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12'/13' Draft Thread: Offensive flash is a beauty but defensive presence rules.

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01-06-2013, 06:44 PM
  #526
FishManSam
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My BPA

Mackinnon
Barkov
Jones
Drouin
Lindholm

Only difference for who I would select, would be swap Linholm and Drouin.

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01-06-2013, 06:45 PM
  #527
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I'm sure if Burke had a choice to pick Seth Jones, given he is a WHL player, an American born and developed product, his love for Pronger type D men, does anyone doubt he would go against most Hockey Scouts opinions and not pick him after witnessing how he was one of the 3 key D men that helped USA just win gold at the worlds.
What if Nate wins the Presidents and Memorial Cup? He would be a key reason..

He'd take Nate no question. No more D unless he was definitely bpa.

Though if we had the option at first overall, Burke wouldn't be the GM to make that call

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01-06-2013, 06:47 PM
  #528
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Grigorenko has looked better than Yakupov, and Gally. But If you ask me Rielly has the most potential of all of them. It's too bad for him he was treated like a 5th or 6th D man by Spott. This is not being a Leafs homer, it is simply a fact. Playing him with Murphy was a full blown waste. And if one didn't read box scores Gally was invisible for pretty much the entire tournament. Ask the USA fans that saw him play, at the end he was playing behind Troechek and Biggs. Far less effective.
Grigs had top 4-5 skill, he just came with the Russian factor that scared teams. He's been dominating all year. Could be a big steal

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01-06-2013, 06:48 PM
  #529
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Originally Posted by mapes View Post
I'm not going to lie, I'm a huge Drouin fan. Anyone who knows me or sees me post would know. I'm not sure I'd take him before Jones TBH but for me, I'd debate. Would you rather Pronger or Giroux? Is there a wrong answer? Drouins value, as I've stated, could be vastly different if he returns to the Q next year and plays center. Without Nate, I see no reason why he wouldn't play there. His style does suit it.

I'm not saying I see risk in Jones personally, just that defence is harder to adapt to at the next level and thus, harder to predict. I've only seen him a few times (his WJC games) so I can't comment much on him personally. I don't put much stock into these games. If I did Drouin should go before Nate. But he won't, it's just a short tournament.

Nate will play in the NHL next year too though and he is the guy I've argued should go first. His all around game is superb, one of the best 2 way 17 year old forwards I've seen in awhile.

Also consider they are almost a year apart in age
I love Drouin too, again I don't see anyone going wrong with either 3. Even Columbus can't screw this up.

In the end adding Jones to Rielly and Phaneuf is a franchise game changer. I think Rielly and Jones can play in the NHL next year. Give them the exact same time as Drew Doughty, Doughty was already dominant at age 19 at the Olympics and this team can do some damage with talent like this from the back line.

As Burke has said many times, I like to build my teams from the net out. He loves his D men, and Jones is the most promising one I have seen since Doughty. Thanks for being honest at least, I can respect your loyalty to Halifax players.

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01-06-2013, 06:49 PM
  #530
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But Reilly does ooze potential, completely misused in the WJC.

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01-06-2013, 06:50 PM
  #531
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Originally Posted by mapes View Post
What if Nate wins the Presidents and Memorial Cup? He would be a key reason..

He'd take Nate no question. No more D unless he was definitely bpa.

Though if we had the option at first overall, Burke wouldn't be the GM to make that call
I have no problem with Nate, have him squarely at #2 with the only chance of moving past Jones.

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01-06-2013, 06:52 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I love Drouin too, again I don't see anyone going wrong with either 3. Even Columbus can't screw this up.

In the end adding Jones to Rielly and Phaneuf is a franchise game changer. I think Rielly and Jones can play in the NHL next year. Give them the exact same time as Drew Doughty, Doughty was already dominant at age 19 at the Olympics and this team can do some damage with talent like this from the back line.

As Burke has said many times, I like to build my teams from the net out. He loves his D men, and Jones is the most promising one I have seen since Doughty. Thanks for being honest at least, I can respect your loyalty to Halifax players.
As badly as I want a top line young star at forward, having Jones on our d-core would just be epic and I wouldnt complain...

Edmonton has Nuge, Hall, Eberle, Yakupov .. We'll counter with Jones, Rielly, Gardiner, etc..

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01-06-2013, 06:52 PM
  #533
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Your hunches haven't been good of late, I am glad you think so.
I don't have a history of hunches for you to base this on.... sorry?

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01-06-2013, 06:55 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Johnson and Lawton were both college players their draft year, Jones isn't. Time has no relevance on busts.

Whether it's Joe Murphy in 86 or Kyle Turris in 2007 or Blake Wheeler in 2004.
Just like Daigle right? He was a Q player just like Drouin and MacKinnon. Guess Monahan is the way to go.

Honestly I have no idea what you're trying to say here. I don't even know what "time has no relevance on busts" means. Johnson and Lawton played in the same league and that means something?

I'm lost.

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01-06-2013, 06:56 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by LeafDangler View Post
It absolutely does. Scouting and drafting has come a long long way from the 80s. Information and access to it has improved leaps and bounds since then so much so that any comparison is seriously flawed.
Not as much as you believe, teams had scouts back then also, some teams more than others. We are not talking about 72 when no one scouted Sweden until Macnamara went over to see Hammarstrom and found Salming. That opened up the floodgates of scouts oversees. As evidenced by the multiple Euros drafted afterwards.

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01-06-2013, 06:59 PM
  #536
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Just like Daigle right? He was a Q player just like Drouin and MacKinnon. Guess Monahan is the way to go.

Honestly I have no idea what you're trying to say here. I don't even know what "time has no relevance on busts" means. Johnson and Lawton played in the same league and that means something?

I'm lost.
I'm lost that you are lost, since you brought up 83. You probably don't know Erik Johnson was a college player when drafted, why do you think I brought up Lawton? College player right? Mapes was making a Johnson reference and I said you can't compare them since Jones is not playing in College this year, he's playing in the WHL, far better league with a better track record. Get it now? Year has no bearing, college developed perhaps. Wheeler, Murphy, Turris. act...

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01-06-2013, 06:59 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I love Drouin too, again I don't see anyone going wrong with either 3. Even Columbus can't screw this up.

In the end adding Jones to Rielly and Phaneuf is a franchise game changer. I think Rielly and Jones can play in the NHL next year. Give them the exact same time as Drew Doughty, Doughty was already dominant at age 19 at the Olympics and this team can do some damage with talent like this from the back line.

As Burke has said many times, I like to build my teams from the net out. He loves his D men, and Jones is the most promising one I have seen since Doughty. Thanks for being honest at least, I can respect your loyalty to Halifax players.
If Columbus picks first, they'd take Nate no question. Struggling team needing a poster boy. It really depends who has first.

Thing is, though, we already have tons of D. Blacker, Holzer, Finn and Reilly could make a run in the next couple years. You also forgot Gardiner, he's great as well. Then you still got Gunner. Meanwhile who are our top forward prospects? I still like Kadri but after him? Look at our center depth, or lack thereof

I am loyal to the Moose, no question. But it's also because I see them more and see the potential more. We also haven't provided the best talent so seeing talent like this is nice (we've had a few). I would like Fucale as well unlikely though

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01-06-2013, 07:01 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by BertCorbeau View Post
As badly as I want a top line young star at forward, having Jones on our d-core would just be epic and I wouldnt complain...

Edmonton has Nuge, Hall, Eberle, Yakupov .. We'll counter with Jones, Rielly, Gardiner, etc..
I sure wouldn't get upset if that happens. But i think we need to start stockpiling 1st line forwards.

I'm changing by the day.

I'd take Nate, Barkov and Drouin over Jones (if given the chance). Then Monahan if all 4 are off the board.

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01-06-2013, 07:03 PM
  #539
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Originally Posted by BertCorbeau View Post
As badly as I want a top line young star at forward, having Jones on our d-core would just be epic and I wouldnt complain...

Edmonton has Nuge, Hall, Eberle, Yakupov .. We'll counter with Jones, Rielly, Gardiner, etc..
Me too. I didn't before the tourney, and I certainly wouldn't complain after seeing him the last 3 games of the tourney, just played better as the games got better and more important. How anyone could be disappointed if Burke called his name is a mystery to me.

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01-06-2013, 07:04 PM
  #540
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Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
I sure wouldn't get upset if that happens. But i think we need to start stockpiling 1st line forwards.

I'm changing by the day.

I'd take Nate, Barkov and Drouin over Jones (if given the chance). Then Monahan if all 4 are off the board.
This. Exactly.

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01-06-2013, 07:06 PM
  #541
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I'm sure if Burke had a choice to pick Seth Jones, given he is a WHL player, an American born and developed product, his love for Pronger type D men, does anyone doubt he would go against most Hockey Scouts opinions and not pick him after witnessing how he was one of the 3 key D men that helped USA just win gold at the worlds.
I know Burke has an affinity for his big boy D, especially Americans, but I think he would still go BPA. If he thinks it's Mac, it's Mac. I don't think he's gonna let a preference like that sway such an important decision.

What I mean is, if he has Jones as the best prospect, it's not because he's American, or his style of player, or because he likes the cut of his jib, it's because he thinks he's BPA, and nothing more. If you let a style preference or nationality dictate who you take 1st overall, your a terrible GM and wouldn't be working in the NHL for more then 20 mins, let alone over 20 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BertCorbeau View Post
As badly as I want a top line young star at forward, having Jones on our d-core would just be epic and I wouldnt complain...

Edmonton has Nuge, Hall, Eberle, Yakupov .. We'll counter with Jones, Rielly, Gardiner, etc..
relegating Phaneuf to 'etc' seems like a huge mistake. He is and will be for a while, our #1D.

But that would be an awesome core to move forward with.

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01-06-2013, 07:07 PM
  #542
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Me too. I didn't before the tourney, and I certainly wouldn't complain after seeing him the last 3 games of the tourney, just played better as the games got better and more important. How anyone could be disappointed if Burke called his name is a mystery to me.
Burke wouldn't be here

I wouldn't be "disappointed" per se, but I wouldn't see the point adding another dman. If he turns out like Pronger great, we'll love him but we desperately need a center in a bad way. We haven't had a good one since Mats left

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01-06-2013, 07:12 PM
  #543
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I know Burke has an affinity for his big boy D, especially Americans, but I think he would still go BPA. If he thinks it's Mac, it's Mac. I don't think he's gonna let a preference like that sway such an important decision.

What I mean is, if he has Jones as the best prospect, it's not because he's American, or his style of player, or because he likes the cut of his jib, it's because he thinks he's BPA, and nothing more. If you let a style preference or nationality dictate who you take 1st overall, your a terrible GM and wouldn't be working in the NHL for more then 20 mins, let alone over 20 years.



relegating Phaneuf to 'etc' seems like a huge mistake. He is and will be for a while, our #1D.

But that would be an awesome core to move forward with.
It's hard coming away from this tournament and not thinking anything that Jones isn't the BPA. I know a scout that has flipped Mackinnon and Jones to first after the Worlds. Now Mackinnon wasn't placed in a position of importance as Jones was, not going to blame him for this. So there is still wriggle room, but Burke went to see these games in person, speaking to the importance of the tourney to the GM's eyes. He was clearly impressed by Drouin and Jones. No doubt Jones made an impression on him. He will go BPA, and just because we drafted a D man last year, that will not make him pick a fwd this year. We know this already with the Rielly pick.

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01-06-2013, 07:16 PM
  #544
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Burke wouldn't be here

I wouldn't be "disappointed" per se, but I wouldn't see the point adding another dman. If he turns out like Pronger great, we'll love him but we desperately need a center in a bad way. We haven't had a good one since Mats left
We can always trade a D man if we compile a riches of D men in the system, the roster is not a completed work. Other ways of skinning a cat. But Rielly, Phaneuf and lord help us Jones would be a defensive core unmatched in the NHL.

I'm also stoked about Nilsson, he surprised me, this guy might be ahead of Finn and Percy. High hopes for Tom.

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01-06-2013, 07:16 PM
  #545
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I see the Leafs finishing somewhere in the bottom 10. You can't really go wrong with any of the players there..

MacKinnon
Jones
Drouin
Barkov
Pulock
Monahan
Lindholm
Ristolainen
Shinkaruk
Nichushkin

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01-06-2013, 07:20 PM
  #546
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
We can always trade a D man if we compile a riches of D men in the system, the roster is not a completed work. Other ways of skinning a cat. But Rielly, Phaneuf and lord help us Jones would be a defensive core unmatched in the NHL.

I'm also stoked about Nilsson, he surprised me, this guy might be ahead of Finn and Percy. High hopes for Tom.
Me too .. Really looking forward to him coming across to North America

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01-06-2013, 07:28 PM
  #547
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
We can always trade a D man if we compile a riches of D men in the system, the roster is not a completed work. Other ways of skinning a cat. But Rielly, Phaneuf and lord help us Jones would be a defensive core unmatched in the NHL.

I'm also stoked about Nilsson, he surprised me, this guy might be ahead of Finn and Percy. High hopes for Tom.
Been high on him since the prospect camp, he really impressed me and was better then every dman there except Rielly of course.

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01-06-2013, 07:28 PM
  #548
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We can always trade a D man if we compile a riches of D men in the system, the roster is not a completed work. Other ways of skinning a cat. But Rielly, Phaneuf and lord help us Jones would be a defensive core unmatched in the NHL.

I'm also stoked about Nilsson, he surprised me, this guy might be ahead of Finn and Percy. High hopes for Tom.
Don't forget Gardiner.

Be a great d corps but centres are so hard to find. 5 years since we've had a good one

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01-06-2013, 07:32 PM
  #549
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
It's hard coming away from this tournament and not thinking anything that Jones isn't the BPA. I know a scout that has flipped Mackinnon and Jones to first after the Worlds. Now Mackinnon wasn't placed in a position of importance as Jones was, not going to blame him for this. So there is still wriggle room, but Burke went to see these games in person, speaking to the importance of the tourney to the GM's eyes. He was clearly impressed by Drouin and Jones. No doubt Jones made an impression on him. He will go BPA, and just because we drafted a D man last year, that will not make him pick a fwd this year. We know this already with the Rielly pick.
I don't know what Burke is thinking, but coming from Canada's performance, I'm not putting much weight in scouting the WJC Canada team as much as usual. I think Spott did a terrible job.

Jones was used as a 1D, NM was used as a 4C.

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01-06-2013, 07:32 PM
  #550
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Been high on him since the prospect camp, he really impressed me and was better then every dman there except Rielly of course.
He might be better than Percy who was picked 75 picks before him. He's really calm with the puck, low panic threshold. Didn't expect this, high IQ player, the one check he threw in the tourney made me think of the comparison with Konstantinov. Just hope this is the springboard he needs to take it to another level.

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