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Boone Jenner Suspended 3 Games For Hit on Pettersson (MOD WARNING #422)

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Old
12-24-2012, 04:17 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by canucksfan View Post
Your opinion is irrelevant. The IIHF controls the rules, you don't.
I'm not arguing that Jenner shouldn't be suspended according to the rules.

I'm arguing that the rules are bad and this highlights it.

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12-24-2012, 04:18 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
I'm of course biased. Why wouldn't I be?

But my interest in this isn't to defend Jenner, it's to defend hitting in hockey.



That's wrong. If I'm paying to watch a game, I don't want guys to swerve away just because they can. I want hits and I want guys actively trying to avoid hits after they pass the puck off even if it's been 1 second. I want forceful checks, not swerving out of the way. The trade off is that you can be out of position and be a defensive liability if you are simply going for big hits.

Safety in hockey needs to be focused on preventing head and neck injuries as well as learning how to have awareness and roll off of hits.
I want them to swerve away if the hit would be late and after the play is over.

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12-24-2012, 04:18 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by canucksfan View Post
Bob Mackenzie said it was around one second late. You are incorrect.
Bob Mackenzie said the hit was 30 digital frames from puck release, HD cameras are running around 36 frames per second and if a hit is allowed .5 seconds after release.. well you do the math.

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12-24-2012, 04:19 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Physical contact in hockey that doesn't involve the head or neck needs to be protected and encouraged, not discouraged.
.
Cool. Let's start running goalies since that is physical hockey that doesn't involve the head or neck. Heck, let's blindside guys as they are getting ready to take a faceoff.... as long as it isn't targeting the head or neck.

The FACT is that it is illegal to hit a player late after he has already passed the puck. It is illegal in the NHL and it is illegal in international hockey. Nobody with any sense wants to encourage that kind of hit, and I dare say that if Shea Weber hit Ryan Johansen with an illegal hit that knocked him out of the playoffs (insert joke here), you wouldn't be saying "I encourage that."

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12-24-2012, 04:19 PM
  #105
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Glad the IIHF put their foot down on this one.

It was a dirty, dirty play and a well deserved three game suspension.

This type of play has become a pattern among Canada's WJHC teams and I hope the IIHF starts dishing out stiffer and stiffer penalties until Hockey Canada decides to stop it with the nonsense thuggery.

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12-24-2012, 04:21 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
Bob Mackenzie said the hit was 30 digital frames from puck release, HD cameras are running around 36 frames per second and if a hit is allowed .5 seconds after release.. well you do the math.
Those are not the rules. See Hockey Canada's OWN video.

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12-24-2012, 04:21 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
Bob Mackenzie said the hit was 30 digital frames from puck release, HD cameras are running around 36 frames per second and if a hit is allowed .5 seconds after release.. well you do the math.
Source?

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12-24-2012, 04:22 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
Malicious intent is a bigger factor. Did the player go for the puck, miss it and then accidently trip the player? Did the play pull and Andrei Kostitsyn and puck his stick intentionally under the blade of a defender racing back for an icing? Two different plays, with different intent.
A trip is a trip going at full speed whether you go for the puck or not. If a player trips the guy and he gets seriously hurt does the same criteria apply? It should.. Does a player go out there to take a penalty? If the Swedish player doesn't get hurt its not a 5 game suspension let alone a 5 min major. A penalty is a penalty regardless of what happens.

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12-24-2012, 04:22 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
Those are not the rules. See Hockey Canada's OWN video.
check mate!

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12-24-2012, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
I'm not arguing that Jenner shouldn't be suspended according to the rules.

I'm arguing that the rules are bad and this highlights it.
I believe in the NHL this would be a deemed a late hit as well.

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12-24-2012, 04:22 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Michael Bolton View Post
How do you know he chirped him. Maybe he wanted to check if he was ok? Also, how was he injured?
OH yes, people spear others for asking if they are ok. Also he was laying face down on the ice after a hit to the head, its pretty safe to say theat everyone thought he was injured, whether he was or not.

Stop reaching, it's doing you no good.

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12-24-2012, 04:23 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Cool. Let's start running goalies since that is physical hockey that doesn't involve the head or neck. Heck, let's blindside guys as they are getting ready to take a faceoff.... as long as it isn't targeting the head or neck.

The FACT is that it is illegal to hit a player late after he has already passed the puck. It is illegal in the NHL and it is illegal in international hockey. Nobody with any sense wants to encourage that kind of hit, and I dare say that if Shea Weber hit Ryan Johansen with an illegal hit that knocked him out of the playoffs (insert joke here), you wouldn't be saying "I encourage that."
Why would you think I'm saying it's ok to hit anyone at any time?

I'm saying there needs to be greater leeway with what constitutes a "late hit." Physical play needs to be encouraged, not discouraged. Hockey organizations need to get off of the "safety at all costs!" bandwagon and let hockey be hockey.

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12-24-2012, 04:23 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
The rules of the game are that if you don't have the puck you are not eligible to be hit by an opposing player. Therefore players rightly do not have their head up looking to be hit at all times while on the ice. Petersson got rid of the puck and Jenner had more than ample time to see that and avoid contact with a player who did not have the puck. It wasn't slightly late, slightly late is Noesen's hit. The puck is gone in Noesen's hit, but because Noesen had already started hitting the player it wasn't late. (Of course it was illegal for other reasons) Jenner is at the top of the circle when Petersson releases the puck on the goaline. He hasn't plenty of time to avoid hitting a player who does not have the puck.
You must think very higly of a players decision making in a time of less than 2 seconds

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12-24-2012, 04:24 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by moko00 View Post
So if a player trips a guy going down the wing and he falls into the boards hard and dislocates a shoulder and breaks his wrist is that a 3 games suspension also? A penalty resulting in a major injury.
If, hypothetically, someone would intentionally trip someone at very high speed sending him into the boards without being able to brace for impact, that would be a very dangerous play and most likely suspendable.

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12-24-2012, 04:24 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
I'm of course biased. Why wouldn't I be?

But my interest in this isn't to defend Jenner, it's to defend hitting in hockey.



That's wrong. If I'm paying to watch a game, I don't want guys to swerve away just because they can. I want hits and I want guys actively trying to avoid hits after they pass the puck off even if it's been 1 second. I want forceful checks, not swerving out of the way. The trade off is that you can be out of position and be a defensive liability if you are simply going for big hits.

Safety in hockey needs to be focused on preventing head and neck injuries as well as learning how to have awareness and roll off of hits.
You should go back in your wayback machine to the writing of the hockey rule book and erase the penalty for interference. The idea that this long standing rule is some kind of soccer mom/communist plot to wussify hockey is a gigantic phallacy. It's been illegal to hit a guy late for a long time.

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12-24-2012, 04:25 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moko00 View Post
A trip is a trip going at full speed whether you go for the puck or not. If a player trips the guy and he gets seriously hurt does the same criteria apply? It should.. Does a player go out there to take a penalty? If the Swedish player doesn't get hurt its not a 5 game suspension let alone a 5 min major. A penalty is a penalty regardless of what happens.
A penalty is a penalty, but like in the real life legal world, intent is the major factor.

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12-24-2012, 04:26 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moko00 View Post
A trip is a trip going at full speed whether you go for the puck or not. If a player trips the guy and he gets seriously hurt does the same criteria apply? It should.. Does a player go out there to take a penalty? If the Swedish player doesn't get hurt its not a 5 game suspension let alone a 5 min major. A penalty is a penalty regardless of what happens.
A penalty is a penalty, but supplementary discipline takes into account things like intent and injury to a player. Seriously, did you not watch any of Shanny's videos last year?

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12-24-2012, 04:27 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
You should go back in your wayback machine to the writing of the hockey rule book and erase the penalty for interference. The idea that this long standing rule is some kind of soccer mom/communist plot to wussify hockey is a gigantic phallacy. It's been illegal to hit a guy late for a long time.
The amount of time given has changed and is too narrow a margin. The emphasis shouldn't be on avoidance so you don't hurt people. The emphasis should be on avoidance so you aren't out of position.

Further, the IIHF and NHL using player injury as a factor in discipline is absolutely ludicrous. Player injury is a very poor indicator of how illegal a hit was (or if it was even illegal to begin with). I don't like Shanahan's bans and haven't since he started. He should not try to guess a player's intent, he should only go by what physically transpired in the penalty.

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12-24-2012, 04:27 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
You must think very higly of a players decision making in a time of less than 2 seconds
If Boone Jenner cannot make hockey decisions in a split second then he wouldn't be at this level. He wouldn't even be in a beer league.

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12-24-2012, 04:27 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IIHF
b) A player who injures his opponent as a result of charging shall be assessed, at the
discretion of the Referee, a:
Major penalty + Automatic Game Misconduct penalty (5’+GM)
or
Match penalty (MP)
Quote:
Originally Posted by IIHF
“Charging" shall mean the action of a player who as a
result of distance travelled, shall violently check an
opponent. "Charging" shall be the result of a check into
the boards, into the goal or in open ice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IIHF
2. A player, who makes physical contact with an opponent
after the whistle has been blown, and if, in the opinion of
the Referee,the player had sufficient time after the whistle to avoid such contact, shall be assessed, at the discretion of the Referee, a penalty for "Charging".
From what I can tell, there is no mention of how long a player has before the hit is deemed to be late. The only thing that does mention that is talking about after the whistle, where it's up to the referee if the hitter had ample time to avoid making contact.

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12-24-2012, 04:28 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
A penalty is a penalty, but like in the real life legal world, intent is the major factor.
But it's not intent here that is making Jenner miss 3 games, it the result. Nothing about Jenners hit shows intent to injure, it just shows ad timing and poor decision making, just like most 2 minute penalties.

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12-24-2012, 04:29 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
But it's not intent here that is making Jenner miss 3 games, it the result. Nothing about Jenners hit shows intent to injure, it just shows ad timing and poor decision making, just like most 2 minute penalties.
Hitting someone without the puck is intending to injure someone. If he has the puck you can make the argument that he is attempting to separate the man from the puck. In this case, what is Jenner trying to do with his hit? What is his intent?

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12-24-2012, 04:29 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
OH yes, people spear others for asking if they are ok. Also he was laying face down on the ice after a hit to the head, its pretty safe to say theat everyone thought he was injured, whether he was or not.

Stop reaching, it's doing you no good.
He was up when he speared the Kuznetsov. And you have no idea what was said. You spear people when you're emotionally charged and angry. Actually, I would never spear somebody regardless of what was said, but that's just me

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12-24-2012, 04:29 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
Those are not the rules. See Hockey Canada's OWN video.
That has the best criteria I've yet seen, about as clear and unambiguous as something like this can get.

And this hit violates it by an extreme amount.

Game, set, match.

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12-24-2012, 04:30 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
If Boone Jenner cannot make hockey decisions in a split second then he wouldn't be at this level. He wouldn't even be in a beer league.
I bet he can as can most player playing at this league. The problem is that the IIHF thinks he made the wrong decision to finish his check. If I were his coach Spott, I would have patted him on the back and spoke highly of his grit and willingness to play physically. If the IIHF then went after him, I'd have said that I told him to play more physically and set the tone for the team.

Give him a charging or interference penalty. Maybe give him a major and have some Swedish player fight him or go after him. But IMO that should have been it.

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