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who would you want to see phoenix pursue via trade

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02-07-2013, 11:41 PM
  #376
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For fun, let's say they blow it up after it's clear they aren't staying or they feel like tanking for a shot at MacKinnon/Drouin/Jones

Must Go:
Yandle
Doan
Morris

Other trade bait:
Klesla
Sullivan (UFA)
Gordon (UFA)
Biz (sucks)
Smith (UFA)
Chipchura (UFA)
Johnson (UFA)
LOLBarbs (UFA, thank god)
Torres (UFA)

Wonder how many picks and prospects we could get for the above junk?

Core/Not Likely:
Hanzal
Boedker
Vermette
Vrbata
Michalek
OEL
Schlemko
Summers
Rundblad
Stone

Gormley
Brown
Miele
Moss

2013-2014 Coyotes/Nords/Who Cares:

Boedker - Vermette - Brown
??? - Hanzal - Vrbata
??? - Miele - Moss
??? - ??? - ???

OEL - Rundblad
Michalek - Stone
Schlemko - Gormley
Summers

???
Visentin

D isn't half bad, actually.

2013 Draft Picks

1 - PHX
2 - PHX
3 - PHX
5 - PHX
6 - PHX
7 - PHX


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02-07-2013, 11:55 PM
  #377
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You should post on the main boards ^^

XX, you consider Vermette "core" or not likely.. Is it just because he contract isnt up?

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02-07-2013, 11:58 PM
  #378
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XX, you consider Vermette "core" or not likely.. Is it just because he contract isnt up?
It's pretty hard to find an affordable 2C that is good in every zone, can PK and is good at faceoffs. He's only 30, so he should at least stick with the team. He's French Canadian, so there's that too. We also got him for a song and a dance, so it'd be nice to hang on to him. I don't think he is part of the problem.

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02-08-2013, 12:01 AM
  #379
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I actually wonder what a Vrbata-Vermette-Bods line would like. Vermette has more playmaking ability then Hanzal has.

Agree that he's not part of the issue, his linemates are Doan and Sullivan and Tippet seems to be running 2/3/4 lines more than the first line, at least from what I noticed. could be mistaken. Might be that the first line isn't generating much.

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02-08-2013, 12:19 AM
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I really, really, really don't want Yandle moved, but Schlemko, Morris, and OEL are playing out of their minds, and Michalek is really starting to settle in, plus Klesla is awesome when he's healthy. Stone looks legit. I think summers is too. Rundblad has flashes.
So could this re-open the possibility of something around O'Reilly for Yandle?

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02-08-2013, 12:23 AM
  #381
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So could this re-open the possibility of something around O'Reilly for Yandle?
Yes. The Coyotes would like to tank the season though. When is the deadline for his return? Trade him after that, and the Coyotes can put off signing him until the ownership is settled for next year. Or just deal him again at the draft.

How about ROR and a 1st for Yandle? You give up nothing tangible.

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02-08-2013, 12:31 AM
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Yes. The Coyotes would like to tank the season though. When is the deadline for his return? Trade him after that, and the Coyotes can put off signing him until the ownership is settled for next year. Or just deal him again at the draft.

How about ROR and a 1st for Yandle? You give up nothing tangible.
What do you mean by deadline? Timetable from his ankle injury? It isn't believed to be serious, though obviously there's no details. Not too far off, if at all I would guess.

I doubt Phoenix would trade for him just to sit him until the offseason though. That would be a terrible way to treat a new player. I think if Phoenix were to trade for him, it would be with the plans of him playing a big role with the team. He had great chemistry with Landeskog, so I would expect him to have the same with Doan who's very similar. Probably put up more points if given a bunch of ice time in a top line role, and Doan as a linemate.

I personally wouldn't be too opposed to adding a 1st for Yandle, but that's how desperate Colorado is for a legit top pairing offensive defenseman. It might have to be top 5 protected though, especially since any non playoff team can win the lottery for 1st overall this year.

I would bet Colorado would want something else to even it out though. They like those one for one, or two for two type deals. Maybe a lower tier prospect, or a 4th or something. Maybe a depth guy? How much value does Gordon have with you guys?

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02-08-2013, 12:34 AM
  #383
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I would bet Colorado would want something else to even it out though. They like those one for one, or two for two type deals. Maybe a mid to lower tier prospect, or a 3rd or something.
Boyd Gordon + Yandle for ROR and your 1st this year

No way that pick is top 10 with those two added.

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02-08-2013, 12:36 AM
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Yandle and Morris to anyone for conditional 7th round pick and future considerations

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02-08-2013, 12:48 AM
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Boyd Gordon + Yandle for ROR and your 1st this year

No way that pick is top 10 with those two added.
I beg to differ. They could easily miss the playoffs still. Yandle is the exact piece this team needs, but Colorado has many other problems. Namely coaching, and inconsistent top forwards.

I get the feeling you guys are being a bit facetious though with the whole tank thing. I'm sure Phoenix will still be very reluctant to let Yandle go. Would Phoenix have a need for another defenseman to replace Yandle? Maybe Ryan Wilson, or one of our top prospects Tyson Barrie? Perhaps another forward prospect like Sgarbossa who while he's pointless in five games so far with little ice time, has looked very smart and creative offensively, and poised in all three zones so far?

O'Reilly, Wilson/Barrie/Sgarbossa, and a 1st in 2013 or 2014 (conditional on whether it's top five this year or not) for Yandle and pending UFA Gordon? Would that be enough?

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02-08-2013, 12:52 AM
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I beg to differ. They could easily miss the playoffs still. Yandle is the exact piece this team needs, but Colorado has many other problems. Namely coaching, and inconsistent top forwards.

O'Reilly, Wilson/Barrie/Sgarbossa, and a 1st in 2013 or 2014 (conditional on whether it's top five this year or not) for Yandle and Gordon? Would that be enough?
I assume you guys are hoping for Seth Jones. Yandle is what you hope Jones turns into, 2-3 years from now. I'm not sure how protection works with the new lottery system, but that's the gamble you make. If the Avs feel Gordon and Yandle let them squeak into the playoffs and be competitive, you make the trade. Not really interested if it's protected. That removes all upside. They need the pick this year, not next.

The 1st is really the only reason you have a shot at getting Yandle for an unsigned player, however great ROR is. Other teams would be giving up 2 bluechips for him. But the Coyotes want an NHL ready center, and ROR is a good fit.

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02-08-2013, 01:05 AM
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I assume you guys are hoping for Seth Jones. Yandle is what you hope Jones turns into, 2-3 years from now. I'm not sure how protection works with the new lottery system, but that's the gamble you make. If the Avs feel Gordon and Yandle let them squeak into the playoffs and be competitive, you make the trade. Not really interested if it's protected. That removes all upside. They need the pick this year, not next.

The 1st is really the only reason you have a shot at getting Yandle for an unsigned player, however great ROR is. Other teams would be giving up 2 bluechips for him. But the Coyotes want an NHL ready center, and ROR is a good fit.
We'll there's a couple things with this. Firstly, Jones is a righty, and the Avs need a lefty to play with EJ. He'd be nice, but I personally would take McKinnon, Barkov, or Drouin over him since it's so hard to predict the upisde of defensive prospects, and you have to wait around forever just to make sure.

I won't disagree Colorado needs to add to O'Reilly to get Yandle. I would argue though that most teams won't be able to provide a player the caliber of O'Reilly as the centerpiece, especially since he's the prototypical Tippet player. He will be a better player, and a much safer bet to produce offensively in the role Phoenix would provide him, than Colorado would with two other centers like Stastny and Duchene. I've seen the argument before that his points could dip under Tippett, but knowing O'Reilly I wouldn't be too concerned with that from your perspective. I'm more concerned that his points would dip with Colorado than with Phoenix, unless the Avs trade Stastny which I'm also open to as an alternative.

The unsigned player part isn't a big factor for Phoenix IMO. I'm sure they'd be given permission to speak with his agent. I'd suspect you could get him for $4-4.5M on a long term deal. That's just my guess. Rumors from someone who knows Ryan and other Avalanche players are that something happened in negotiations over the summer between O'Reilly and the Avs front office. Something that may have offended him, and want to dig in rather then take a prove it type of bridge deal with Colorado like Duchene did. Who knows, maybe he'd take that bridge deal with Phoenix.

It's also possible the Avs would give up that 1st without it being protected. I think I may have more of an issue with that given the possibility of getting a Mckinnon/Barkov/ Drouin type of player. Sherman has shown a willingness to gamble on that though despite public opinion like in the Varlamov trade, but this may be different in a shortened season, and the fact that we're almost a quarter in and the Avs are down in the standings as it is.

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02-08-2013, 01:12 AM
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unless the Avs trade Stastny which I'm also open to as an alternative.
For ***** and giggles, let's pretend that the Coyotes are QC bound. Stastny is worth a lot less than ROR. What did you have in mind?

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02-08-2013, 01:14 AM
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For ***** and giggles, let's pretend that the Coyotes are QC bound. Stastny is worth a lot less than ROR. What did you have in mind?
Eh, that's a whole other can of worms. Though if they are QC bound, I'd say he has more value there than with other teams. Keep in mind though, he's a UFA after next season. It's kind of a case where if the Avs can't address a specific need, it doesn't make sense to trade him. They'd likely just keep him, and try to sign him for cheaper, or let him walk.

Unless it's for the same kind of deal O'Reilly would bring in, it probably wouldn't work between Colorado and Phoenix. How close are we though with the O'Reilly, Wilson/Barrie/Sgarbossa, and a conditional 1st for Yandle and pending UFA Gordon?

Taking the fan element out of it, realistically is the conditional aspect a deal breaker? Remember they could have the 6th overall pick, and not win the lottery and that would be added to the deal. Secondly, if they weren't to make it conditional, is that realistically enough you think? Don't feel the need to only answer one of those, since obviously you wouldn't be held to it. Just wondering from a curiosity standpoint.


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02-08-2013, 02:04 AM
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How close are we though with the O'Reilly, Wilson/Barrie/Sgarbossa, and a conditional 1st for Yandle and pending UFA Gordon?
Not at all interested in Barrie or Wilson. Sgarbossa is maybe a nice sweetener. It's close. I still think the Coyotes are dealing from a position of great strength, while the Avs are disadvantaged by everyone knowing ROR refuses to sign.

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Taking the fan element out of it, realistically is the conditional aspect a deal breaker? Remember they could have the 6th overall pick, and not win the lottery and that would be added to the deal. Secondly, if they weren't to make it conditional, is that realistically enough you think? Don't feel the need to only answer one of those, since obviously you wouldn't be held to it. Just wondering from a curiosity standpoint.
I don't think GMs are fond of agreeing to protection. But again, is that before or after the lottery is taken into account? The Coyotes want that upside of getting the nice pick. But they'd be just as happy in the middle of the round with a shot at Lazar (Samuelsson's teammate). So if it wasn't protected, I think the Coyotes do it. Two picks in ~the top 15 is a good way to stock up with the uncertainty surrounding the team. A really, really long shot at the #1 overall (less than 2% past 10, if I remember right) isn't enough to hold up the deal for the Avs IMO.

If you told Maloney he could have O'Reilly, Sgarbossa and Lazar for Yandle and Gordon, I think he does it. That pick could be better, could be worse, but the Coyotes need to start grabbing some skill guys.

The deadline I was referring to is the date which RFAs have to sign by to be eligible for this season. Isn't that coming up? I'd love to trade for ROR, mothball him and let him get 100%, and then sign him to a nice deal in the offseason. New ownership, possibly.

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02-08-2013, 09:26 AM
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For me it's Gordon that's the deal breaker, and not the top five protection. ROR and a 1st(top five protected) for Yandle is good enough value for me. Would I make the trade? It's too tough to say for sure. Probably not at this point, but it's close.

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02-08-2013, 11:33 AM
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Not at all interested in Barrie or Wilson. Sgarbossa is maybe a nice sweetener. It's close. I still think the Coyotes are dealing from a position of great strength, while the Avs are disadvantaged by everyone knowing ROR refuses to sign.
Agreed, I think Phoenix is dealing from a stronger position, but I don't think the unsigned aspect is as strong a factor as trying to trade some of the other holdouts in the past.

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I don't think GMs are fond of agreeing to protection. But again, is that before or after the lottery is taken into account? The Coyotes want that upside of getting the nice pick. But they'd be just as happy in the middle of the round with a shot at Lazar (Samuelsson's teammate). So if it wasn't protected, I think the Coyotes do it. Two picks in ~the top 15 is a good way to stock up with the uncertainty surrounding the team. A really, really long shot at the #1 overall (less than 2% past 10, if I remember right) isn't enough to hold up the deal for the Avs IMO.

If you told Maloney he could have O'Reilly, Sgarbossa and Lazar for Yandle and Gordon, I think he does it. That pick could be better, could be worse, but the Coyotes need to start grabbing some skill guys.
I'm sure they're not fond of doing it, and maybe Sherman would gamble, but when Colorado is currently 14th in the west, and 28th overall with just 38 games left to play, and any team can win the 1st overall if they finish in 9th, I think that's too big a gamble. That's a very decent chance you're adding a potential top line forward in McKinnon, Barkov, or Drouin, or a potential #1 stud in Jones to an already proven #2 all around center in O'Reilly.

I understand why they would want that, but I think getting a #6-15th overall pick in addition to O'Reilly is still a very good value. For me personally I would protect for top 5 in general, so it would have to wait until after the lottery in case they won. Maybe they could add another conditional pick or something if Phoenix pressed them on it. Like a 1st and a 3rd in 2014 if the 2013 pick is in the top 5.

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The deadline I was referring to is the date which RFAs have to sign by to be eligible for this season. Isn't that coming up? I'd love to trade for ROR, mothball him and let him get 100%, and then sign him to a nice deal in the offseason. New ownership, possibly.
You know I had forgotten about that, but I haven't heard any talk anywhere regarding it. Weren't they considering dropping that from the CBA during negotiations at one point? Maybe they didn't include it this time around.

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For me it's Gordon that's the deal breaker, and not the top five protection. ROR and a 1st(top five protected) for Yandle is good enough value for me. Would I make the trade? It's too tough to say for sure. Probably not at this point, but it's close.
Interesting to note that the value is pretty close.

Why would Gordon be a deal breaker out of curiosity? I don't think he would have to be included, but he would help the Avs PK, and trade value wise he isn't a whole lot.

I figured he wasn't really in the Yotes plans since he's a vet who's set to be a UFA this summer, and at the very least isn't a lock to resign?


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02-08-2013, 11:49 AM
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For me it's Gordon that's the deal breaker, and not the top five protection. ROR and a 1st(top five protected) for Yandle is good enough value for me. Would I make the trade? It's too tough to say for sure. Probably not at this point, but it's close.
Gordon is an UFA that will walk at the end of the year. No way we can offer him a nice deal, and he has probably gotten the attention of many clubs in the west with his play.

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02-08-2013, 01:08 PM
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Gordon is an UFA that will walk at the end of the year. No way we can offer him a nice deal, and he has probably gotten the attention of many clubs in the west with his play.
I'm not sure why it's a foregone conclusion. I'm hopeful that we give him a three year deal.

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02-08-2013, 01:58 PM
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I'm not sure why it's a foregone conclusion. I'm hopeful that we give him a three year deal.
How likely is it that Phoenix goes into rebuild/shed salary mode? I assume that's why we're talking about Yandle again given the ownership issues?

If that's the case, wouldn't it be likely Gordon would look to sign elsewhere as a UFA? Unless Phoenix offers him near top dollar, which also would be unlikely if money is an issue?

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02-08-2013, 04:52 PM
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How likely is it that Phoenix goes into rebuild/shed salary mode? I assume that's why we're talking about Yandle again given the ownership issues?

If that's the case, wouldn't it be likely Gordon would look to sign elsewhere as a UFA? Unless Phoenix offers him near top dollar, which also would be unlikely if money is an issue?
There is no salary to shed.

Rebuild? Why? We're fine. This is a throw away season, and I still expect us to fully rebound and sneak in at the eighth seed.

We're talking about Yandle because the young guys are making big strides on defense and we're about to find ourselves in a log jam because Stone and Schlemko are looking great and Rundblad appears near ready, while OEL is showing no signs of plateau and there is still a lot of hope for guys like Summers and Gormley. Conversely, our depth up the middle is questionable, especially given the injury to Lombardi, who appears to have issues staying healthy.

Gordon is a fourth line center. He may be the best in the business, but he's still a fourth line center. They don't get terribly overpaid. I have no problem giving him term, which is probably a bigger priority for him. He earned a two year, 2.65m contract last time he was UFA and he was a well known asset on the PK/4th line. I'd be happy to give him double the term and a nice fat raise on the annual rate. Four years, seven million. I'd guess that'd get it done, no?

All of this goes out the window if the team relocates to Quebec next season. Maloney and Tippett are in contract years, and I'm not sure they'll make the move to La belle province. I'd put our chances at being the Nordiques V2.0 this time next year at about 50%.


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02-08-2013, 04:57 PM
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1. There is no salary to shed.

2. Rebuild? Why? We're fine. This is a throw away season, and I still expect us to fully rebound and sneak in at the eighth seed.

3. We're talking about Yandle because the young guys are making big strides on defense and we're about to find ourselves in a log jam because Stone and Schlemko are looking great and Rundblad appears near ready, while OEL is showing no signs of plateau and there is still a lot of hope for guys like Summers and Gormley. Conversely, our depth up the middle is questionable, especially given the injury to Lombardi, who appears to have issues staying healthy.

4. Gordon is a fourth line center. He may be the best in the business, but he's still a fourth line center. They don't get terribly overpaid. I have no problem giving him term, which is probably a bigger priority for him.

5. All of this goes out the window if the team relocates to Quebec next season. Maloney and Tippett are in contract years, and I'm not sure they'll make the move to La belle province. I'd put our chances at being the Nordiques V2.0 this time next year at about 50%.
With Patrick Roy as Coach/GM if that's the case. That's what he's been waiting for. I didn't know about the expiring contracts, that lines up perfectly for him.

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02-08-2013, 05:04 PM
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With Patrick Roy as Coach/GM if that's the case. That's what he's been waiting for. I didn't know about the expiring contracts, that lines up perfectly for him.
His resume is not impressive. I'd be hesitant to hand the keys to the organization over to him. If Maloney and Tippett don't make the move, I'd prefer to offer the team to the Hunters. Dale didn't want to stay in DC and work for McPhee, but if he's given the chance to bring his brother along and run the whole franchise in QC, he might be willing. I think his style is a fairly good fit for the pieces Maloney has assembled and the players that have learned under Tippett. I could see that London way being an easy transition, and an effective style for the market. There is also the obvious Nordiques connection there.

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02-08-2013, 05:23 PM
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His resume is not impressive. I'd be hesitant to hand the keys to the organization over to him. If Maloney and Tippett don't make the move, I'd prefer to offer the team to the Hunters. Dale didn't want to stay in DC and work for McPhee, but if he's given the chance to bring his brother along and run the whole franchise in QC, he might be willing. I think his style is a fairly good fit for the pieces Maloney has assembled and the players that have learned under Tippett. I could see that London way being an easy transition, and an effective style for the market. There is also the obvious Nordiques connection there.
Somehow I would expect Roy to get it over Hunter. Both from a media perspective, and the fact that he's made no bones about that being what he wants, and that he would just make it happen somehow. He's either turned down gigs, or asked for large amounts of money and roles because that's what he's holding out for. He probably has some reason to believe he could get it, and has probably made some connections in his time there since retirement.

I have no idea what kind of NHL coach and GM he would be, but his resume's not that bad. He won the Memorial in 06, and made it to the 3rd round in the Q playoffs in 08 and 2011.

Given the choice though I would stick with Maloney and/or Tippett if at all possible obviously.

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02-08-2013, 05:29 PM
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Hall of Famer with dubious qualifications wants to take over behind the bench and/or the front office? Sounds like

Coyotes Hockey: Hockey The (Way, Way, Way) Hard(er Than It Needs To Be) Way

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