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NHL lockout: Fehr unafraid of long fight

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Old
12-20-2012, 11:42 AM
  #1
TaketheCannoli
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NHL lockout: Fehr unafraid of long fight

Interesting perspective on Donald Fehr.

http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com/...ong-fight.html

Quote:
Fehr aspired to be a trial lawyer, dreading the big corporate jobs with what he called “sort of faithless institutions.” He wound up at a small firm and, by chance, in a supporting role in the Andy Messersmith case, which bestowed free agency upon baseball players.

Marvin Miller, the founding director of the baseball players union, was so impressed, he hired Fehr as the union’s in-house counsel in 1977. Fehr ascended to executive director in 1983, in an era when the end of a collective-bargaining agreement invariably led to a work stoppage.
Interesting story about the 1994 Baseball strike:

Quote:
Gary DiSarcina, then the California Angels’ shortstop and player representative, recalled Fehr’s advising the players not to hold workouts during the strike.

“Go on vacation,” Fehr said, according to DiSarcina. “Go do something else. The quicker you get out of shape, the more urgency there will be. They don’t want to cancel the World Series.”

On Sept. 14, 1994, commissioner Bud Selig canceled the World Series...

Fehr was not standing with the fans of the great American pastime then, just as he is not standing with the fans of the great Canadian pastime now. He is standing with the players, as the head of a union, in a position in which just about all the publicity is bad publicity.


Tough guy!

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12-20-2012, 11:56 AM
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Fehr don't care.

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12-20-2012, 11:56 AM
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Fehr probably has the players believing its "us against the world". Lemmings

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12-20-2012, 12:10 PM
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Fehr doesn't lose out at all if these things drag on.

It's the players who should be wondering just how many game checks they're going to miss. These guys have a short window to make all the money they can, and a year is forever to a lot of these guys. Their bodies are aging by the day, and checks keep passing them by while Fehr plays games with the ownership. If I was a player, I'd be ever more unhappy with the union leadership. Get a deal and get me on the ice.

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12-20-2012, 12:14 PM
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I think Fehr cares about the people that pay him to look out for their collective interests.
“We have to remind people that the words we use — free agency, the reserve system, the amateur draft and all that stuff — are simply economic devices to control prices,” Fehr said. “That is all they are. Owners like them, because the way they control the price is to lower the price of what they buy and to increase the price of what they sell. That is what cartels do.”
Then the old baseball guy reached back for one last fastball.
“Player rights are not inconsistent with a booming industry,” Fehr said. “The proof is what the Dodgers sold for.”

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12-20-2012, 12:17 PM
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Why would he be concerned about a long fight? He will will still be standing in the end.

I disagree with the notion that he is about the players he represents though.

I don't think he cares about the players any more than he cares about the game.

He cares about the Association as if it's a separate living entity.

And with that, it makes no difference to him how many individual careers come and go during the course of a prolonged labour fight.

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12-20-2012, 12:17 PM
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Fehr stating the obvious.

The LA Dodgers comment is bordering on ludicrous.

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12-20-2012, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I think Fehr cares about the people that pay him to look out for their collective interests.
“We have to remind people that the words we use — free agency, the reserve system, the amateur draft and all that stuff — are simply economic devices to control prices,” Fehr said. “That is all they are. Owners like them, because the way they control the price is to lower the price of what they buy and to increase the price of what they sell. That is what cartels do.”
Then the old baseball guy reached back for one last fastball.
“Player rights are not inconsistent with a booming industry,” Fehr said. “The proof is what the Dodgers sold for.”

Ahh the old FREE market crap that is sinking the American economy. American's are raised to have holy reverence to the capitalist and free market system/ideology. Fehr is preying on those misgivings that American's are in the midst of finding out about right now.


Where's the" proof is what the Coyote's can't sell for?"

For every team that sells for a great return. There's one that has lost money consistently and sold for a pittance of a return on original investment. Cherry picking works for both sides of that argument.

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12-20-2012, 12:36 PM
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Of course Fehr is unafraid of long fight. He could shut the game down for 2 or more years and he wouldn't care. He's not a hockey fan - he doesn't get enjoyment out of watching games.

Hockey just happens to justify his existence in our lives right now, where his job is to cry wolf and to **** things up for as long as possible, so he can keep getting his big salary.

If there were labor peace, what good is he? Seriously.

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12-20-2012, 12:37 PM
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The players are free to play wherever they want to in the world.

If they want to play in the highest paying league in the world they'll likely have to accept all of those "evil" things.

I'm not sure how the players can truly believe such a free system will benefit anyone more than a select few superstars.

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12-20-2012, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeIFBB View Post
Fehr don't care.
That's right, I don't think he does. He'll fight to get the union all that he can, even if there isn't a League left to employ most of the players in the end. Hopefully the players won't let him take it that far.

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12-20-2012, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I think Fehr cares about the people that pay him to look out for their collective interests.
“We have to remind people that the words we use — free agency, the reserve system, the amateur draft and all that stuff — are simply economic devices to control prices,” Fehr said. “That is all they are. Owners like them, because the way they control the price is to lower the price of what they buy and to increase the price of what they sell. That is what cartels do.”
Then the old baseball guy reached back for one last fastball.
“Player rights are not inconsistent with a booming industry,” Fehr said. “The proof is what the Dodgers sold for.”
Ice hockey is a "BOOMING" industry? Good to know.

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12-20-2012, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacaar View Post
Ahh the old FREE market crap that is sinking the American economy. American's are raised to have holy reverence to the capitalist and free market system/ideology. Fehr is preying on those misgivings that American's are in the midst of finding out about right now.
Yep, with Fehr leading the way, the League could free-market itself right down to a minimum of teams, just like a small group of multi-nationals who wiped out all of the competition. Thank goodness though, it's a League and no merely a bunch of cut-throat capitalists trying to destroy each other and see comes out in the end, the survival of the fittest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Ice hockey is a "BOOMING" industry? Good to know.
Well, in truth it is at least somewhat "booming"; it's just that that booming has also widened the economic disparity in the League. And that's not to say that hockey hasn't been booming 90% of the League, it's just to say that the differential has widened.

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12-20-2012, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
Why would he be concerned about a long fight? He will will still be standing in the end.

I disagree with the notion that he is about the players he represents though.

I don't think he cares about the players any more than he cares about the game.

He cares about the Association as if it's a separate living entity.

And with that, it makes no difference to him how many individual careers come and go during the course of a prolonged labour fight.
How do you arrive at these conclusions? Have you read an autobiography, a biography, all of his interviews? I don't know how people ascribe values, beliefs and motives to someone who hasn't stated them him-/herself.

It's all well and good to have your own opinion about someone's belief system, but how is this to be taken as anything other than you just making it up, noting that Fehr isn't going to open an HF account and tell us directly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacaar View Post
Ahh the old FREE market crap that is sinking the American economy. American's are raised to have holy reverence to the capitalist and free market system/ideology. Fehr is preying on those misgivings that American's are in the midst of finding out about right now.


Where's the" proof is what the Coyote's can't sell for?"

For every team that sells for a great return. There's one that has lost money consistently and sold for a pittance of a return on original investment. Cherry picking works for both sides of that argument.

Oh dear. You missed the part where NHL teams are owned by 30 capitalists who do whatever they can to ensure they are all profitable. Including staging a lockout. The NHL can be run like a politburo, sharing all revenues and costs, apportioning to each as they need; and the players would all have identical worker salaries, dictated by the central planning committee.

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12-20-2012, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Yep, with Fehr leading the way, the League could free-market itself right down to a minimum of teams, just like a small group of multi-nationals who wiped out all of the competition. Thank goodness though, it's a League and no merely a bunch of cut-throat capitalists trying to destroy each other and see comes out in the end, the survival of the fittest.

What do you call what Philly did to Nashville?

Come on, MO. You're trying to tell us that these leopards have shed their spots.

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12-20-2012, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Well, in truth it is at least somewhat "booming"; it's just that that booming has also widened the economic disparity in the League. And that's not to say that hockey hasn't been booming 90% of the League, it's just to say that the differential has widened.
It's booming in the same three locations it has always boomed. Has anyone ever calculated what the salary cap would be without Toronto, Montreal, and New York in the equation. I am beginning to think the owners should be fighting to take these outliers out of the equation and substitute their numbers with the average of the other 27 franchises.

Maybe that's where negotiations should start from the NHL perspective after this season gets cancelled.

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12-20-2012, 12:58 PM
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Don Fehr is simply a Class A egomaniac who likes a fight. He's not a deal maker/businessman in any sense of the word. He's an antagonist lawyer. Don Fehr = work stoppage. Always has, always will.

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12-20-2012, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
How do you arrive at these conclusions? Have you read an autobiography, a biography, all of his interviews? I don't know how people ascribe values, beliefs and motives to someone who hasn't stated them him-/herself.
Why? Is it mandatory reading in order to have an opinion based on my own observations?

When Fehr says he wants a 5 year CBA so that he isn't negotiating for 14 year old's is he representing today's players or the Association as a principle?

When the average career lasts less than 2 years are his actions and willingness to prolong a labour dispute represent today's player or the Association as a principle?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
It's all well and good to have your own opinion about someone's belief system, but how is this to be taken as anything other than you just making it up, noting that Fehr isn't going to open an HF account and tell us directly.
Geez what gave it away? The parts where I said "I disagree" and "I don't think"?

It's your prerogative to disagree but spare me any lectures on the validity of my own personal opinions. Especially when you are so obvious in showing your own flexibility on anything CBA related.

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12-20-2012, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
Why? Is it mandatory reading in order to have an opinion based on my own observations?

When Fehr says he wants a 5 year CBA so that he isn't negotiating for 14 year old's is he representing today's players or the Association as a principle?

When the average career lasts less than 2 years are his actions and willingness to prolong a labour dispute represent today's player or the Association as a principle?


Geez what gave it away? The parts where I said "I disagree" and "I don't think"?

It's your prerogative to disagree but spare me any lectures on the validity of my own personal opinions. Especially when you are so obvious in showing your own flexibility on anything CBA related.

I'm in excellent company here with regard to 'flexibility' on the CBA issues. There are some posters who indeed are fairly neutral, but few and far between.

Here's what you said, which led to my response:

Quote:
I disagree with the notion that he is about the players he represents though.

I don't think he cares about the players any more than he cares about the game.

He cares about the Association as if it's a separate living entity.
I guess where I disagree is that it seems contradictory to me to separate 'the players he represents' from the Association. He represents all 700+, thus it has to be from the association perspective. What suits Crosby best may not be what suits the middle class or entry level player. The PA leadership has to come up with a platform that's not unduly favoring or punishing any of these guys at the others expense. The players also have to approve any CBA by a majority vote.

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12-20-2012, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
What do you call what Philly did to Nashville?

Come on, MO. You're trying to tell us that these leopards have shed their spots.
Well they still do have to compete on ice. And it seems that Nashville got just as far as Phily last year in the Playoffs. And both teams have made the Playoffs fairly regularly in recent years. So ok, they're in different Conferences, but on-ice-wise, but teams have been fairly equal competitively.

They put things in the CBA to try to help each other, but once the teams hit the ice, of course everyone is out for himself. And assembling your team, within the rules that exist, is part of that on-ice competition.

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12-20-2012, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I think Fehr cares about the people that pay him to look out for their collective interests.
“We have to remind people that the words we use — free agency, the reserve system, the amateur draft and all that stuff — are simply economic devices to control prices,” Fehr said. “That is all they are. Owners like them, because the way they control the price is to lower the price of what they buy and to increase the price of what they sell. That is what cartels do.”
Then the old baseball guy reached back for one last fastball.
“Player rights are not inconsistent with a booming industry,” Fehr said. “The proof is what the Dodgers sold for.”
Fehr is not a representative of fans. He has a fiduciary responsibility to the players.

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12-20-2012, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
It's booming in the same three locations it has always boomed. Has anyone ever calculated what the salary cap would be without Toronto, Montreal, and New York in the equation. I am beginning to think the owners should be fighting to take these outliers out of the equation and substitute their numbers with the average of the other 27 franchises.

Maybe that's where negotiations should start from the NHL perspective after this season gets cancelled.
No, well yes, there's where it is in fact Boom Booming, not just somewhat booming. And yes, if those 3 teams were out of the equation, there'd be hockey on the ice now and no fight over the salary situation.

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12-20-2012, 01:44 PM
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Ice hockey is a "BOOMING" industry? Good to know.
Why not ask Gary? He was the one going on about record revenues "for the league." He didn't say it was just three teams and took the credit. Per your assessment, we should give Dolan, MLSE and Molson all the credit.


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Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
Fehr is not a representative of fans. He has a fiduciary responsibility to the players.
I know. Somehow fans are trying to argue that the owners or Fehr should be in this for them.

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12-20-2012, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Here's what you said, which led to my response:
Yes and I stand by what I said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
The players also have to approve any CBA by a majority vote.
When it comes to labour issues, the players are Fehr's serfs.

And it's because of that level of responsibility that Fehr is so deserving of the ill will he often attracts.

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12-20-2012, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I know. Somehow fans are trying to argue that the owners or Fehr should be in this for them.
They should be. The only thing that will change their mind the next time is if the walls collapse after the lockout ends. If the fans come back in droves the owners and PA have zero reason to care about the fans or the game of hockey.

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