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Jochen Hecht - 1 year, $1 million cap hit

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Old
01-14-2013, 06:01 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by BUCKSHOT View Post
it is an even better move at the price, IMO
agreed, I don't care how anyone tries to spin it this was a solid move IMO..

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01-14-2013, 06:15 PM
  #227
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$1m cap hit? Absolutely.

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01-14-2013, 07:01 PM
  #228
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Yeah. At 1 million, zero qualms.

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02-15-2013, 09:24 AM
  #229
Layne Staley
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So almost a month after being signed how is everyone's opinions on Jochen now?It is not even arguable, he has been plain bad all year.Heres his stat line


14 games, 0 goals, 3 assists, 3 points, -1 , 16:04/game

Pretty putrid stats to go with putrid play. Hecht is terrible, a waste of a roster spot. I find it hilarious he gets 16 minutes a game yet has 3 points. Give Grigorenko the 16 minutes a game instead of this loser.

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02-15-2013, 09:31 AM
  #230
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Thanks for bring up this tread again and reminding me of what we did. Atleast it was not an extension when i first glanced at the tread i thought i was for one second.

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02-15-2013, 09:36 AM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
So almost a month after being signed how is everyone's opinions on Jochen now?It is not even arguable, he has been plain bad all year.Heres his stat line


14 games, 0 goals, 3 assists, 3 points, -1 , 16:04/game

Pretty putrid stats to go with putrid play. Hecht is terrible, a waste of a roster spot. I find it hilarious he gets 16 minutes a game yet has 3 points. Give Grigorenko the 16 minutes a game instead of this loser.
Well, we don't give up many goals when he's on the ice, which is a marked contrast to most of this forward corps. I understand you're a "points" guy, Freddie, but there's something to be said for goal prevention, too--especially with this crew of one-way, supposedly offensive players.

Grigorenko should be in the Q, not getting 16 minutes of ice in the NHL.

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Old
02-15-2013, 09:48 AM
  #232
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My two biggest concerns are:
1. His unusually lazy play at times
2. That Lindy insists on still using him like he's not a $1M 4th-line who is at the end of his career

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Old
02-15-2013, 09:54 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Well, we don't give up many goals when he's on the ice, which is a marked contrast to most of this forward corps. I understand you're a "points" guy, Freddie, but there's something to be said for goal prevention, too--especially with this crew of one-way, supposedly offensive players.

Grigorenko should be in the Q, not getting 16 minutes of ice in the NHL.
Agreed would you burn the year and let him go back to the Q.
My thinking is pagula could care less about the cheap year right now and can possibly sign him long term 4 to maybe 5 years once he turns 21 and would be locked up and would end up being a RFA after that second contract or when hes 21 offer him an 8 to 9 year deal i no its far fetched but we never seen pagula throw money at his top prospect except maybe myers and hes locked up for 7

Bottom line i really think we should send him back to the Q asap but if we dont its not that big of a deal.

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Old
02-15-2013, 09:57 AM
  #234
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I'm still okay with the signing, as long as there was no better option:
-trade?
-someone in the organization?
I would have to think that someone like Porter or even Flynn would have more goals than Hecht and Stafford combined if they had the same opportunity (ice time) in the NHL this year. Would they be as good defensively? Kill penalties like Hecht?

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02-15-2013, 10:04 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Jacob582 View Post
I'm still okay with the signing, as long as there was no better option:
-trade?
-someone in the organization?
I would have to think that someone like Porter or even Flynn would have more goals than Hecht and Stafford combined if they had the same opportunity (ice time) in the NHL this year. Would they be as good defensively? Kill penalties like Hecht?
We're a point away from the basement of the league. Somehow I doubt Hecht's penalty killing and defense is keeping us afloat, so who cares who he would've been replaced with.

Didn't want him over the summer, didn't want him when he was signed, don't want him now.

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02-15-2013, 10:08 AM
  #236
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Still 100% fine with this deal. Hecht is almost last on the list when it comes to the Sabres' issues. It's insignificant.

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02-15-2013, 10:09 AM
  #237
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He's still a very solid defensive player and can fill that role on the 3rd line. I don't expect too much out of Jochen at this point. The only thing I do expect is that he doesn't hurt the team and I don't think he has. It's frustrating when he plays 16-20 minutes a game because he can't really generate offense at this point. I haven't really looked into it, but I'm going to assume the games where he has a lot of ice time are the games where the Sabres have taken a ton of penalties.

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02-15-2013, 10:12 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Well, we don't give up many goals when he's on the ice, which is a marked contrast to most of this forward corps. I understand you're a "points" guy, Freddie, but there's something to be said for goal prevention, too--especially with this crew of one-way, supposedly offensive players.

Grigorenko should be in the Q, not getting 16 minutes of ice in the NHL.
LOL. Only on the Sabres board is sabremetrics/Corsi #s matter more then actually scoring goals.

If you get 16 minutes a game and have 0 goals 14 games into the season that's a joke. Hecht isn't that good defensively either.Sure, he "prevents" goals, too bad he can't even get out of his own defensive zone so for most of the time the puck is usually in our end or the neutral zone He can't cycle, make a crisp pass or even shoot the puck on net. He deserved to be a 4th liner getting 9-10 minutes a game at most, not 16.

Out of the 23 players who have played a game for us this year, 11 still haven't scored a goal. Top line =22 goals. Rest of team = 16 goals. Yeah, our offense is a one line pony. Maybe that's why I value goals more then advanced stats because last time I checked the National Hockey League counted goals as the barometer to win the games, not who has the highest QoC or Corsi #.

And Maybe Grigorenko should be in juniors but he's not so that is absolutely a moot point.And if he's up here and we are going to miss the playoffs anyway then why is Hecht getting 5+ more minutes a game then him? Oh that's right because Broken is Lindys favorite "toy" that he uses far too much. Hecht is done as a NHL player, turns 36 later this year and has the worst offensive talents in our top 9. Guys who are good in their own end but absolutely pathetic in the offensive zone are a dime a dozen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogilny 89 View Post
Still 100% fine with this deal. Hecht is almost last on the list when it comes to the Sabres' issues. It's insignificant.
The only thing Hecht is almost last on is the goal leaders on this team A guy on the ice for 225 minutes this season without a goal is a joke. By now he should have atleast had a fluke goal. And no, his problems aren't insignificant, he's getting prime minutes and doing NOTHING with them. Hecht is the first guy I would send packing at the deadline, but I guarantee no one would even want him. He isn't good enough to play for a cup contender or hell, even a playoff team.


Last edited by Layne Staley: 02-15-2013 at 10:18 AM.
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Old
02-15-2013, 10:43 AM
  #239
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No problems with it. We knew we weren't getting a difference maker, he uses barely any cap, and he's depth insurance. Would prefer he play better as we all would, but this signing was never going to make or break this team. Besides, I think he will be a positive influence on Grigorenko defensively...though Hecht needs to get his legs moving.

Replacing Hecht with someone else who was available would not have kept this team from hitting the bottom.

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Old
02-15-2013, 10:52 AM
  #240
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If he was used to centre the 4th line it'd be fine, infact I think that would be hugely valuable but as it is I really don't like how Lindy is using him. He is pretty much done as a hockey player though, this has to be his last season.

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02-15-2013, 10:53 AM
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
So almost a month after being signed how is everyone's opinions on Jochen now?It is not even arguable, he has been plain bad all year.Heres his stat line


14 games, 0 goals, 3 assists, 3 points, -1 , 16:04/game

Pretty putrid stats to go with putrid play. Hecht is terrible, a waste of a roster spot. I find it hilarious he gets 16 minutes a game yet has 3 points. Give Grigorenko the 16 minutes a game instead of this loser.
Sadly that's still better than the rest of our bottom-six except Ott, if you just go by the numbers.

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02-15-2013, 10:53 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
LOL. Only on the Sabres board is sabremetrics/Corsi #s matter more then actually scoring goals.

If you get 16 minutes a game and have 0 goals 14 games into the season that's a joke. Hecht isn't that good defensively either.Sure, he "prevents" goals, too bad he can't even get out of his own defensive zone so for most of the time the puck is usually in our end or the neutral zone He can't cycle, make a crisp pass or even shoot the puck on net. He deserved to be a 4th liner getting 9-10 minutes a game at most, not 16.

Out of the 23 players who have played a game for us this year, 11 still haven't scored a goal. Top line =22 goals. Rest of team = 16 goals. Yeah, our offense is a one line pony. Maybe that's why I value goals more then advanced stats because last time I checked the National Hockey League counted goals as the barometer to win the games, not who has the highest QoC or Corsi #.

And Maybe Grigorenko should be in juniors but he's not so that is absolutely a moot point.And if he's up here and we are going to miss the playoffs anyway then why is Hecht getting 5+ more minutes a game then him? Oh that's right because Broken is Lindys favorite "toy" that he uses far too much. Hecht is done as a NHL player, turns 36 later this year and has the worst offensive talents in our top 9. Guys who are good in their own end but absolutely pathetic in the offensive zone are a dime a dozen.



The only thing Hecht is almost last on is the goal leaders on this team A guy on the ice for 225 minutes this season without a goal is a joke. By now he should have atleast had a fluke goal. And no, his problems aren't insignificant, he's getting prime minutes and doing NOTHING with them. Hecht is the first guy I would send packing at the deadline, but I guarantee no one would even want him. He isn't good enough to play for a cup contender or hell, even a playoff team.
How many minutes he gets isn't up to him.

You do understand that, right?

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Old
02-15-2013, 10:54 AM
  #243
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At 1 million .... It's fine.

Some can see what he brings besides points. Some can only see points
I guess most defenseman in the league suck too because most don't get points like forwards do

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02-15-2013, 10:57 AM
  #244
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By the way lol @ the people who are going after Ellis and Hecht just because Ruff might play the too much. It's not their ********** fault that our Coach makes bad decisions.

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02-15-2013, 11:01 AM
  #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
LOL. Only on the Sabres board is sabremetrics/Corsi #s matter more then actually scoring goals.
LOL. Sweet strawman, Freddie. Your first of several in that post. Who said anything about advanced stats or Corsi? How many 5-on-5 goals against you're on the ice for isn't exactly grad-level stuff here.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
If you get 16 minutes a game and have 0 goals 14 games into the season that's a joke.
He gets 13:30 of ES TOI/game, and roughly 2:30 of SH TOI/game. We can knock that 2:30 right off his total ice time because (a) nobody expects players to score points on the PK, and (b) I doubt anyone's really complaining that Hecht being on the PK is holding down other players in any form or fashion.

Next, he's 7th among forwards in ES TOI/game. Ott is 10 seconds behind him or he'd be in 8th. (Ott would be ahead of him but for all the time he spends in the penalty box. In other words, he's a 3rd line forward at ES. Who on this team would you play more than him at ES that isn't already getting more ES time than Hecht? Our overwhelmed 18 yr old rookie who should be playing junior hockey right now? Yeah, ok, that's not Shiny Toy syndrome or anything.

Finally, zero goals is pretty poor for 13:30 of ES TOI/game, but he's far from alone in that boat. Steve Ott has 1 ES goal in the same amount of ES ice time--and only 2 goals total even though he gets close to 2 mins of PP TOI/game. By the way, Steve Ott makes 3x what Jochen Hecht makes. Drew Stafford averages over 3 mins more per game at ES and PP, and he has zero goals. Stafford makes 4x more $$ than Hecht. Stafford is on our 2nd line. Marcus Foligno has 1 goal and averages over 3 mins more per game at ES and PP. Foligno is on our 2nd line.

Anyone who knows your posting history knows that you bumped this thread (a) because you've always hated Hecht, and (b) to start a flame war.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Hecht isn't that good defensively either.Sure, he "prevents" goals, too bad he can't even get out of his own defensive zone so for most of the time the puck is usually in our end or the neutral zone He can't cycle, make a crisp pass or even shoot the puck on net.
And we've now resorted to anecdotal arguments that cannot be proven or disproven. Good one, Freddie.

(BTW, I note the irony of you essentially trying to backdoor a Corsi argument even though you derided advanced stats earlier in your argument.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
He deserved to be a 4th liner getting 9-10 minutes a game at most, not 16.
He should be getting 10 mins of ES TOI/game and roughly the same amount of PK time. Problem is, his ice time isn't his fault. Blame Regier for not having more depth or casting his lot with Grigs as his third top-9 center. Blame Leino's injury. Leino's presence knocks Hecht to the 4th line for a Leino-Grigs-Ott third line. His ice time is entirely the fault of those that assembled this roster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Out of the 23 players who have played a game for us this year, 11 still haven't scored a goal. Top line =22 goals. Rest of team = 16 goals. Yeah, our offense is a one line pony. Maybe that's why I value goals more then advanced stats because last time I checked the National Hockey League counted goals as the barometer to win the games, not who has the highest QoC or Corsi #.
It sure is, but it sounds like your blame would better placed with our secondary scorers such as Stafford, Foligno, and Ott. Not only are those guys not scoring, the other team IS scoring with them on the ice. Double whammy.

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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
And Maybe Grigorenko should be in juniors but he's not so that is absolutely a moot point.
That's not how it works, Freddie. You can't whine about Hecht's ice time, then concede Grigs should still be in juniors--one post after saying he deserved more NHL ice time, mind you (contradict yourself much?). Part of the reason Hecht is getting so much ice time is because Grigs is so overwhelmed and Ruff has zero trust in him defensively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
And if he's up here and we are going to miss the playoffs anyway then why is Hecht getting 5+ more minutes a game then him?
Stop being intentionally dense. You know the team hasn't given up on the playoffs yet. If he's still getting a few more minutes per game than Grigs if we're sitting in 14th with 8 games left, your complaints may have some merit. Not now, though.

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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Oh that's right because Broken is Lindys favorite "toy" that he uses far too much.
When in doubt, seek the low-hanging fruit and make the inflammatory arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Hecht is done as a NHL player, turns 36 later this year and has the worst offensive talents in our top 9. Guys who are good in their own end but absolutely pathetic in the offensive zone are a dime a dozen.

Based on the efforts of Stafford, Foligno, and Ott, it looks we're about 1/3 of our way to that dozen. Again, Hecht should be a 4th liner. Then again, Grigs should be in the Q, and Leino should be in the lineup. It's not Hecht's fault.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
The only thing Hecht is almost last on is the goal leaders on this team A guy on the ice for 225 minutes this season without a goal is a joke.
But, apparently, all those other higher-paid players (Ott, Stafford) and players receiving more ice time (Foligno) are not jokes. Bisco Logic, FTW!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
By now he should have atleast had a fluke goal. And no, his problems aren't insignificant, he's getting prime minutes and doing NOTHING with them.
He's getting 3rd line minutes. Fact. But why let those get in the way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Hecht is the first guy I would send packing at the deadline, but I guarantee no one would even want him. He isn't good enough to play for a cup contender or hell, even a playoff team.
You really wanted to bump this thread didn't ya?

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Old
02-15-2013, 11:08 AM
  #246
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Zip you forgot ....





Awesome post

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02-15-2013, 11:46 AM
  #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
So almost a month after being signed how is everyone's opinions on Jochen now?It is not even arguable, he has been plain bad all year.Heres his stat line


14 games, 0 goals, 3 assists, 3 points, -1 , 16:04/game

Pretty putrid stats to go with putrid play. Hecht is terrible, a waste of a roster spot. I find it hilarious he gets 16 minutes a game yet has 3 points. Give Grigorenko the 16 minutes a game instead of this loser.
Being a -1, on a terrible defensive team, while drawing defensive matchups is actually pretty impressive

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02-15-2013, 11:50 AM
  #248
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"goals is the only stat i am competent enough to evaluate!!!!"

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02-15-2013, 11:57 AM
  #249
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Originally Posted by OcAirlines View Post
By the way lol @ the people who are going after Ellis and Hecht just because Ruff might play the too much. It's not their ********** fault that our Coach makes bad decisions.
It's not the coach's fault that he doesn't have enough competent forwards to ice a full lineup.

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02-15-2013, 12:11 PM
  #250
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People call Jochen and Ruff out for his TOI, but the truth is that its at the lowest of his career in Buffalo.

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