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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

NJ Governor Christie puts lockout blame on NHL leadership

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Old
12-22-2012, 01:37 AM
  #26
DuklaNation
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
There are no players constant for all three lockouts, and relatively few have seen more than one lockout in span of their career.

Jacobs has been instrumental in all three lockouts. Bettman has been commissioner.

What does Christie need to back up his claim? He's basically calling a duck a duck.

I have no idea why some fans are protective of the people who are on the verge of cancelling a season twice in the last 8 years. Even ONE cancellation is a huge black mark - no other major league sport has done that.
If only getting an agreement with the NHLPA was like dealing with overpaid teachers?

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Old
12-22-2012, 07:55 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by BradD View Post
It's funny though, I was watching the fiscal cliff and both sides seemed JUST like the NHL lockout. It's quite sad.

I'm not promoting any agenda here but if you have a guy who is notoriously hated by the public in politics and he comments on something NHL related, it's worth being brought up at least a brief WHY he is disliked.

All I can say is screw New Jersey. They didn't show up when their team sucked just years ago and suddenly they get hot. Same with places like Pittsburgh when they were bad.

My opinion is that they should work on government issues and not hockey. Both sides are dysfunctional as it is.
You're kidding, right? The Rock was sold out for numerous games during the 2010-11 season when they were missed the playoffs.

Christie is being a massive hypocrite. He completely dictated his negotiations with public workers forcing changes through legislation as opposed to at the bargaining table...yet he's upset the NHL is using the same tactic.

This affects him because its a lot of tax revenue NOT being generated and its hurting many of his citizens that have no direct affiliation with the Devils or the NHL.

1) (Non-Devils/NHL) Workers at the Prudential Center
2) Parking
3) Local small businesses/restaurants
4) NJ Transit - this works for the Rangers too since many of their fans in NJ take the train to get to MSG.

That's the point I agree with him but I find it funny he's upset at other people bullying at the bargaining table.


Last edited by njdevsfn95: 12-22-2012 at 08:01 AM.
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Old
12-22-2012, 08:39 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Gov. Christie speaks a truth that's plainly obvious to anyone who isn't a player hater.

Regardless of your opinion of Fehr, Bettman's leadership record is inexcusable.
Yeah. All time highs in revenue, attendance and franchise value. It's really inexcusable.

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12-22-2012, 09:12 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
The players opted out of sham negotiations. Cause that's all there was coming from the league until about a month ago.
There were no negotiations at all, sham or otherwise, until after Sept 15.


Last edited by MoreOrr: 12-22-2012 at 09:22 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old
12-22-2012, 09:14 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I'm so tired of this line. But whatever.

Explain to me why the NHL strike cost us ZERO games. And each lockout has cost us TONS of games.
As long as you're in support of the players winning the negotiations, then there's really nothing for me to explain, now is there.

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12-22-2012, 09:20 AM
  #31
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I like Chris Christie and I'm a Democrat. Doesn't hurt that Christie is also a Ranger fan. Christie is right. Its all on Gary. 3 times. Not once. Not twice. Three times. I love the people who say the NHL can hold out a year or two to get the deal they want. They don't think about the damage these stupid labor battles do to the game. These people don't love the game. The game belongs on the ice. Not iced. Christie is a big sports fan. I have heard him on with Boomer Essiason and Craig Carton talking sports. He knows his stuff.

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Old
12-22-2012, 09:21 AM
  #32
Melrose Munch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
The polls tell a different story. At least in Canada (not aware of any US polling).

Most people see this as Bettman's lockout.
On here. Of course outside the owners are losing.

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12-22-2012, 09:28 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
On here. Of course outside the owners are losing.
I notice that too. In here, we seem to have a lot of people that worship industrialists and are willing to screw themselves so that the top 1% make more and more money.

In reality, the owners are losing the publicity battle with the average joe. Most people I know are blaming the owners and Bettman for the lockout and rightfully so. They have seen it 3 times in less than 20 years. The only constant seems to be Bettman and Jacobs.

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Old
12-22-2012, 10:23 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
I notice that too. In here, we seem to have a lot of people that worship industrialists and are willing to screw themselves so that the top 1% make more and more money.

In reality, the owners are losing the publicity battle with the average joe. Most people I know are blaming the owners and Bettman for the lockout and rightfully so. They have seen it 3 times in less than 20 years. The only constant seems to be Bettman and Jacobs.
It looks bad especially when a) some of the owners just can not manage money and b) many fans hate that some teams even exist to begin with.

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Old
12-22-2012, 10:42 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
I notice that too. In here, we seem to have a lot of people that worship industrialists and are willing to screw themselves so that the top 1% make more and more money.

In reality, the owners are losing the publicity battle with the average joe. Most people I know are blaming the owners and Bettman for the lockout and rightfully so. They have seen it 3 times in less than 20 years. The only constant seems to be Bettman and Jacobs.
I'd almost certainly hate them outside of hockey, and I do hate the ones who supposedly dominate League in most matters. But ultimately you're saying that the likes of Bettman and Jacobs control 28 other billionaires like puppets.

These "industrialists" made their fortunes outside of hockey, and for the most part they still make their fortunes there. The NHL is not a League where most owners rake in big $s, though certainly being part of the League may help them in other ways financially. But wouldn't they be missed if all of them decided that they didn't want to promote hockey and simple maintain their "industrialist" lives outside of this sport.

The simple fact still remains, that without accepting financial losses, many or even the majority of these franchises can't support the kind of salaries that 1/5 or 1/6 of the League can pay out. And industrialists or more capitalists for that matter are not in the habit of sharing their gains; so Revenue Sharing, though a necessary element and perhaps good for the League, can't be expected to bandaid over the huge economic disparities that exist in the League. I want a 28 or 30 team NHL, and paying the players the salaries they're demanding, with the contract freedoms they're demanding, cannot be sustained by a 30-team hockey league. Hockey simply doesn't have that strong and widespread a fanbase to sustain that. And I don't see why many of you here can't understand that, or you simply don't care because Your team is one of those few that won't be at risk.

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Old
12-22-2012, 10:49 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duklanation View Post
there are plenty of constant variables. how many players are constant? more owners as well. Let alone the issues. Point is, christie could back up his claim by supporting it whether i would agree with his reasoning or not. Just making an open claim like that doesnt hold water.
you are right this lockout is 100% because of teemu selanne!!

Yeah i said it: T-E-E-M-U S-E-L-A-N-N-E is the sole reason why there's a lockout at this present time !!

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Old
12-22-2012, 10:50 AM
  #37
Colin226
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Speaking of Hockey in Newark - they just opened the Ironbound Rec Center complete with a new hockey rink

http://newarknj.patch.com/articles/c...ollar-facelift

Great for the city and the Hockey in Newark program, which has been getting better each year.. Also nice to see the Devils out supporting this

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Old
12-22-2012, 10:55 AM
  #38
LadyStanley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
There are no players constant for all three lockouts, and relatively few have seen more than one lockout in span of their career.
Nope.

There are a handful (literally less than 5) that have been playing in NHL for all three lockouts. (Selanne, Broduer, Jagr come to mind)

And a few hundred have been in the last two.

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Old
12-22-2012, 02:26 PM
  #39
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I am always amazed at how many supposed hockey fans want the NHL to operate at a big disadvantage when compared to the NBA and NFL. People do not seem to understand these leagues compete for owners and investors.

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12-22-2012, 02:55 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
As long as you're in support of the players winning the negotiations, then there's really nothing for me to explain, now is there.
Depends on what's more important to you. Watching hockey games? Or the CBA negotiations.

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12-22-2012, 03:05 PM
  #41
Ernie
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Originally Posted by Orrthebest View Post
I am always amazed at how many supposed hockey fans want the NHL to operate at a big disadvantage when compared to the NBA and NFL. People do not seem to understand these leagues compete for owners and investors.
You know what would make the NHL competitive for investors? Not having franchise values average $300m. The financing cost for a purchase that large is going to be almost $20m / year.

That's why so many franchises are struggling - their value is so high that owners have to take a lot of debt on the purchase.

Taking more money from the players doesn't fix anything. Franchise values just rise again, meaning any new owner needs all that much more money. If franchise values were more reflective of actual revenue - say an average of $100m or so - then we wouldn't have such problems.

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12-22-2012, 03:16 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Depends on what's more important to you. Watching hockey games? Or the CBA negotiations.
For us that's easy to determine... give us the hockey. We're not one of the many owners trying to avoid losses every Season, while trying to stay competitive and having to spend $ for salaries that can't be afforded. But hey, that's their problem, right? Just let us have our hockey!

So I guess then that you don't really care which side gets the upper hand, or the strangle hold in the negotiations, as long as you have your hockey entertainment undisturbed.

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12-22-2012, 03:27 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
For us that's easy to determine... give us the hockey. We're not one of the many owners trying to avoid losses every Season, while trying to stay competitive and having to spend $ for salaries that can't be afforded. But hey, that's their problem, right? Just let us have our hockey!

So I guess then that you don't really care which side gets the upper hand, or the strangle hold in the negotiations, as long as you have your hockey entertainment undisturbed.
Do you accept for the possibility that the owners are doing better financially than they have represented themselves to you and the rest of us?

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12-22-2012, 03:30 PM
  #44
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Do you accept for the possibility that the owners are doing better financially than they have represented themselves to you and the rest of us?
Yes, I accept that it's possible, anything is possible. Do you have evidence or proof that that is the case? If not, then what do we have to go on in order to base an opinion?

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12-22-2012, 03:51 PM
  #45
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Not sure I see what's so controversial about Christie's statement. Unhealthy labour relations reflect poorly on management? No ****.

Regardless of who you side with in this, that's pretty much common sense.

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Old
12-22-2012, 04:04 PM
  #46
Orrthebest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
You know what would make the NHL competitive for investors? Not having franchise values average $300m. The financing cost for a purchase that large is going to be almost $20m / year.

That's why so many franchises are struggling - their value is so high that owners have to take a lot of debt on the purchase.

Taking more money from the players doesn't fix anything. Franchise values just rise again, meaning any new owner needs all that much more money. If franchise values were more reflective of actual revenue - say an average of $100m or so - then we wouldn't have such problems.


So you think the best way for the NHL to fix its business is to bring in worse businessmen?

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Old
12-22-2012, 04:36 PM
  #47
Ernie
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Originally Posted by Orrthebest View Post
So you think the best way for the NHL to fix its business is to bring in worse businessmen?
What? How do you possibly distill that from what I said?

Franchise values are a source of instability. It's that simple. The fact that an owner has to shell out hundreds of millions for a franchise means that you either have to have a pool of VERY wealthy buyers, or you have to rely on some shaky finances and potential bankruptcies when things take a turn for the worse. Then you have owners clamouring for a guaranteed return on investment (which they overpaid for), which means they take more from the players, which leads to lockouts, etc.

Take the Coyotes. If the franchise was being sold for a much more reasonable $50m instead, the city wouldn't have to be extorted, at least not to the degree that it is.

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Old
12-22-2012, 05:16 PM
  #48
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If Governor Christie sides with the union you know you got a problem.

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12-22-2012, 05:43 PM
  #49
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Very few people are cut out to be leaders.

That is why so many people on HF fail to realize that the persistently terrible labor-management relationship in the NHL is a failing of leadership.

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12-22-2012, 06:04 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orrthebest View Post
So you think the best way for the NHL to fix its business is to bring in worse businessmen?
I'm not sure the players are great at balancing their own books either, but how many of them have pulled off the normal rich guy equivalent of buying "a hockey team that plays in the desert" or "Wade Redden?"

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