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Nick Schultz + Paajarvi + Omark package?

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Old
12-24-2012, 01:41 AM
  #51
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I'm fairly confident that Paajarvi will become an excellent 3rd liner in the NHL, especially with his newly-developed physical game (has thrown quite a few monstrous hits this year in the A). So I'd be very reluctant to trade him at this point, when his value is so low.
Also, our defensive depth is absolutely horrible right now, so it would not be a great idea to trade any of our D-men, unless a better D-man is coming back.

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Old
12-24-2012, 01:47 AM
  #52
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A #1 d-man not named Doughty, Chara or Weber.

Considering the fact that he chose to go to Edmonton and that he's by far the best player in the AHL in his first pro season, you'd have to cough up a lot.

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12-24-2012, 02:05 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
A #1 d-man not named Doughty, Chara or Weber.

Considering the fact that he chose to go to Edmonton and that he's by far the best player in the AHL in his first pro season, you'd have to cough up a lot.
That's Justin Schultz, not Nick.

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12-24-2012, 02:16 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duul View Post
That's Justin Schultz, not Nick.
Still, made me laugh even if he thought it was Justin.

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12-24-2012, 02:20 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Still, made me laugh even if he thought it was Justin.
Justin Schultz is producing at the same pace as Jordan Eberle, as a rookie defenceman. Him coupled with Paajarvi alone would net you a great #1 defenceman. Even if it didn't the Oilers wouldn't be trading Nick or Justin unless it was for a superior defenceman.

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12-24-2012, 03:51 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Still, made me laugh even if he thought it was Justin.
LOL I think I just laughed even harder.

Well then. I think that's an awkward package.

Some people might say that N Scultz is a decent #4 d-man, while others will tell you that he's a solid third pairing guy.

His first few weeks in Edmonton didn't go well because he had a hard time adjusting to our system. I can remember him making passes to people who were not there because he still had the Wild's system programmed into his head.

At the tail end of the year i thought he was playing allright.

I'm pretty sure Edmonton would either be looking for a clearly better d-man than N Schultz or a 2nd line center... but I don't think it would work, because there's nothing in this package that really jumps out at anyone.

Manus is turning into a damn good checking line forward. He's already go the size, the speed and this sea on he's showing that he's got the capacity to play the physical game as well. IMO he's showing us that he'll be much more valuable than Hartikainen as we go further down the road. That's all fine and dandy, but checking line wingers with horrible offensive instincts DO ACTUALLY grow on trees.

Omark is pretty much the opposite of Magnus. He's tiny, he's a sluggish skater, he's incredibly brash and even if his two way game is and always will be non-existant no matter how hard he tries. He truely is a Hemsky-lite with the puck. Great playmaker, decent wrist shot, which he should use more often and somewhat of a PP/shootout specialist. Again. Something which grows on trees. In my books he's pretty much Rob Schremp V2.0.

I'm honestly having a hard time imagining what we'd want for that package. Probably an overpayment because of the depth we'd lose on the wings and the fact that we need help on the blueline a lot as it is already.

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Old
12-24-2012, 06:36 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
...
Out of curiosity... do you have examples of of former high draft picks who came from the OHL/SEL, took until the age of 21/22 to find permanent spots in an NHL lineup, and went on to become a highly valuable NHL player?


Last edited by piqued: 12-24-2012 at 06:21 PM. Reason: qdp
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Old
12-24-2012, 06:56 AM
  #58
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Shultz is so overrated right now. Not saying the dude does not have potential but he is playing on a stacked AHL team. I'll wait until he puts up similar numbers in the NHL before I give away everything for him.

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12-24-2012, 07:37 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
Shultz is so overrated right now. Not saying the dude does not have potential but he is playing on a stacked AHL team. I'll wait until he puts up similar numbers in the NHL before I give away everything for him.
He is playing on a stacked AHL club? Well to some maybe. The one thing they do have is an NHL quality first line. A rusty Hall, an unsustainable Jordan Eberle and for now no RNH. Their defensive depth is poor on the club, and overall littered with inexperienced youth. He leads the league in scoring as a rookie defensemsn ffs and is the clubs #1 undisputed blueliner. There is a big drop off in talent after him but he's showing he can hang with the big boys in Hall and Eberle, putting up ridiculous numbers. He looks every bit as capable as them. You clearly have not seen him play. Calling him overrated is completely asinine.

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Old
12-24-2012, 08:06 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
Nyqvist +Kindl for N.Schultz, Paajarvi and Omark.

This deal works for both teams.

Kindl would provide some grit on the Oilers blueline that only Smid has been providing. Peckham can be atrocious at times.

Gustav is smaller than Paajarvi but his hockey IQ would mesh well with the Oiler's core. Both are defensively responsible but I would imagine a 3rd line with both Helm and Paajarvi would be ridiculous.

Omark clearly does not want to be a part of the Oiler's organization. But he seems to be showing a ton of chemistry with Zetterberg. He could provide some youth in the top 6, as well as some insane shootouts with him and Datsyuk in the line up.

Schultz helps to fill a major hole left in Detroit's blue line. He is no Lidstrom but he is very defensively responsible.
Not gonna happen as Rennet is in Detroit now. They just don't get along.

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Old
12-24-2012, 08:37 AM
  #61
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Trading these guys makes no sense for the Oilers, it seems that the OP didn't think this through at all.

First of all, no team is going to trade anything of value for those guys. Maybe draft picks and non blue chip prospects and the Oilers should be at a point where they need NHL players, not more picks and prospects.

Secondly, N. Schultz is exactly what they need on the team with young puckmovers like J. Schultz and Petry needing stable, stay at home guys to pair with. Smid and N. Schultz balances out the puckmovers Whitney, J. Schultz and Petry nicely so why tinker with it unless you're getting an upgrade in return which this trade package won't net.

Also, Paajarvi's trade value is at an all time low. It makes no sense to trade him now for what would be an underwhelming return. He still has plenty of ability, this is just his 3rd season in North America, some players take a longer path to development and i would rather the Oilers see his development through than give him away for nothing.
Omark is worth nothing. Not much more needs to be said about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post

Basing it on watching Nick Schultz last season?
With all due respect, i don't think you did. He played well with the Oilers.
He brought much needed stability to the blueline that somebody like Gilbert couldn't. The defense and Dubnyk's numbers improved after Schultz's arrival and i don't think that's any coincidence.
He's a solid 2nd pairing defenseman, don't see why anybody who has seen him play would think otherwise.


Last edited by CupofOil: 12-24-2012 at 08:44 AM.
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Old
12-24-2012, 08:40 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Caius Merlyn View Post
I saw him when he last played in the NHL, and he wasn't very good... Just like Kadri.

I have seen Kadri play well in the AHL this year however that doesn't increase his value as just like Pajaarvi he was supposed to be a fixture on an NHL roster by this point.

Both of these guys have so far underachieved. That's not to say there is zero chance for them to turn it around and become more valuable, but until they get the chance, and stick in the NHL it will be very hard for them to raise their value.
You completely missed the point. Paajarvi didn't look good because he was playing soft... Which he's improved at

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12-24-2012, 09:31 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
There are a couple of huge differences.

First, Kadri has never shown that he can be anything more than a top six forward, or that he has anything more than pure offense to his game. Pajaarvi has shown that he can be a solid two way player as a pro, in the NHL.

Second, Pajaarvi had a very good rookie year. Kadri hasn't been much at the NHL level. At most, you could say Pajaarvi had a horrific sophomore slump. Thats all.

And even if he hadn't made the NHL this year, who cares, one more year in the AHL working on his offense would do nothing but help his career, despite your off the wall claims.
There is no huge difference between Kadri and MPS right now in terms of value really.

And for the record of MPS's very good rookie year, Kadri has a higher PPG in the NHL level, and played much worse minutes than MPS has in terms of PP etc.

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12-24-2012, 09:54 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Caius Merlyn View Post
In any given season I watch a minimum of 30-40 games from each Canadian team.

While stats don't completely reflect play they do a decent job of outlining it.

However if you think that sticking your fingers in your ears and not refuting arguments is the best way to get your point across than be my guest... It certainly doesn't contribute much to a discussion based forum...
Stats don't often tell much, especially when you throw out stats like hitting for two guys who have historically thrown less than one hit a game, or plus minus, which we all know is the most useless stat in sports. There isn't much point in arguing about players that you seem to not have watched much.

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12-24-2012, 09:58 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
Shultz is so overrated right now. Not saying the dude does not have potential but he is playing on a stacked AHL team. I'll wait until he puts up similar numbers in the NHL before I give away everything for him.
First of all, wrong Schultz. This discussion is around Nick, not Justin. Second, the dude has been the go to player on his AHL team, its not like he's riding shotgun putting up secondary assists, he's a catalyst for the production while playing well defensively. I'm not sure how that leads to "overrated". Nobody is proclaiming him as the next Lidstrom or anything.

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12-24-2012, 10:01 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
There is no huge difference between Kadri and MPS right now in terms of value really.

And for the record of MPS's very good rookie year, Kadri has a higher PPG in the NHL level, and played much worse minutes than MPS has in terms of PP etc.
I'd agree that value wise they are close. I disagree that MPS has had easier minutes, Kadri has played top six for a lot of his NHL career so far, Pajaarvi has spent most of his time on the 3rd or 4th line.

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12-24-2012, 11:09 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
What can Edmonton get for a package of Nick Schultz, Magnus Paajarvi and Linus Omark?
Take what you would get as a return for Paajarvi, and and add a 2nd round pick.

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12-24-2012, 11:11 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
Nyqvist +Kindl for N.Schultz, Paajarvi and Omark.

This deal works for both teams.

Kindl would provide some grit on the Oilers blueline that only Smid has been providing. Peckham can be atrocious at times.

Gustav is smaller than Paajarvi but his hockey IQ would mesh well with the Oiler's core. Both are defensively responsible but I would imagine a 3rd line with both Helm and Paajarvi would be ridiculous.

Omark clearly does not want to be a part of the Oiler's organization. But he seems to be showing a ton of chemistry with Zetterberg. He could provide some youth in the top 6, as well as some insane shootouts with him and Datsyuk in the line up.

Schultz helps to fill a major hole left in Detroit's blue line. He is no Lidstrom but he is very defensively responsible.
Take out Gustav and the Red Wings don't block all future Oilers' calls.

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12-24-2012, 11:28 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
What can Edmonton get for a package of Nick Schultz, Magnus Paajarvi and Linus Omark?
No from the Oilers . PRV and Nick Schultz are not being traded . Maybe Omark for a 5th rd pick

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12-24-2012, 11:48 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
What can Edmonton get for a package of Nick Schultz, Magnus Paajarvi and Linus Omark?
Wonder if EDM can fetch Brodin + Clutterbuck for this package..

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12-24-2012, 11:54 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Take out Gustav and the Red Wings don't block all future Oilers' calls.
Lol you're kidding right? Why would we give up PRV for a massive downgrade on Schultz?

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12-24-2012, 12:03 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duul View Post
Justin Schultz is producing at the same pace as Jordan Eberle, as a rookie defenceman. Him coupled with Paajarvi alone would net you a great #1 defenceman. Even if it didn't the Oilers wouldn't be trading Nick or Justin unless it was for a superior defenceman.
Yeah, it's the "any #1 defenseman in the league who's not named Chara, Weber, or Doughty" thing that's kicking me. Do you honestly think St. Louis would even remotely entertain that for Pietrangelo? Ottawa for Karlsson? Phoenix for OEL? Etc. Maybe you could fetch a low-end #1D that's not about to enter his prime.


Last edited by piqued: 12-24-2012 at 06:28 PM. Reason: unnecessary
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Old
12-24-2012, 01:11 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Stats don't often tell much, especially when you throw out stats like hitting for two guys who have historically thrown less than one hit a game, or plus minus, which we all know is the most useless stat in sports. There isn't much point in arguing about players that you seem to not have watched much.
I'll guarantee I've seen more of both guys at the NHL level... Where it matters

There isn't much point in arguing about players when there is so much blind homerism present

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Old
12-24-2012, 01:30 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Caius Merlyn View Post
I'll guarantee I've seen more of both guys at the NHL level... Where it matters

There isn't much point in arguing about players when there is so much blind homerism present
That's a pretty bold claim, and one I doubt you can back up. You may have seen slightly more of Kadri, but judging by what you claim to know of Pajaarvi, it seems that you either didn't watch or weren't paying attention. And no homerism on my end, I know Pajaarvi's weaknesses, and also recognize that his work eithic is amazing and his natural tools are also off the charts, he simply needs some development. Which the Oilers gave him by sending him to the AHL last year.

So many people here think a demotion to the AHL means career death, or impending bust, when it often, like in Pajaarvi's case, means that for the sake of development, he needs a bigger role than what he would get in the NHL.

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12-24-2012, 02:57 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
Nyqvist +Kindl for N.Schultz, Paajarvi and Omark.

This deal works for both teams.

Kindl would provide some grit on the Oilers blueline that only Smid has been providing. Peckham can be atrocious at times.

Gustav is smaller than Paajarvi but his hockey IQ would mesh well with the Oiler's core. Both are defensively responsible but I would imagine a 3rd line with both Helm and Paajarvi would be ridiculous.

Omark clearly does not want to be a part of the Oiler's organization. But he seems to be showing a ton of chemistry with Zetterberg. He could provide some youth in the top 6, as well as some insane shootouts with him and Datsyuk in the line up.

Schultz helps to fill a major hole left in Detroit's blue line. He is no Lidstrom but he is very defensively responsible.
We are all laughing at you.

This is beyond horrible.

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