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UFC 155: Dos Santos vs Velasquez II

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Old
12-30-2012, 03:16 PM
  #576
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Originally Posted by m9 View Post
I don't see this at all. Cain is a much better striker than Werdum so he'll just keep it standing ala the Nog fight.
Huh? Werdum outstruck Overeem and has drastically improved his striking on top of that performance.

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12-30-2012, 03:17 PM
  #577
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Nothing against Werdum but I think the fight would go wherever Cain wants it to go. He'll take Werdum down if that's what he wants to do.
I'm sure he could take Werdum down. I no way will that be any bit smart. Werdum has the most dangerous guard in MMA, flailing your arms around in it is not a smart move.

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12-30-2012, 03:30 PM
  #578
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I really don't understand how judges score these fights. One judge scored 50-45 in favor of Cain. How on Earth do you not give Cain a 10-8? You could even give a 10-7 round that match.

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12-30-2012, 03:36 PM
  #579
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Originally Posted by MurrayBannerman View Post
Huh? Werdum outstruck Overeem and has drastically improved his striking on top of that performance.
I stand by what I said. Cain is a much better striker than Werdum. Werdum has improved a lot, but Cain is still better.

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12-30-2012, 04:32 PM
  #580
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Impressive performance from Cain. Just thorough domination for 25 minutes. I was a little surprised that he wasn't able to keep JDS down at any point in the fight, but credit goes to JDS for his strength/cardio/heart. Took a beating for 5 rounds but was never real close to being finished.

I believe toward the end of the 2nd they said Cain was 6 for 10 on takedown attemps and I remember thinking to myself, why didn't I just do the takedown bet. Lol. Because at that point it seemed like Cain wasn't going to be able to finish him, but there's always that concern that JDS could land a bomb. Take your pick Liquor.


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12-30-2012, 05:00 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by m9 View Post
Yes absolutely, would love to see it. Just don't really like Werdum's path to victory.
One thing Werdum does have aside from world class bjj is that he can make Cain pay in the clinch with knees. It would be a great fight and if Werdum beats up Nog's corpse like he should then those two would be on a collision course. Overeem is a superior striker to Cain and better at catching someone in a sub but I think Cain can push him hard much like he did JDS and possibly finish him.

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12-30-2012, 05:16 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
One thing Werdum does have aside from world class bjj is that he can make Cain pay in the clinch with knees. It would be a great fight and if Werdum beats up Nog's corpse like he should then those two would be on a collision course. Overeem is a superior striker to Cain and better at catching someone in a sub but I think Cain can push him hard much like he did JDS and possibly finish him.
The one thing that Overeem has a huge advantage over JDS is his diverse stand-up. If JDS made Cain eat some heavy knees during the clinch and take-downs, then I think Cain would have been less aggressive. JDS cannot solely rely on boxing when you're facing a wrestler that trains kickboxing.

Watch the Lesnar vs Overeem fight, Overeem's knees and leg kicks are devastating.

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12-30-2012, 05:27 PM
  #583
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Originally Posted by ZenMaster View Post
The one thing that Overeem has a huge advantage over JDS is his diverse stand-up. If JDS made Cain eat some heavy knees during the clinch and take-downs, then I think Cain would have been less aggressive. JDS cannot solely rely on boxing when you're facing a wrestler that trains kickboxing.

Watch the Lesnar vs Overeem fight, Overeem's knees and leg kicks are devastating.
Not only that, but Cain can take JDS at will because he has no fear of being subbed. Its not JDS' thing. Same reason why Werdum had no issue being on the ground with Overeem. Sure Overeem could have caught him, but that wasn't likely as Werdum's BJJ is on a different level.

When it comes to Overeem and Cain, Cain has to be aware of taking Overeem down as Overeem has 17 wins by submission(sub subs, not tappin from strikes) using 6 different subs. Overeem also has good sweeps and TDs himself and Cain could end up on the bottom and who knows what he's like there under sustained pressure.

So if the ground doesn't work for Cain he has to over power him standing and I honestly just can't see that happening. People are saying Reem wilts under pressure, but that just isn't true. Look at a guy like Brock, that is someone who did not like being pressured in the cage, or being hit for that matter.

That is almost an understatement. 13 KO/TKO wins with the knee. Add in the Lesnar fight as he set up the final blows with a few brutal knees and its 14.


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12-30-2012, 05:33 PM
  #584
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Originally Posted by ZenMaster View Post
The one thing that Overeem has a huge advantage over JDS is his diverse stand-up. If JDS made Cain eat some heavy knees during the clinch and take-downs, then I think Cain would have been less aggressive. JDS cannot solely rely on boxing when you're facing a wrestler that trains kickboxing.

Watch the Lesnar vs Overeem fight, Overeem's knees and leg kicks are devastating.
I said that after the fight last night. JDS used to have a much more diverse striking game..not on Overeems level but there isn't a heavyweight on the planet that is. Overeem is a monster anywhere on his feet but Cain has good hands to go along with his relentless wrestling. Of course Overeem has to handle his business against Bigfoot first.

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12-30-2012, 05:45 PM
  #585
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I will say one thing for Cain, he might not really have KO power, but he's great at accumilation of damage...


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12-30-2012, 05:49 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
I will say one thing for Cain, he might not really have KO power, but he's great at accumilation of damage...

He is accurate and patient with his g'n'p. He doesn't waste energy or swing wildly.

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12-30-2012, 06:08 PM
  #587
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JDS recovered from that 1st round punch that sent him into the fence in the 4th round. You can't win like that. Even before then, JDS didn't look like he was prepared for Cain's gameplan.

I'll give JDS this, it was an impressive display of heart. I feel he'll come back better than ever, but I'm saying this with him being my favorite, active fighter along with Weidman.

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12-30-2012, 06:26 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by BGDDYKWL View Post
Impressive performance from Cain. Just thorough domination for 25 minutes. I was a little surprised that he wasn't able to keep JDS down at any point in the fight, but credit goes to JDS for his strength/cardio/heart. Took a beating for 5 rounds but was never real close to being finished.

I believe toward the end of the 2nd they said Cain was 6 for 10 on takedown attemps and I remember thinking to myself, why didn't I just do the takedown bet. Lol. Because at that point it seemed like Cain wasn't going to be able to finish him, but there's always that concern that JDS could land a bomb. Take your pick Liquor.

It was an impressive performance. Thanks for giving me a choice. I knew I was in trouble fairly quickly. I kept hoping for a Silva type comeback but Junior was gassed.

Edit: the file size for those images is too large. It wont let me use them. Gonna have to find something under 20kb.


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Old
12-30-2012, 06:27 PM
  #589
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Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
Not only that, but Cain can take JDS at will because he has no fear of being subbed. Its not JDS' thing. Same reason why Werdum had no issue being on the ground with Overeem. Sure Overeem could have caught him, but that wasn't likely as Werdum's BJJ is on a different level.

When it comes to Overeem and Cain, Cain has to be aware of taking Overeem down as Overeem has 17 wins by submission(sub subs, not tappin from strikes) using 6 different subs. Overeem also has good sweeps and TDs himself and Cain could end up on the bottom and who knows what he's like there under sustained pressure.

So if the ground doesn't work for Cain he has to over power him standing and I honestly just can't see that happening. People are saying Reem wilts under pressure, but that just isn't true. Look at a guy like Brock, that is someone who did not like being pressured in the cage, or being hit for that matter.

That is almost an understatement. 13 KO/TKO wins with the knee. Add in the Lesnar fight as he set up the final blows with a few brutal knees and its 14.
I doubt anyone is worried about Overeem's subs. Most of his subs have been against HW and LHW cans years ago. I know you like to focus your fight analysis on fights that happened years ago, ie your Anderson Silva sucks stance, but this is again stretching. You can't say how good Overeem is on the ground from years ago while then discounting how poor Overeem wilts under pressure... Or more specifically how he wilts when he gets hit hard.

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12-30-2012, 06:40 PM
  #590
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Originally Posted by m9 View Post
I doubt anyone is worried about Overeem's subs. Most of his subs have been against HW and LHW cans years ago. I know you like to focus your fight analysis on fights that happened years ago, ie your Anderson Silva sucks stance, but this is again stretching. You can't say how good Overeem is on the ground from years ago while then discounting how poor Overeem wilts under pressure... Or more specifically how he wilts when he gets hit hard.
good post.

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12-30-2012, 06:43 PM
  #591
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Because I REALLY want to see this as your AVI

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12-30-2012, 07:12 PM
  #592
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Because I REALLY want to see this as your AVI
Still too big. And if you wanted to choose my avatar then you should have put some pants on BEFORE the fight and got in on the bet.

You didnt, so

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12-30-2012, 07:13 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by m9 View Post
I doubt anyone is worried about Overeem's subs. Most of his subs have been against HW and LHW cans years ago. I know you like to focus your fight analysis on fights that happened years ago, ie your Anderson Silva sucks stance, but this is again stretching. You can't say how good Overeem is on the ground from years ago while then discounting how poor Overeem wilts under pressure... Or more specifically how he wilts when he gets hit hard.
True, but its funny, if you do the math JDS/Cain/Overeem have faced about the same percentage of cans or awful fighters as each other. So it all kinda evens out in terms of KOs/Subs lol.

Woah now, no need to put words into my mouth. My points about Anderson were how to possibly beat him and that he maybe wasn't top P4P(At the time it was discussed.), not that he sucks.


My current take on Cain/Overeem is almost totally based on current performance. I just added the subs in to show he's well rounded, unlike JDS.
If you mean that he used to wilt under pressure/getting hit hard then I'd totally agree you. Fights like the ones he had with Chuck and Shogun come to mind.
These days I've seen him take some pretty heavy shots and continue coming forward. Werdum caught him with some punches and knees, Duffee came out blazing and swinging(not that he had much aim lol).
It could be that he doesn't fear the striking of the MMA HWs after fighting more in K1. Seeing as how his run in K1 coincided with his MMA win streak/perma move to HW.


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12-30-2012, 07:33 PM
  #594
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12-30-2012, 07:49 PM
  #595
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If there's something to nit pick about Cain's game, it's his inability to keep guys down. Yes, I know small nit pick. With the way his GnP is, he leaves a lot of opening for guys to get up. JDS, Brock, Rothwell, and Kongo all were able to get while being under Cain's attack.

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12-30-2012, 07:50 PM
  #596
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True, but its funny, if you do the math JDS/Cain/Overeem have faced about the same percentage of cans or awful fighters as each other. So it all kinda evens out in terms of KOs/Subs lol.

Woah now, no need to put words into my mouth. My points about Anderson were how to possibly beat him and that he maybe wasn't top P4P(At the time it was discussed.), not that he sucks.


My current take on Cain/Overeem is almost totally based on current performance. I just added the subs in to show he's well rounded, unlike JDS.
If you mean that he used to wilt under pressure/getting hit hard then I'd totally agree you. Fights like the ones he had with Chuck and Shogun come to mind.
These days I've seen him take some pretty heavy shots and continue coming forward. Werdum caught him with some punches and knees, Duffee came out blazing and swinging(not that he had much aim lol).
It could be that he doesn't fear the striking of the MMA HWs after fighting more in K1. Seeing as how his run in K1 coincided with his MMA win streak/perma move to HW.
I just don't think Overeem's subs have any bearing on any fight that will take place against UFC competition and they need to be placed in proper context because of who they were against and when they happened. It's a disservice to people reading to play it off like he's a sub machine.

I'm going to avoid the Silva topic, my point was just that you have a habit of not placing fight results in the proper context and it is extremely frustrating to read.

The last point is the most interesting to me. I have no idea where Overeem's mindset in regards to being hit is these days. He does appear to be much more comfortable, and his confidence is probably through the roof. He has a ton more experience and I'm sure being built like a truck helps too.

However, his frame could lead to problems if Cain puts him on his back because it is much more difficult for him to get up. Until we see him survive a rough situation I'm still not confident he will fight through it based on his history.

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12-30-2012, 08:20 PM
  #597
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I just don't think Overeem's subs have any bearing on any fight that will take place against UFC competition and they need to be placed in proper context because of who they were against and when they happened. It's a disservice to people reading to play it off like he's a sub machine.

I'm going to avoid the Silva topic, my point was just that you have a habit of not placing fight results in the proper context and it is extremely frustrating to read.

The last point is the most interesting to me. I have no idea where Overeem's mindset in regards to being hit is these days. He does appear to be much more comfortable, and his confidence is probably through the roof. He has a ton more experience and I'm sure being built like a truck helps too.

However, his frame could lead to problems if Cain puts him on his back because it is much more difficult for him to get up. Until we see him survive a rough situation I'm still not confident he will fight through it based on his history.
Again I will say I didn't bring up the subs as "Omg Reem could totally sub Cain." just that on top of everything else that makes him dangerous he, imo, would have an edge in subbing Cain over most other guys in the HW, who don't make BJJ their main method of attack.
And to be perfectly honest, Overeem's subs are more based off of brute strength then technique anyway, so if he were to in fact catch Cain in a sub, he'd would have had to of left something really hanging out there.

Not sure how his frame will effect his ability to get up(He looked pretty agile sprawling against Werdum but he gassed then add another 2 round on top of that...who knows.), but I completely agree that all this could be for naught until he's totally tested.

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12-30-2012, 09:00 PM
  #598
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12-30-2012, 09:01 PM
  #599
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At the start of each round. Really puts it in perspective.

edit: Avs_19 beat me to the punch!

Double edit: looking past the sheer damage from round one to round two....you gotta look at the worry/fear in his face.

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12-30-2012, 10:35 PM
  #600
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I tried resizing them and while I'm pretty sure these fit the size requirements I still can't get them to work for the avatar, so if anyone could offer any assistance it would be much appreciated.


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