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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

NJ Governor Christie puts lockout blame on NHL leadership

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Old
12-23-2012, 06:09 AM
  #51
Confucius
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Originally Posted by limite View Post
Yeah. All time highs in revenue, attendance and franchise value. It's really inexcusable.
So what are the owners complaining about? Drop the freakin puck since Bettman has them doing so wonderfully and all is good.

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12-23-2012, 06:34 AM
  #52
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Christie is the Republican governor of one of the most Democratic states in the U.S. Christie is an ex-U.S. Attorney who cracked down on Republican corruption. He is an honest and politically moderate guy. His schtick is all Jersey- rough common sense. His comments here are natural for him.

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12-23-2012, 07:07 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
Very few people are cut out to be leaders.

That is why so many people on HF fail to realize that the persistently terrible labor-management relationship in the NHL is a failing of leadership.
A failure of whose leadership? There's leadership in the NHLPA that has a hand in why these negotiations were not properly settled during the reasonable window to settle these things prior to ever needing to worry about a lockout. Every best case scenario involved settling their differences, or at least trying to, before a single game was lost. You have to concede that at least.

Instead, there was infighting within the NHLPA and a belligerent faction won control despite the NHLPA knowing *point blank* that the NHL was going to be reluctant, at very best, to work with their version of NHLPA leadership. These are KNOWN AND CONFIRMED FACTS. Failing to reconcile them is an exercise in denial.

I mean if you want to pretend that Bettman can dictate an end to the lockout, that's fine. But it's smarter to admit that the NHLPA is fighting for things too, they have leadership with a direction in mind that is different from the BOG's, and their leadership has also chosen a path that led to this lockout. At least admit that much.

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12-23-2012, 07:29 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
A failure of whose leadership? There's leadership in the NHLPA that has a hand in why these negotiations were not properly settled during the reasonable window to settle these things prior to ever needing to worry about a lockout. Every best case scenario involved settling their differences, or at least trying to, before a single game was lost. You have to concede that at least.

Instead, there was infighting within the NHLPA and a belligerent faction won control despite the NHLPA knowing *point blank* that the NHL was going to be reluctant, at very best, to work with their version of NHLPA leadership. These are KNOWN AND CONFIRMED FACTS. Failing to reconcile them is an exercise in denial.

I mean if you want to pretend that Bettman can dictate an end to the lockout, that's fine. But it's smarter to admit that the NHLPA is fighting for things too, they have leadership with a direction in mind that is different from the BOG's, and their leadership has also chosen a path that led to this lockout. At least admit that much.
It would have not gone that far if Bettman knew how to negotiate during the previous 2 lockouts.

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12-23-2012, 07:47 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
Very few people are cut out to be leaders.

That is why so many people on HF fail to realize that the persistently terrible labor-management relationship in the NHL is a failing of leadership.
didnt the NHLPA fire Paul Kelley because he had a good relationship with Bettman/Daly/NHL?

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12-23-2012, 08:00 AM
  #56
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It is as unsurprising as it is ridiculous to see how quickly the team owners are willing to abandon their highly coveted free-market principles as long soon as the scarce commodity (in this instance skilled players) is out of their hands. Owners of teams that make less money should invest less money in their teams, as simple as that. In the end, hockey is probably just too small a sport worldwide to support a league like the NHL in it's current form.

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12-23-2012, 08:01 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by njdevsfn95 View Post
didnt the NHLPA fire Paul Kelley because he had a good relationship with Bettman/Daly/NHL?
Not according to these facts:

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/D...g-Minutes.aspx

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Old
12-23-2012, 08:42 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
A failure of whose leadership? There's leadership in the NHLPA that has a hand in why these negotiations were not properly settled during the reasonable window to settle these things prior to ever needing to worry about a lockout. Every best case scenario involved settling their differences, or at least trying to, before a single game was lost. You have to concede that at least.

Instead, there was infighting within the NHLPA and a belligerent faction won control despite the NHLPA knowing *point blank* that the NHL was going to be reluctant, at very best, to work with their version of NHLPA leadership. These are KNOWN AND CONFIRMED FACTS. Failing to reconcile them is an exercise in denial.

I mean if you want to pretend that Bettman can dictate an end to the lockout, that's fine. But it's smarter to admit that the NHLPA is fighting for things too, they have leadership with a direction in mind that is different from the BOG's, and their leadership has also chosen a path that led to this lockout. At least admit that much.

Well, the NHLPA has had Bob Goodenow and Donald Fehr as their leaders during the last three lockouts. Both have had differrent styles.

Bettman is a representative of the NHL ownership group, the group that has decided to enact three lockouts (1994, 2004, 2012)

The common denominator? Bettman and a core ownership group.

The NHLPA have been clear they don't want to lose the contracts they have already signed. They agreed to the 50/50 split.

Ownership has come in wanting to change every major issue under the old CBA.

In the end it's the "make whole", term of contract and salary variance issues that is holding this back.



So basically, I place 95% of the blame on Bettman and his core 7 owners (the 8th being Bettman as the NHL owns a team). It is this group that is holding 22 owners hostage to whatever they want.....so blame a union rep or blame a group that decided to lock out it's employees....blame falls on the employer.

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12-23-2012, 11:26 AM
  #59
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I'll point out the diffrence between Christie & say Bettman. Christie is in governement where you can run up massive debt, Bettman isnt. He represents the owners and many of them cannot run up massive debt. Christie represents the taxpayers yet can still run up massive debt. Ever wonder why you never see an actuary debate anyone on the political shows? It would be a one-sided mess.

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12-23-2012, 11:27 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
If Christie had to shut down a state department every year at budget time because he couldn't deal with the state house or senate... then that would reflect poorly on Christie.

When you're the executive -- the buck stops with you.

If you don't like it, go be a corporate vice president somewhere.
I wonder, could this have something to do with Christie's position?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...over-gambling/

Quote:
Governor Chris Christie can now accuse the other 30 NFL teams of hating New Jersey.

Along with every other pro sports league. And Rutgers.

The NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, and NCAA have filed suit against New Jersey in response to a plan to launch betting on pro and college games.

The lawsuit, filed in federal court in Trenton, New Jersey, relies on the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act.
Christie is an interesting character. He literally cried on National TV because Unions wouldn't unilaterally give him the concessions he wanted. He has accused the Jets and Giants of being ant-New Jersey.

He is an old school union-buster but his state is involved in litigation by pro sports leagues.


Last edited by TaketheCannoli: 12-23-2012 at 11:39 AM.
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Old
12-23-2012, 12:17 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by CJV123 View Post
These "facts: are the thoroughly debunked smears that Walsh keeps putting on his twitter as it is the only article that he can find to use as his only answer to questions about this disgraceful act.

The following article goes into considerable detail about what went down and why. it shows the dirty tricks and back stabbing. and how Ted Lindsay stood with Kelly
and is well wirth reading in its entirety:

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/busi...on-**********/

Kelly had been a marked man from Day 1 thanks to his own ombudsman, former player Eric Lindros, and general counsel Ian Penny, a survivor of several NHLPA purges. But he lost the undecideds when his 30-man executive board — whipped into a frenzy by advisers including Hargrove and Halifax labour lawyer Ron Pink — rubber-stamped his demise at 3:30 a.m. on Aug. 31 in Chicago without ever consulting the general membership.
.................................................. ..

The plan owed much of its success to stealth and subterfuge — virtually none of the 700-plus members outside the executive board knew about Kelly’s imminent ousting. The disaffected parties hid behind anonymous letters, whispering and sniping from the cover of darkness

.................................................. .....
The real cause of his dismissal was likely far more straightforward. As a moderate who believed in being cordial with his opposites at the league, Kelly was anathema to the hardliners who’d taken the NHLPA into its disastrous lockout in 2004–05.
.................................................. .............................

Finally, the new constitution introduced an advisory board featuring labour lawyer Ron Pink (who, unbeknownst to players, had been passed over for Kelly’s job), Hargrove and several former players closely aligned with Lindros.

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12-23-2012, 12:18 PM
  #62
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so blame a union rep or blame a group that decided to lock out it's employees....blame falls on the employer.
Hardly. Whenever you go into a season without a CBA the lockout is the next obvious step. Don Fehr established that when he went nuclear in 1994, and no league will ever again put itself in position to risk a fiasco like that. The fallout of that kind of strike is always worse than the outcome of a lockout, however bad the lockout may be.

The lockout, in other words, is a defensive tactic, against union abuses that can occur when playing without a CBA and since Fehr demonstrated exactly what the worst case scenario is, no league will ever fail to lock out the players until a CBA is signed and sealed again.

So the real problem goes back to the lack of a CBA, and the CBA is a mutual responsibility between the owners and the union. The ball is not in Bettman's court for him to take the blame for what is happening, and Governor Christie ought to know that.

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12-23-2012, 12:42 PM
  #63
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Oh, he's probably just some left-wing pro-union socialist in bed with the wicked Canadian media. Ignore him. He holds the wrong opinion and can't have his head screwed on right.

Now, if he really understood the facts . . .


Well played.

He is right though, the NHL has terrible fan and player relationships. There is no arguing that, but someone here will.

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12-23-2012, 12:43 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by DuklaNation View Post
I'll point out the diffrence between Christie & say Bettman. Christie is in governement where you can run up massive debt, Bettman isnt. He represents the owners and many of them cannot run up massive debt. Christie represents the taxpayers yet can still run up massive debt. Ever wonder why you never see an actuary debate anyone on the political shows? It would be a one-sided mess.
Every state has a balanced budget.

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12-23-2012, 12:46 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Seedling View Post


Well played.

He is right though, the NHL has terrible fan and player relationships. There is no arguing that, but someone here will.
OK, I'll bite: what do fan and player relationships have to do with the CBA?? If you meant Ownership-Player Association relationship, fine. But who's fault s that? How may different PA leaders have there been in the past 20 years? It's not easy maintaining relationships when the leadership is constantly changing.

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Old
12-23-2012, 12:49 PM
  #66
DuklaNation
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Every state has a balanced budget.
Governments use cash basis. Explain the debt. Explain the massive legacy liabilities. No offense but I could tear apart any report any state gave you within 5 minutes.

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