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Official-2013 World Juniors Thread - STARTS TODAY!

View Poll Results: Who's taking home gold
Canada 101 64.33%
USA 8 5.10%
Russia 22 14.01%
Finland 7 4.46%
Sweden 5 3.18%
Germany 1 0.64%
Switzerland 0 0%
Slovakia 1 0.64%
Czech Republic 0 0%
Latvia 12 7.64%
Voters: 157. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-29-2012, 09:08 AM
  #551
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Man these Russians look 10x more dangerous offensively than the Canadians.

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12-29-2012, 09:52 AM
  #552
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Boy...I sure hope posters here aren't going to judge players just on their WJC games that said posters have watched. You know, like where they are going to be drafted etc. This tournament is not the be all end all of these player's development.

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12-29-2012, 10:03 AM
  #553
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Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
Boy...I sure hope posters here aren't going to judge players just on their WJC games that said posters have watched. You know, like where they are going to be drafted etc. This tournament is not the be all end all of these player's development.
What do you mean? Less than 10 games against very unequal opponents, coached by a person who barely knows you, in a foreign country isn't an accurate representation of what a player is?

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12-29-2012, 10:06 AM
  #554
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Tobias Reider with a huge save!

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12-29-2012, 10:23 AM
  #555
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
Man these Russians look 10x more dangerous offensively than the Canadians.
Not really. Outside of their PP there isn't a lot of puck movement.

This one on one stuff won't work against Canada just like it didn't really work against the US.

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12-29-2012, 10:25 AM
  #556
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Yeah I agree. Don't really see a whole lot in their teams game that shows they are more dangerous than us. If they get going then look out but right now I'd say Canada has looked like they have the edge.

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12-29-2012, 10:32 AM
  #557
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Galchenyuk plays well against Germany and everyone lathers him up..

Yak plays well and... It's Germany.

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12-29-2012, 10:36 AM
  #558
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Not really. Outside of their PP there isn't a lot of puck movement.

This one on one stuff won't work against Canada just like it didn't really work against the US.
That will depend on the spots they pick to try it (and they will).

Your kidding yourself if you think Russian players can't beat Canadian players one on one.

The thing about it is...Russian's don't typically turn the puck over in the most damaging areas. If you watch closer you'll notice they don't attack opposing defencemen until they're deep into the corners of the big rink. It effectivley gains the zone...not much different than a shoot-in...just a lot more skating/energy expended.

And people will say...well...its better to just chip the puck or pass it if all your going to do is burn your legs up gaining the zone.

But...the thing is...there is still a ratio of times where Russian guys get around defenders and those are the plays that decide games.

They had a huge one on one play to produce a GWG versus USA and pretty much showed they have the skating and the skill to do it with enough success to win a hockey game.

Do they need to pass a bit more? Sure.

But for the most part they're playing the style they're known for and it works for them. History shows.

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12-29-2012, 11:54 AM
  #559
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Originally Posted by Everest View Post
That will depend on the spots they pick to try it (and they will).

Your kidding yourself if you think Russian players can't beat Canadian players one on one.

The thing about it is...Russian's don't typically turn the puck over in the most damaging areas. If you watch closer you'll notice they don't attack opposing defencemen until they're deep into the corners of the big rink. It effectivley gains the zone...not much different than a shoot-in...just a lot more skating/energy expended.

And people will say...well...its better to just chip the puck or pass it if all your going to do is burn your legs up gaining the zone.

But...the thing is...there is still a ratio of times where Russian guys get around defenders and those are the plays that decide games.

They had a huge one on one play to produce a GWG versus USA and pretty much showed they have the skating and the skill to do it with enough success to win a hockey game.

Do they need to pass a bit more? Sure.

But for the most part they're playing the style they're known for and it works for them. History shows.
I don't think any of them can beat Hamilton one on one but most of the Russian team can beat any of Murphy, Rielly, and Wotherspoon off the hop. The thing is that the Canadian forwards are a lot more capable of providing help, especially given they know the Russian tendency to drive the net. This is why they couldn't get much going against the US or even Slovakia, who despite their whining play solid team defense.

This Russian team is pretty good in their own zone but, at even strength, they fall to pieces whenever they cross into the offensive zone.

Assuming a decent goaltending performance from Subban, I'll be shocked if Canada loses on Monday.

For a country with the second deepest talent pool in the world I don't think Russia has had as much best-on-best international success as it should have over the past 10-15 years. I suspect this is largely due to their abandoning the team game that made them Canada's equal for such a long period of time.

40 years after the Summit Series and Canadians are playing the role of skilled puck movers while Russians crash, bang and drive the net. Madness.

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12-29-2012, 12:06 PM
  #560
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Also, neither of us said that the Russians "can't" overpower us. Simply that we don't see if happening. I even stated in my post that if the Russians get going and playing as a team we will be in for some trouble.

However, throughout this tournament they have not shown that they are the better team and Canada has come together since the exhibition games. Provided a good game from our goalie (jury is still out) I honestly don't see Canada having too much of a problem with Russia unless their top line starts clicking.

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12-29-2012, 02:15 PM
  #561
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From what I have seen of Dougie Hamilton going back to Selection Camp...Id suggest he IS "beatable" in a one x one match up.

Also...I still believe the Russian style is one they can win this tournament with. Its really not about "style" though. It comes down to execution and it would be extremley arrogant of any Canadian to think Russia is beatable simply because they don't play the same style as Canada.

Theres more than one way to skin the cat and especially on international ice its a safe bet Russia will have things figured out just fine by the time these two contenders meet. I expect an excellent game.

In the meantime...we've got USA to worry about.

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12-29-2012, 02:20 PM
  #562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everest View Post
From what I have seen of Dougie Hamilton going back to Selection Camp...Id suggest he IS "beatable" in a one x one match up.

Also...I still believe the Russian style is one they can win this tournament with. Its really not about "style" though. It comes down to execution and it would be extremley arrogant of any Canadian to think Russia is beatable simply because they don't play the same style as Canada.

Theres more than one way to skin the cat and especially on international ice its a safe bet Russia will have things figured out just fine by the time these two contenders meet. I expect an excellent game.

In the meantime...we've got USA to worry about.
I definitely think the Russian style is enough to win this tournament. But as you said its about execution and I haven't seen them execute yet like they can..that is all.

As for Dougie Hamilton. They way he was pumped up I expected a lot more. He has been very average, as have most of our d.

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12-29-2012, 02:31 PM
  #563
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I definitely think the Russian style is enough to win this tournament. But as you said its about execution and I haven't seen them execute yet like they can..that is all.

As for Dougie Hamilton. They way he was pumped up I expected a lot more. He has been very average, as have most of our d.
Totally agree.

Another thing Russia can do...even when they aren't mastering the puck handling/passing we expect from them...they can & will shoot/score from long(er) range.

In fact...some of the critical review on the goaltending Canada has had in the last few tourneys' can be somewhat attributed to the idea that Russian players (on average) shoot harder/quicker/better than Canadians.

Now...thats a very vaugue and debatable thing for me to say...but...personally...I believe it has some merit.

Just re-examine the finer details of some of the snipes some of these Russian guys make from 30+ feet. Canadian goalies don't typically see shooters who can do what MOST Russians can do. Not in my opinion at least.

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12-29-2012, 02:38 PM
  #564
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Oh yeah, really worried about our goaltending again. Seems to be a reoccurring theme every year. And again, I don't feel confident with Subban.

Such a big question mark in net right now for us its hard to say what the outcome will be for sure.

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12-29-2012, 02:41 PM
  #565
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Goaltending has been a concern for the last few years. It's getting to the point where Hockey Canada will probably start to become worried about it legitimately affecting the senior team. There has been a dearth of top end Canadian goaltenders being developed in the last 5-10 years.

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12-29-2012, 02:52 PM
  #566
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Originally Posted by scid14 View Post
Oh yeah, really worried about our goaltending again. Seems to be a reoccurring theme every year. And again, I don't feel confident with Subban.

Such a big question mark in net right now for us its hard to say what the outcome will be for sure.
I think it boils down to expectations, really.

Remembering all these players are just kids...and especially the goalies...are not going to be air tight by NHL standards. They're still learning the game and they lack a lot of big game experience.

Therefore...I have learned over the years that you don't expect your goalie to be counted to keep opponents from scoring.

Its up to the entire team to defend their net and a big part of this is to (sometimes) control emotions and also speed of the game. If/when we do this...I think our goaltending can make us proud.

Ultimatley...all I can ask of Subban is to make a few key saves AFTER a questionable goal beats him and I'd say he's done that much...so far.

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12-29-2012, 03:59 PM
  #567
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Might be small, but I hope TSN color guys don't call a dive a 'heady play' just because a Canadian player did it.

I dunno, to me that was cringe worthy. A dive is a dive.

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12-29-2012, 04:11 PM
  #568
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Goaltending has been a concern for the last few years. It's getting to the point where Hockey Canada will probably start to become worried about it legitimately affecting the senior team. There has been a dearth of top end Canadian goaltenders being developed in the last 5-10 years.
At all levels people are coaching goaltending poorly in Canada. Canadian coaches have swung way too far on the butterfly/puck blocking pendulum and coached a lot of the technique and athleticism out of the position.

Patrick Roy did to Canadian goaltending what Alex Ovechkin is doing to Russian forwards. Both players were/are amazing talents but focusing on the most distinguishing parts of a successful player's game and imitating it is a poor way to learn to play.

Young Canadian goaltenders would have been better served if their coaches put as much focus on teaching them how to skate/challenge a shooter as they did on butterfly slides. Young Russian forwards would have been better served if their coaches put as much focus on passing drills as they did on shooting and stick handling drills.

As for the men's national team comment: after Carey Price, Braden Holtby is the only goaltender I hold out much hope for.


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12-29-2012, 04:13 PM
  #569
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Might be small, but I hope TSN color guys don't call a dive a 'heady play' just because a Canadian player did it.

I dunno, to me that was cringe worthy. A dive is a dive.
Ferraro has annoyed me this tournament (I usually like his commentary). Between his fawning over the Nuge, berating of Yakupov, and defense of diving, he is putting on a Hughsonesque display of homerism.

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12-29-2012, 04:57 PM
  #570
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That save by Rieder was insane! That assist by Nail was a very high skilled play as well. Passed the puck between his teammates skates and then sends a perfectly placed backhand pass to Zharkov for the goal.

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12-29-2012, 05:19 PM
  #571
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
Might be small, but I hope TSN color guys don't call a dive a 'heady play' just because a Canadian player did it.

I dunno, to me that was cringe worthy. A dive is a dive.
Totally agree. I ranted at my TV when that happened. What a ridiculous double standard.

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12-29-2012, 05:23 PM
  #572
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It's going to be really something when the NHL finally comes back.



Taylor Hall
Jordan Eberle
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
Nail Yakupov
Justin Schultz


This team is going to be really special going forward.

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12-29-2012, 05:42 PM
  #573
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That save by Rieder was insane! That assist by Nail was a very high skilled play as well. Passed the puck between his teammates skates and then sends a perfectly placed backhand pass to Zharkov for the goal.
One thing Yakupov doesn't get enough credit for is how good of a passer he is.

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12-29-2012, 05:45 PM
  #574
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Germany's goalie Cupper played very well and prevented this from being a 12-0 game.

No need to worry about Yakupov offensive game. When people said he didn't produce much in WJC's games, and he was too "individualistic" as described at pregame by Ferraro, it was due to the system Russia's play.

Watched their game against American and really closely today, here's the offensive system on offensive rush that Russia plays:
- Forward carries puck in with speed and gain blue line as much as possible, do not pass once getting to red line(probably not wanting neutral zone turnovers, and believe they've enough skill/speed to gain zone most of time on big ice)
- If puck carrier has no speed or boxed in, then make short pass for give n go between red line and blue line to gain zone
- Never shoot the puck in, unless going for line change

- Once gaining zone, try beat d 1 on 1 and get to the net (if no open teammate available for a pass), if not able to, plan B is to use the opposing Dman as screen for screen shot
- Plan C is to carry it deep then make a play (even if they lose puck, it's deep in opponent zone and limits the opponent chances of a quick counter attack)

Every Russian forward follows that, not just Yakupov, so they are all prone to losing puck deep in the opponent zone if the opponent plays sound defense. And if you are Yakupov, you are dealing with the opponent's top defensive fwd/d unit, which means it's going to be tough go for Yakupov's line during even strength most of the game.

When they played a lesser team in Germany, there are a lot more room to operate and open teammate to pass to today compare to against the very good US team. And naturally, Yakupov has more success with gaining zone, making plays and passing to teammates in the offensive zone today.

It's just the way their system is, it makes the Russian forwards look individualistic and holding on to the puck too much, but they really aren't, they are just following the team's game plan.

Zharkov played well and looked okay on Yakupov's line today, but he's not a top skilled guy. Yakupov played well enough today to get 4/5 pts if his centerman didn't miss a couple of tap-ins and if they have a higher skilled left winger on the line.

If anything, I worry more about how Yakupov's defensive board play in his own zone than his offense. He seems to have problem winning board battles in the d zone. It's the type of weakness that can be improved as times go on tho.

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12-29-2012, 05:58 PM
  #575
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From what I have seen of Dougie Hamilton going back to Selection Camp...Id suggest he IS "beatable" in a one x one match up.

Also...I still believe the Russian style is one they can win this tournament with. Its really not about "style" though. It comes down to execution and it would be extremley arrogant of any Canadian to think Russia is beatable simply because they don't play the same style as Canada.

Theres more than one way to skin the cat and especially on international ice its a safe bet Russia will have things figured out just fine by the time these two contenders meet. I expect an excellent game.

In the meantime...we've got USA to worry about.
Dont forget to mention that russia have hometeam advantage and Canada does not.
For once Canada will not have the benefit off being able to get away with tons of penelties just due to preassure on the refs.
Ah its gonna be nice

Now all we would need is a team that also goes for the borderline injury play and cosmos would be in balance

With that said im 100% sure sweden wont surpass the semis this year so good luck in the finals and have fun..

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