games.

If the owners wanted to negotiate fairly, they would have been transparent about the financial realities from the get-go. They did
not, because their goal all along was to cancel games and try to break the union.

Using threats (physical, emotional, financial) and intimidation to get what you want could easily be construed as "bully" tactics by most. The owners had absolutely no concerns about behaving this way.

I maintain the owners did not bargain in good faith and have been dishonest this entire process. Therefore, the players had little choice - roll over and take it, or fight back. They chose option B, and now they're being savaged on these boards and elsewhere as being greedy.

I fail to see how the owners strategy somehow equals good business practice, even if it makes them a pile of cash.

From what I gather, many on this forum see things like this: wealthy owners = good businessmen/pillars of the community/bastions of economic prowess, but wealthy players = greedy SOBs who don't appreciate how good they have it.

Maybe others can put a price tag on integrity and decency ($2.5 million seems to be the number people keep posting), but I don't.

Maybe others think that making a ton of money playing a child's game means you should keep your trap shut when you are being treated unfairly, but I don't.

It's ok. I'm not personally offended by differing opinions. I am, however, glad most of you are not representing my interests as an employee.

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01-01-2013, 06:14 PM
  #606
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How can you say the owners intentionally wanted to cancel games when they wanted to start talking 15 months ago?.

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01-01-2013, 06:24 PM
  #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
How can you say the owners intentionally wanted to cancel games when they wanted to start talking 15 months ago?.
Lou, I put plenty of blame on both sides, but I don't think there is any doubt that the owners wanted to cancel games. The NBA owners just came off their most successful season, they had an abbreviated training camp (which is normally a cash drain), an accelerated schedule and increased attention on the regular season because the playoff implications of each game were magnified. Also, those owners who own buildings also got to book a few additional dates.

All along I asserted that the NHL owners wanted to repeat this drill. Although I thought this would be resolved around Thanksgiving. I don't think the owners counted on Fehr being equally stubborn and having this drag out for as long as it has.

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01-01-2013, 06:25 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
How can you say the owners intentionally wanted to cancel games when they wanted to start talking 15 months ago?.
What was their best offer on the table when the first game was canceled? Was it still the 43/57 initial proposal?

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01-01-2013, 06:39 PM
  #609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludwig Fell Down View Post
Lou, I put plenty of blame on both sides, but I don't think there is any doubt that the owners wanted to cancel games. The NBA owners just came off their most successful season, they had an abbreviated training camp (which is normally a cash drain), an accelerated schedule and increased attention on the regular season because the playoff implications of each game were magnified. Also, those owners who own buildings also got to book a few additional dates.

All along I asserted that the NHL owners wanted to repeat this drill. Although I thought this would be resolved around Thanksgiving. I don't think the owners counted on Fehr being equally stubborn and having this drag out for as long as it has.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
What was their best offer on the table when the first game was canceled? Was it still the 43/57 initial proposal?
Should have been more clear. Once the players completed their trifecta of tomfoolery there is no doubt the owners would press the screws. Part of their adjusted plan no doubt.

Owners misjudged as I believe they thought the players would cave and they would only miss two paychecks maximum. Once they saw they wouldn't they sat back and said screw it. Bettman only came back to the table due to pressure from some owners. He holds grudges and couldn't give a flying **** if they settle or not.

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01-01-2013, 06:42 PM
  #610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
Owners misjudged as I believe they thought the players would cave and they would only miss two paychecks maximum. Once they saw they wouldn't they sat back and said screw it. Bettman only came back to the table due to pressure from some owners. He holds grudges and couldn't give a flying **** if they settle or not.
We are in total agreement!

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01-01-2013, 06:42 PM
  #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
Should have been more clear. Once the players completed their trifecta of tomfoolery there is no doubt the owners would press the screws. Part of their adjusted plan no doubt.

Owners misjudged as I believe they thought the players would cave and they would only miss two paychecks maximum. Once they saw they wouldn't they sat back and said screw it. Bettman only came back to the table due to pressure from some owners. He holds grudges and couldn't give a flying **** if they settle or not.
It is something isn't it- seeing Bettman squirm as he's pressured into taking a huge win. Hell, the players broke the entire NHL negotiation strategy and they're still losing big.

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01-01-2013, 06:56 PM
  #612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
It is something isn't it- seeing Bettman squirm as he's pressured into taking a huge win. Hell, the players broke the entire NHL negotiation strategy and they're still losing big.
The only reason we are still without our beloved sport is because bettman is a petulant whiny baby. I hate fehr but he is hardly an idiot. He knows how far he can go if the players want to play this year. I also think the owners have had this 48 game plan as the only one they wanted. The savings on travel alone will make sure they minimize many of their losses.

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01-01-2013, 06:59 PM
  #613
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Alright. I can't take it anymore. I need hockey to come back. I haven't missed it until just now when I realized I should be watching the winter classic.

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01-01-2013, 08:16 PM
  #614
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Surely the fact that they league is determined to respond tonight rather than just postpone until tomorrow is a good sign right?

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01-01-2013, 08:33 PM
  #615
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On top of free Center Ice, the league should also have a one game play-in between the 8-9 seeds for the last playoff spot.

Hell, do it for the last two. 7-10, 8-9. One games, winners get in.

Oh, and they can't be decided by shootout.

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01-01-2013, 08:33 PM
  #616
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20 minutes ago
Real_ESPNLeBrun: Update: meeting now expected to start at 9 pm ET. League needed extra time to complete its response to NHLPA counter.

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01-01-2013, 08:52 PM
  #617
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I'm not trusting this the NHL can't have a harsh response to anything from the PA or they will dissolve, the NHL is going to get through today and then thursday is the perfect day for this all to fall apart.

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01-01-2013, 08:59 PM
  #618
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14 minutes ago
Real_ESPNLeBrun: Hearing NHL new counter offer it has worked on last 24 hrs is comprehensive; hence the delay this evening putting finishing touches on it

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01-01-2013, 09:02 PM
  #619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooner st View Post
14 minutes ago
Real_ESPNLeBrun: Hearing NHL new counter offer it has worked on last 24 hrs is comprehensive; hence the delay this evening putting finishing touches on it
So if my math is correct, this offer tonight by the NHL would be the third consecutive offer in fairly rapid succession that hasn't caused the other party to immediately walk away in disgust. I'd call that a success on it's own

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01-01-2013, 09:24 PM
  #620
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9 minutes ago
saraorlesky: No real sense as to how long this meeting may go tonight. Could be an hour, could be 5. #tsn #cba

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01-01-2013, 09:27 PM
  #621
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Andrew Ference at the meeting representing the players.

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01-01-2013, 09:30 PM
  #622
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Someone get the tea ready, this is going to be a long night.

But will the podium be there.

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01-01-2013, 09:33 PM
  #623
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I hope I wake up to good news.

Drop the puck damn it.

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01-01-2013, 09:50 PM
  #624
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The biggest thing to come out of this lockout is how much I hate Allan Walsh.

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01-01-2013, 09:53 PM
  #625
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Quote:
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The biggest thing to come out of this lockout is how much I hate Allan Walsh.
Same.


And some players whom I used to respect after the crap they've been spewing on twitter.

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