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Pouliot vs. Koekkek vs. Trouba vs. Maatta

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Old
12-21-2012, 11:21 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Definition View Post
Maatta
Trouba
Koekkek
Pouliot

Maatta is criminally underrated.
Doesn't make him better than Trouba, though.

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Old
12-21-2012, 11:26 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Jacko95 View Post
So what exactly makes Maatta better then Koekkoek? They have similar points, with the little difference that Maatta play on the best and koekkoek on the wearst team of the OHL and Koekkoek's -26 or so is no surprise to me as he plays 30min a game so he certainly has no chance to get a good +/-.

I would take Koekkoek over Maatta again.
So you ask why Maatta is considered better than Koekkoek, but you don't provide a solid argument as to why Koekkoek is better than Maatta.

You made the point about their teams (London being the best, Peterborough is the worst)

But let me ask you something, what makes Koekkoek better than Maatta?

I look at the stats for other Peterborough defensemen....

Clark Seymour: 32 GP and a -7
Steven Trojanovic: 33 GP and a -12
Steven Varga: 28 GP and a -6
Peter Ceresnak: 32 GP and a -13
Connor Boland: 17 GP and a -6
Slater Koekkoek: 35 GP and a -22

All these defenseman play for "the worst team in the OHL", 3 of them have only played 2 or 3 less games than Koekkoek, yet their +/- isn't like Koekkoek's. I'm not familiar with the Petes, Koekkoek might lead their team in TOI, but shouldn't having that much of a +/- differential compared to your team say something about the defense when he's on the ice?

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Old
12-21-2012, 11:30 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacko95 View Post
So what exactly makes Maatta better then Koekkoek? They have similar points, with the little difference that Maatta play on the best and koekkoek on the wearst team of the OHL and Koekkoek's -26 or so is no surprise to me as he plays 30min a game so he certainly has no chance to get a good +/-.

I would take Koekkoek over Maatta again.
Koekkoek might be as good offensively as Maattaa, but Maattaa has
incredibly good hockey sence and is also by far the better defensive player

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Old
12-21-2012, 11:47 AM
  #29
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That's a ballsy statement.
Maybe, maybe not. Murray is impressive, no doubt. Smooth and smart. Should be excellent defensively. Probably going to be a big minute eater too. He doesn't strike me as terribly dynamic, however. Moves the puck better than Zbynek Michalek (for example) but overall I see a similar game. People compare him to Niedermayer, but I can't see it at all. I'm not sure they could be a whole lot more different. I see Murray as a steady but quiet player. Don't get me wrong, he's got a lot of great qualities and should be an excellent D, but I don't think he's as dynamic as Trouba who in my opinion is just loaded with raw potential.

Rielly I like a lot. A ton of raw potential. I think he's more likely to completely miss than Trouba, though. Might end up a PP specialist or something. Rielly is pretty close. As is Murray. I think Trouba is a nice middle ground in terms of boom or bust between a home run swing like Rielly and a bit of a bunt (in terms of second overall picks) in Murray.

Reinhart is a little more polished than Trouba, and at least somewhat similar. He's like Trouba with the volume turned down a few notches. I like Reinhart and he's an impressive player, but I've seen him quite a few times and he's pretty quiet, as well. Reminds me of Eric Brewer, a lot. I'd give a very slight edge to Trouba.

To me, Murray, Rielly, Reinhart, and Trouba are all so, so close. I just like Trouba the tiniest bit more than each, and for completely different reasons. If given the choice, he'd be my selection but not by much at all.

Lindholm I can't comment on. I know nothing about him.

Dumba is also pretty raw, and also has a ton of tools. In that way he's like Trouba. He has the potential to be a very dynamic player. However, he's tiny and doesn't strike me as having the kind of build that's going to fill out tremendously. He's absolutely a player I worry about translating his game to the next level effectively.

Pouliot I'm not a fan of.

I don't know much, though. I've only seen a handful of games from each. I've seen the most of Trouba, which is probably why I like him the best, to be honest.

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Old
12-21-2012, 11:54 AM
  #30
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I believe that Trouba is the only one of the 4 with top pair potential so I would go him, I also see the other 3 having solid careers as 3,4,5 type of guys. I would say that Pouliot has the most potential after Trouba because of his slick offensive game and effortless skating. I have seen Koekkoek only one time live and if I wasent watching for him I wouldnt have noticed him, I would be shocked if he became anything more than a above average top 4 guy, Maatta seems like a lock to be a top 4 guy because he does everything so well.

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Old
12-21-2012, 12:00 PM
  #31
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I saw Määttä play live yesterday for the first time, and I was very impressed. He was rock solid in the defensive zone and he was very creative with the puck on the powerplay. I was very impressed by his offensive game, I always thought he was more of a stay-at-home type, but I was wrong.

I talked to a scout who was sitting right next to me at the game and we talked about some players and he said that Määttä will play in the NHL next season. Didn't say "probably" or "should" but just "will". He was clearly very high on this guy, and said that hes come a long long way from when he arrived in London last season.

Not taking any side on the who's better thing I just thought I would share this

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Old
12-21-2012, 12:10 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Who knows, way too early to say. I guess I'll go with:
1) Trouba
2) Pouliot
3) Maatta
4) Koekkoek
My picks ^

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Old
12-21-2012, 12:21 PM
  #33
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this is the order i have in mind. still cant believe pouliot went so high in the draft last year. its also a wonder a Pens didnt try to trade down and get him. im sure someone would have coughed up their 1st and a second
They had a lot of interest in him due to the fact he played with another pens prospect in Portland. They knew he wouldn't be there at 22 because they heard of other teams with interest. I heard rumors that Buffalo or Tampa Bay wanted him so I guess they just didn't wanna risk it.

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Old
12-21-2012, 12:48 PM
  #34
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I would say for future:

Maatta
Trouba
Pouliot
Koekkek

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Old
12-21-2012, 12:55 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YARR123 View Post
I saw Määttä play live yesterday for the first time, and I was very impressed. He was rock solid in the defensive zone and he was very creative with the puck on the powerplay. I was very impressed by his offensive game, I always thought he was more of a stay-at-home type, but I was wrong.

I talked to a scout who was sitting right next to me at the game and we talked about some players and he said that Määttä will play in the NHL next season. Didn't say "probably" or "should" but just "will". He was clearly very high on this guy, and said that hes come a long long way from when he arrived in London last season.

Not taking any side on the who's better thing I just thought I would share this
That definitely won't happen.

But he looked great last night.

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Old
12-21-2012, 12:59 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGoPens70 View Post
They had a lot of interest in him due to the fact he played with another pens prospect in Portland. They knew he wouldn't be there at 22 because they heard of other teams with interest. I heard rumors that Buffalo or Tampa Bay wanted him so I guess they just didn't wanna risk it.
Buffalo brought Pouliot and Maatta in before the draft for workouts/interviews. I believe they were very high on both and could have picked one of them if the draft unfolded differently. I believe the had Grigorenko in there top 3 or 4 picks still if you listen to Devines interview before the draft.

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Old
12-21-2012, 01:12 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacko95 View Post
So what exactly makes Maatta better then Koekkoek? They have similar points, with the little difference that Maatta play on the best and koekkoek on the wearst team of the OHL and Koekkoek's -26 or so is no surprise to me as he plays 30min a game so he certainly has no chance to get a good +/-.

I would take Koekkoek over Maatta again.
Comparing +/- on different teams is a useless stat. Maatta has the better defensive sense, much better skating and better passing. Koekkoek has the better shot and can hit better. IMO neither was worthy of the 10th overall pick, but I thought Maatta would go in the 12-15 range and Koekkoek would go in the 15-18 range. Koekkoek could end up being a better player, but as of now Maatta is the better OHL defenseman

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Old
12-21-2012, 01:25 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stayinalive View Post
Trouba
Pouliot
Maattaa
Koekkoek
agreed

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Old
12-21-2012, 01:58 PM
  #39
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I go:

Määttä
Pouliot
Trouba
Koekkoek

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Old
12-21-2012, 02:20 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
I believe that Trouba is the only one of the 4 with top pair potential so I would go him, I also see the other 3 having solid careers as 3,4,5 type of guys. I would say that Pouliot has the most potential after Trouba because of his slick offensive game and effortless skating. I have seen Koekkoek only one time live and if I wasent watching for him I wouldnt have noticed him, I would be shocked if he became anything more than a above average top 4 guy, Maatta seems like a lock to be a top 4 guy because he does everything so well.
I have to disagree on Maatta. As far as I'm concerned, he definitely has top-pairing potential. Emphasis on the potential.

There is no doubt in my mind that he and Trouba are in a different class than Koekkoek and Pouliot at this juncture in terms of polish and pro-readiness. But I don't count out either of the other two long-term. Koekkoek has had some tough luck early in his career, but could still blossom into a big-time player.

My order right now is: Trouba/Maatta tied, Koekkoek, Pouliot. I have never liked what I've seen of Pouliot. He has some tools, but a LONG way to go.

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Old
12-21-2012, 02:36 PM
  #41
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In terms of potential...
Pouliot
Maatta
Trouba
Koekoek

How I see them panning out...
Maatta
Trouba
Pouliot
Koekoek

Never really understood the appeal for Koekkoek. He's not a risky pick for sure (Reilly, Dumba, Pouliot), but he isn't quite a guarantee either (Murray, Maatta, Lindholm).

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Old
12-21-2012, 02:38 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
So you ask why Maatta is considered better than Koekkoek, but you don't provide a solid argument as to why Koekkoek is better than Maatta.

You made the point about their teams (London being the best, Peterborough is the worst)

But let me ask you something, what makes Koekkoek better than Maatta?

I look at the stats for other Peterborough defensemen....

Clark Seymour: 32 GP and a -7
Steven Trojanovic: 33 GP and a -12
Steven Varga: 28 GP and a -6
Peter Ceresnak: 32 GP and a -13
Connor Boland: 17 GP and a -6
Slater Koekkoek: 35 GP and a -22

All these defenseman play for "the worst team in the OHL", 3 of them have only played 2 or 3 less games than Koekkoek, yet their +/- isn't like Koekkoek's. I'm not familiar with the Petes, Koekkoek might lead their team in TOI, but shouldn't having that much of a +/- differential compared to your team say something about the defense when he's on the ice?
Well he plays up to 35 min per game and if I remember right he is about 29/30 min average and by the way their best scorer is on -18 by himself so I think he is not the problem for the high -

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Old
12-21-2012, 03:15 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacko95 View Post
Well he plays up to 35 min per game and if I remember right he is about 29/30 min average and by the way their best scorer is on -18 by himself so I think he is not the problem for the high -

And don't forget the HUGE factor is that he's lining up against the opponent's top lines consistently. There's a big difference between playing against Galchenyuk, Monahan, Griffith, Jenner, etc. or against 16 and 17-year-olds.

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Old
12-21-2012, 03:19 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by YARR123 View Post
I saw Määttä play live yesterday for the first time, and I was very impressed. He was rock solid in the defensive zone and he was very creative with the puck on the powerplay. I was very impressed by his offensive game, I always thought he was more of a stay-at-home type, but I was wrong.

I talked to a scout who was sitting right next to me at the game and we talked about some players and he said that Määttä will play in the NHL next season. Didn't say "probably" or "should" but just "will". He was clearly very high on this guy, and said that hes come a long long way from when he arrived in London last season.

Not taking any side on the who's better thing I just thought I would share this
I seriously doubt that Määttä plays in NHL next season. Lots of kids ahead of him on Pens depth chart. He's d-zone coverage needs more work.

He was solid last night, very solid though. Let's hope it stays that way for a couple of weeks at least .

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Old
12-21-2012, 06:41 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
So you ask why Maatta is considered better than Koekkoek, but you don't provide a solid argument as to why Koekkoek is better than Maatta.

You made the point about their teams (London being the best, Peterborough is the worst)

But let me ask you something, what makes Koekkoek better than Maatta?

I look at the stats for other Peterborough defensemen....

Clark Seymour: 32 GP and a -7
Steven Trojanovic: 33 GP and a -12
Steven Varga: 28 GP and a -6
Peter Ceresnak: 32 GP and a -13
Connor Boland: 17 GP and a -6
Slater Koekkoek: 35 GP and a -22

All these defenseman play for "the worst team in the OHL", 3 of them have only played 2 or 3 less games than Koekkoek, yet their +/- isn't like Koekkoek's. I'm not familiar with the Petes, Koekkoek might lead their team in TOI, but shouldn't having that much of a +/- differential compared to your team say something about the defense when he's on the ice?
Playing an average of 30 minutes a game against the top pairs of every team will put a hurt on your +/-. The fact he can play 30 minutes a game as a top pairing Defenseman means good things. He plays a physical game, can eat up a lot of minutes and has a good shot, he is exactly what we (Bolts) need in a defensive prospect. We have Barberio, Aulie, Gudas, Korobov, Sergeev, and Nesterov as our D prospects. In comparison he fits what we need nicely.

It is also nice to see him at least get some credit on HF too.

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Old
12-21-2012, 07:01 PM
  #46
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Koekkoek being underrated IMO

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Old
12-21-2012, 07:38 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by x74Pacioretty74x View Post
Koekkoek being underrated IMO
I dont think so, he an average prospect and should have never gone top 10. I dont usually make claims like that but it was foulish to pick him over the guys who were left.

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Old
12-21-2012, 08:08 PM
  #48
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I dont think so, he an average prospect and should have never gone top 10. I dont usually make claims like that but it was foulish to pick him over the guys who were left.
a bit early to say this.

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Old
12-21-2012, 08:22 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by bigbadbruins7 View Post
this is the order i have in mind. still cant believe pouliot went so high in the draft last year. its also a wonder a Pens didnt try to trade down and get him. im sure someone would have coughed up their 1st and a second
Agreed. He's simply not good enough for his draft position. Especially given the people still on the board

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Old
12-21-2012, 08:24 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
I dont think so, he an average prospect and should have never gone top 10. I dont usually make claims like that but it was foulish to pick him over the guys who were left.
you can say the same thing about Pouliot

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