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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

No Salary Cap or Guaranteed Contracts

View Poll Results: If it ended the lockout today, would you get rid of the cap and guaranteed contracts?
Yes 35 45.45%
No 42 54.55%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-21-2012, 03:49 PM
  #1
Fred Brathwaite
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No Salary Cap or Guaranteed Contracts

The thread about Fehr fighting to repeal the cap thread has me wondering... how many fans would support getting rid of both of the salary cap and guaranteed contracts if it ended the lockout today. I know it will never happen (nor do I want it to happen) but if both parties agreed to get rid of the salary cap as well as guaranteed contracts to end the lockout today, would you support it?

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Old
12-21-2012, 03:53 PM
  #2
Capsized
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It will never happen but it is the only way I would ever support the NHL with my money again.

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Old
12-21-2012, 04:46 PM
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Benny FTW
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I wont watch the NHL if it has no cap. I dont see whats fun about watching a team spend 80mil and there opponent spend 30mil. The current NHL is about how good your GM is, with trades, drafting, etc. Without the cap it becomes who can spend more money. Thats not hockey.

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12-21-2012, 05:05 PM
  #4
moosehead81
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You can get rid of the cap- contracts would likely be individually negotiated to include some form of monetary gain should a player get cut mid-season. No cap, given the cut-throat state of the current owners, little or no competitiveness except for the top 6 money earners followed by contraction/relocation down to no more thyan 24 teams.

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Old
12-21-2012, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
I wont watch the NHL if it has no cap. I dont see whats fun about watching a team spend 80mil and there opponent spend 30mil. The current NHL is about how good your GM is, with trades, drafting, etc. Without the cap it becomes who can spend more money. Thats not hockey.
LOLWUT?

So you didn't watch hockey before '05?

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Old
12-21-2012, 05:38 PM
  #6
Do Make Say Think
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The League as a whole has made great strides since the implementation of the cap and the players, on average, have reaped the benefits.

The only people looking to get rid of the cap and guaranteed contracts would be doing so on ideological grounds rather than simple numbers.

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Old
12-21-2012, 06:11 PM
  #7
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It would be pointless for the Kings to be in the league without a cap. It just adds to the pointlessness of it without guaranteed contracts. That goes for any team too far west or south.

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Old
12-21-2012, 06:20 PM
  #8
Benny FTW
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Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
LOLWUT?

So you didn't watch hockey before '05?
I did but i was also like 12 so I didn't exactly understand anything other than what i watched.

Looking back to pre-2005 it was clearly a lesser league and lesser hockey. I don't see whats great about a league where its the payroll that determines the winner.

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12-21-2012, 06:32 PM
  #9
Stephen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
I did but i was also like 12 so I didn't exactly understand anything other than what i watched.

Looking back to pre-2005 it was clearly a lesser league and lesser hockey. I don't see whats great about a league where its the payroll that determines the winner.
Wait, so if there was no cap, suddenly a team like the Phoenix Coyotes can't make good personnel decisions anymore?

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Old
12-21-2012, 06:33 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
I did but i was also like 12 so I didn't exactly understand anything other than what i watched.

Looking back to pre-2005 it was clearly a lesser league and lesser hockey. I don't see whats great about a league where its the payroll that determines the winner.
I agree with you completely. Just thought the 'it's not hockey' line was a bit out there.

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Old
12-21-2012, 06:34 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
The League as a whole has made great strides since the implementation of the cap and the players, on average, have reaped the benefits.

The only people looking to get rid of the cap and guaranteed contracts would be doing so on ideological grounds rather than simple numbers.
It's basically the nuclear option.

As a whole, the league benefits from having a cap, with the players getting less of the bigger pie.

You could make the case that in the short term, the players stand to gain by substantially increasing their share while the impact on revenue will take longer to take effect.

That being said, the average current NHLer likely stands to gain from no salary cap.

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Old
12-21-2012, 06:36 PM
  #12
Do Make Say Think
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
It's basically the nuclear option.

As a whole, the league benefits from having a cap, with the players getting less of the bigger pie.

You could make the case that in the short term, the players stand to gain by substantially increasing their share while the impact on revenue will take longer to take effect.

That being said, the average current NHLer likely stands to gain from no salary cap.
The way things are going no salary cap could jeopardize certain teams so I'd argue it's just as likely that a bunch of players could be out of a job

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12-21-2012, 06:39 PM
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seanlinden
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The way things are going no salary cap could jeopardize certain teams so I'd argue it's just as likely that a bunch of players could be out of a job
Yeah... but that would likely take a couple of years to happen.

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12-21-2012, 06:42 PM
  #14
Benny FTW
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Wait, so if there was no cap, suddenly a team like the Phoenix Coyotes can't make good personnel decisions anymore?
Thats not what i said.

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Old
12-21-2012, 06:49 PM
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Frenchy
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If it is true that the NHLPA is ready to not play this year and next year. Then the NHL should seek to abolish the guarantee contracts in their new CBA. It's true, if you're not gonna play for two whole years, you might as well go for the homerun.

As for the cap , you absolutely need it for the small NHL markets to survive .

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12-21-2012, 07:05 PM
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sunnyvale420
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Originally Posted by Frenchy View Post
If it is true that the NHLPA is ready to not play this year and next year. Then the NHL should seek to abolish the guarantee contracts in their new CBA. It's true, if you're not gonna play for two whole years, you might as well go for the homerun.

As for the cap , you absolutely need it for the small NHL markets to survive .
False, the salary cap with the salary floor makes the smaller market teams spend more than they can. This is double whammied by 'the market' where for ex a 3rd liner leaves his old team and 2M for a team thats 20M under the floor and offers him a 3M contract. Or the agents use the other teams offer to strongarm teams into retaining their players for near 'market' prices. Either way another agent sees what agent x got player y and without looking into why that specific player got that specific contract, agent u uses player y's contract to somehow justify his player v's contract. And over and over the cycle goes.

Small market teams would arguably be better with no salary cap/floor. They would have real internal budgets and if they have a disadvantaged team due to low payroll, high draft picks! Low entry contracts! Hmm sounds like the NHL we used to know before 05

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12-21-2012, 07:43 PM
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Hypothetically speaking though, what would a no cap/no guaranteed contracts NHL look like? on one hand owners could make ridiculous deals and the players would be sure to cash in, but the idea has me thinking, would a guy like Scott Gomez be inclined to try a little harder knowing his 8 million salary could be cut at any moment?

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12-21-2012, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnyvale420 View Post
False, the salary cap with the salary floor makes the smaller market teams spend more than they can. This is double whammied by 'the market' where for ex a 3rd liner leaves his old team and 2M for a team thats 20M under the floor and offers him a 3M contract. Or the agents use the other teams offer to strongarm teams into retaining their players for near 'market' prices. Either way another agent sees what agent x got player y and without looking into why that specific player got that specific contract, agent u uses player y's contract to somehow justify his player v's contract. And over and over the cycle goes.

Small market teams would arguably be better with no salary cap/floor. They would have real internal budgets and if they have a disadvantaged team due to low payroll, high draft picks! Low entry contracts! Hmm sounds like the NHL we used to know before 05
Nope , the small markets needs the cap or you will end up , just like in Baseball , with a hand full of teams always on top , full of the best players and the rest of the league will be making players devlopment for those big markets.

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12-21-2012, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by sunnyvale420 View Post

Small market teams would arguably be better with no salary cap/floor. They would have real internal budgets and if they have a disadvantaged team due to low payroll, high draft picks! Low entry contracts! Hmm sounds like the NHL we used to know before 05

Precisely.

You don't start a Christmas tree farm and expect to get customers next month. You plant your saplings, and when they become beautiful trees you give them away to people who can afford them and deserve to enjoy them given their large foyers.

On the bright side, you always get the best saplings to enjoy while they're growing...you just don't get to keep them when they're at their best.

You and your team of workers are essentially working a farm, but by gosh you're the best darned farm team for miles around. And think about all the joy you're bringing to people who receive your products? Nobody ever thinks of them.

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12-21-2012, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
LOLWUT?

So you didn't watch hockey before '05?
Small market hockey had no chance before '05. With the drop of UFA age from 31 to 27 (or 7 years of NHL play) it would be even worse now, as the star players they groomed would be snapped up while still actually prime players rather than just about to be over the hill ridiculously overpaid Rangers.

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12-21-2012, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Small market hockey had no chance before '05. With the drop of UFA age from 31 to 27 (or 7 years of NHL play) it would be even worse now, as the star players they groomed would be snapped up while still actually prime players rather than just about to be over the hill ridiculously overpaid Rangers.
There were exceptions however, like Calgary in 2004, Carolina in 2002 and Buffalo in '99. Regardless of financial resources, a team still needs a high quality scouting and development department to build a team, as opposed to a collection of players, like the Rangers you reference in your post.

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12-21-2012, 08:13 PM
  #22
sunnyvale420
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Originally Posted by ForsbergForever View Post
Hypothetically speaking though, what would a no cap/no guaranteed contracts NHL look like? on one hand owners could make ridiculous deals and the players would be sure to cash in, but the idea has me thinking, would a guy like Scott Gomez be inclined to try a little harder knowing his 8 million salary could be cut at any moment?
4th liners/ahl tweeners would get around 100k per year. Lots of one year contracts or big signing bonuses. Stars getting 10m per year. Less non NA players since less job security and possibly money. Might as well get rid of the draft as well, no use keeping modern slavery eh.

So not all good. Doesnt seem like theres any perfect idea on how to fix it.

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12-21-2012, 11:46 PM
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sunnyvale420
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Precisely.

You don't start a Christmas tree farm and expect to get customers next month. You plant your saplings, and when they become beautiful trees you give them away to people who can afford them and deserve to enjoy them given their large foyers.

On the bright side, you always get the best saplings to enjoy while they're growing...you just don't get to keep them when they're at their best.

You and your team of workers are essentially working a farm, but by gosh you're the best darned farm team for miles around. And think about all the joy you're bringing to people who receive your products? Nobody ever thinks of them.
Nicely done.

Lots arent given away though, offer sheets and rfa's who dont fit on a cap or money strapped team get traded and compensated. Maybe the nhl can increase the cost of 'poaching' with stricter draft picks or even better...money since thats why these teams most likely werent able to retain their rfa.

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Old
12-23-2012, 10:05 AM
  #24
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I would rather not have hockey than remove the salary cap. And I'm a Rangers fan. It would be like the MLB. Uber unfair, a joke really.

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12-23-2012, 10:33 AM
  #25
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While I voted no, I would still watch hockey if this happened, obviously. But I don't want it to.

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