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Garrioch: Penguins pursuing Gonchar

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Old
12-27-2012, 08:15 PM
  #176
Benny FTW
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Gonchar and Michalek for Pouliot and Bennett
Id rather keep Michalek and trade Gonchar for something at the deadline, if needed.

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Old
12-27-2012, 09:15 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Michalek > Bennett and Pouliot > Gonchar. Fair.
armPitts win Cup
Armpittsburgh? Oh yeah good one, Snottawa! #backinfirstgrade

A guy who averages ~55 points a season and a 38-year-old on the slide a few months from free agency won't get two premium prospects from Ray Shero.

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12-27-2012, 09:25 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by clefty View Post
Armpittsburgh? Oh yeah good one, Snottawa! #backinfirstgrade

A guy who averages ~55 points a season and a 38-year-old on the slide a few months from free agency won't get two premium prospects from Ray Shero.
I lol'ed.


Well they're not that good. Bennett is extremely unlikely to average 55 points per season, let alone ever reach it. Michalek had 35 goals last year, and his point totals would only go up playing with Crosby. He definitely has more value, this isn't even close. Plays LW or RW too.

Gonchar is exactly what the Pens need. Top 4 D, left handed shot who plays the PP. They have a void back there. If it fits under the cap, which it likely would at the deadline, the Pens are the overwhelming favorites for the Cup.

Michalek isn't super old. He can take Bennett's future place if you will. Pouliot is redundant with the prospect depth on the backend.

Cup vs slightly better long term. Your choice.

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Old
12-27-2012, 09:35 PM
  #179
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Pouliot is nothing special either. So he's racking up points on a great offensive team. whoopteedoo

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12-27-2012, 09:37 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhalerTurnedBruin55 View Post
Well, it's always what team A wants from team B and how bad they want it.

Not perfect example but Coburn for Zhitnik quite a few years back... at deadline.
During the Trade deadline, General Managers can be pressured by owners and management to make a push for the playoffs. This is why trades like that happen.

A player of Gonchar's calibre and experience could demand a decent return at the deadline. He also has a Stanley Cup ring and has proven to be a great mentor thus far, with Malkin and now Karlsson as examples.

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12-27-2012, 09:43 PM
  #181
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Aside from not being my choice, it's also extremely reductive reasoning you've got there. Anyone who says "all you need is player and you win the cup" frankly has no idea what they're talking about. Watching the way we played defensively the last six weeks of the season, I have hard time thinking a defenseman whose strengths exist on offense is going to suddenly propel the Penguins four rounds forwards to the Stanley Cup.

It's also an extremely big assumption to make re: Bennett. He's just 20 in his first year of professional hockey and he's got a lot of skill and some good upside. You don't have the first inkling at where he's going to top out production wise should he reach the NHL, indeed I'll bet that at best you've only seen him play one or two games on an online stream playing against Binghampton. And I don't know either. But given the state of the Penguins forward pipeline and Bennett's strong showing thus far, I'm pretty confident the Pens are going to want to find out some more for themselves before selling on him so early.

And now you're shooting off about Pouliot. I've seen people do this on this board a thousand times: Propose a deal for particular players, and when the proposition receives a tepid response, go off about how the players - who they just proposed be added to their team - aren't even any good. Baffling.

Seems to me you don't even want these guys. I guess that makes this an easy one: No deal, end of discussion.


Last edited by clefty: 12-27-2012 at 09:50 PM.
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12-27-2012, 09:49 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clefty View Post
Aside from not being my choice, it's also extremely reductive reasoning you've got there. Anyone who says "all you need is player and you win the cup" frankly has no idea what they're talking about. Watching the way we played defensively the last six weeks of the season, I have hard time thinking a defenseman whose strengths exist on offense is going to suddenly propel the Penguins four rounds forwards to the Stanley Cup.

It's also an extremely big assumption to make re: Bennett. He's just 20 in his first year of professional hockey and he's got a lot of skill and some good upside. You don't have the first inkling at where he's going to top out production wise should he reach the NHL, indeed I'll bet that at best you've only seen him play one or two games on an online stream playing against Binghampton. And I don't know either. But given the state of the Penguins forward pipeline and Bennett's strong showing thus far, I'm pretty confident the Pens are going to want to find out some more for themselves before selling on him so early.
The problem is/was Zbynek Michalek, Paul Martin, and horrible 3rd pairing defensemen.

Is Gonchar better defensively than most of them? Probably not better, but similar, and maybe better than Lovejoy and whatever crap is on the 3rd pair.

Gonchar still fills a big time need. Regardless. Pittsburgh probably needs 1 more solid guy on the backend + Gonchar.

X - Letang
Orpik - Gonchar
Martin/Despres - Niskanen

As you can see I'm not a fan of Martin. They need an upgrade in there somewhere. And for sure a Left shooting PP guy.

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Old
12-27-2012, 10:07 PM
  #183
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Ottawa doesn't need a defensive prospect. We've got Karlsson, Cowen, Wiercioch, Ceci, Methot, etc...

I'd suspect a pick and grinder. 2nd and someone else.

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Old
12-28-2012, 02:28 AM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clefty View Post
Aside from not being my choice, it's also extremely reductive reasoning you've got there. Anyone who says "all you need is player and you win the cup" frankly has no idea what they're talking about. Watching the way we played defensively the last six weeks of the season, I have hard time thinking a defenseman whose strengths exist on offense is going to suddenly propel the Penguins four rounds forwards to the Stanley Cup.

It's also an extremely big assumption to make re: Bennett. He's just 20 in his first year of professional hockey and he's got a lot of skill and some good upside. You don't have the first inkling at where he's going to top out production wise should he reach the NHL, indeed I'll bet that at best you've only seen him play one or two games on an online stream playing against Binghampton. And I don't know either. But given the state of the Penguins forward pipeline and Bennett's strong showing thus far, I'm pretty confident the Pens are going to want to find out some more for themselves before selling on him so early.

And now you're shooting off about Pouliot. I've seen people do this on this board a thousand times: Propose a deal for particular players, and when the proposition receives a tepid response, go off about how the players - who they just proposed be added to their team - aren't even any good. Baffling.

Seems to me you don't even want these guys. I guess that makes this an easy one: No deal, end of discussion.

So you wouldn't trade Bennet for Michalek?

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Old
12-28-2012, 02:40 AM
  #185
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Not that it's relevant, but if I'm dealing Bennett at this point in time it's part of a package for a big swing for the fence, Hossa style.

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Old
12-28-2012, 12:04 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clefty View Post
Not that it's relevant, but if I'm dealing Bennett at this point in time it's part of a package for a big swing for the fence, Hossa style.
That would pretty much be the only scenario where including high picks (2nd rounders or higher) or top prospects (Despres, Morrow, Maatta, etc) would make sense. Even then, I'd hesitate to do the deal from a long-term standpoint.

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Old
12-28-2012, 12:32 PM
  #187
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Gonchar for Matt Cooke

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12-28-2012, 09:38 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by The Waffler View Post
Gonchar for Matt Cooke
I hate Matt Cooke.

So no from me.

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Old
12-28-2012, 11:23 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by The Waffler View Post
Gonchar for Matt Cooke
That would never happen, mostly because of who it is, but also because we've already lost Staal. Our PK is our strength and we're not dismantling it completely.

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12-29-2012, 05:10 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by ErikKarlsson View Post
So you wouldn't trade Bennet for Michalek?
Considering that the cap will possibly drop to close to $60 million next year that isn't a move Pens can afford to do. Right now based on the current CBA proposal on the table, Pens can't afford Michalek when they've got almost $53 million spent already for next year with Dupuis, Cooke, Kennedy and other depth players still need to be re-signed.

Also based on how Bennett has adjusted to AHL game right away he looks to be a keeper. He's Pens' top forward prospect and his cheap ELC contract will be very valuable with the lowered cap ceiling.

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12-29-2012, 09:56 AM
  #191
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I hate Matt Cooke.

So no from me.
You wouldn't hate him if he was on your team.

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12-29-2012, 10:24 AM
  #192
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You wouldn't hate him if he was on your team.
Cook takes cheap shots and ended a players career. A player whom would have been traded to Ottawa if he had cleared medicals. (1 season of being a saint doesn't change a lifetime of being an *******.)

I would rather sign Avery. That is how much I hate Cooke.

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12-29-2012, 10:38 AM
  #193
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That would never happen, mostly because of who it is, but also because we've already lost Staal. Our PK is our strength and we're not dismantling it completely.
Ha Ha. That's funny. I think Philly just scored on the PP again.

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Old
12-30-2012, 03:16 AM
  #194
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I'd love to have Sarge back..... other moves permitting/depending on whatever cap will be there for the short season we're hopefully going to see.

But I don't think Shero will trade a lot for him when he will be UFA at seasons end, and with how he is playing right now and Ottawa having not the longest list of defenders, it is hard so see the compromise there unless we're talking a deadline acquisition with Ottawa looking out of it.... something I surely wouldn't count on.

In any case I would hope that Gonchar gives a discount on an ending his career contract with the Pens. On an affordable contract, he would be enormous as a third pairing D-man QB'ing our PP. Well, a guy can dream.

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Old
12-30-2012, 04:30 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
Ottawa doesn't need a defensive prospect. We've got Karlsson, Cowen, Wiercioch, Ceci, Methot, etc...

I'd suspect a pick and grinder. 2nd and someone else.
I hope you're not serious. Ceci is our only top end d-prospect, the only one with top 4 potential. We need another top end d-prospect.

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12-30-2012, 06:20 AM
  #196
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You wouldn't hate him if he was on your team.
I probably would.

I hated Ruutu when he was here. I can't see how Cooke would be any different.

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12-30-2012, 07:40 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Qward View Post
Cook takes cheap shots and ended a players career. A player whom would have been traded to Ottawa if he had cleared medicals. (1 season of being a saint doesn't change a lifetime of being an *******.)

I would rather sign Avery. That is how much I hate Cooke.
If you actually had seen Cooke's play for last season you'd see he's changed.

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12-30-2012, 12:42 PM
  #198
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I hope you're not serious. Ceci is our only top end d-prospect, the only one with top 4 potential. We need another top end d-prospect.
Weircioch.

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12-30-2012, 12:45 PM
  #199
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If you actually had seen Cooke's play for last season you'd see he's changed.
I've seen Cooke play from his time with the Frontenacs.

Unless he goes the rest of his career without reverting back to his cheap self, he will always be dirty to me.

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12-30-2012, 01:39 PM
  #200
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I probably would.

I hated Ruutu when he was here. I can't see how Cooke would be any different.
How could you hate Sharkko?

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