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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Tournament Attendance

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Old
12-26-2012, 12:54 PM
  #51
LSnow
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
No reason to relegate two teams.
No relegation would kill the world champion out of the tournament.

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12-26-2012, 01:25 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by LSnow View Post
No relegation would kill the world champion out of the tournament.
What? There is a middle ground between relegating two teams and not relegating anybody. Not sure what kill the world champion out of the tournament means.

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12-26-2012, 01:37 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
The same 4 that are biggest favorites every year... More parity at World Hockey Championships and Olympics.
WHC has more parity because there are less quality Canadian players at it.

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12-26-2012, 01:37 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
What? There is a middle ground between relegating two teams and not relegating anybody. Not sure what kill the world champion out of the tournament means.
I meant that it woulnd be a real world championship tournament if lower teams didn't have a chance to get promoted.

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12-26-2012, 01:52 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Thats what happens when you have the best available. The strongest nations talentwise will always be favoured.

Olympics more parity?
More like the those with the biggest talentpool.

Yes, Olympics have had more parity. Just ask Sweden who in addition to winning have been knocked out by Finland, Belarus and Slovakia.


Last edited by Jussi: 12-26-2012 at 07:30 PM.
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12-26-2012, 01:57 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
More like the those with the biggest talentpool.

Yes, Olympics have had more parity. Just ask Sweden whi in addition to winning have been knocked out by Finland, Belarus and Slovakia.
Yes hence why i said strongest.

The same teams win the olympics every year just like the juniors. No advantage in parity for the olympics.

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12-26-2012, 07:31 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Yes hence why i said strongest.

The same teams win the olympics every year just like the juniors. No advantage in parity for the olympics.
Except Czech Rep aren't exactly a contender in the WJC these days where as on the senior level they are.

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Old
12-26-2012, 08:43 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Dynamo81 View Post
Last time it was in Sweden (2007) the average attendance was 2k.
To be fair, it was played in this little village in the middle of Sweden with a popluation of like 6k, if even that. The tournament didn't really get any media exposure at that time either. I think the first real coverage came in '08 with a proper team going over to Canada to basically air all the games and do all around coverage of the tournament (which was amazingly awesome and alot of people got hooked), and at the same time the media started to give it alot more exposure.

The interest and exposure have grown alot since then, so the potential for good attendance is there. But they totally butchered it by putting the tournament in Malmö. It's not a hockey town, the town has a really bad reputation and honestly I know no one that would want to travel down to Malmö during the holidays to watch a game or two. I don't buy the whole "Malmö is close to Denmark, Germany etc etc" because I doubt the WJC attracts that many people from those kind of countries, during christmas times on top of that.

I bet they put it there to show off the good looking arena they built a couple of years ago (while being pretty naive about the people from european countries taking the boat over to Malmö or whatever), too bad the size of it will only get some what used when Sweden plays an important match against a good team. If the tickets are dirt cheap I guess a game like Canada - USA can attract an okay crowd, but other than that it will be pathetic all over again.

I'm crossing my fingers for an awesome outcome even if the situation looks pretty ****** from what could have been something really great.

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12-26-2012, 09:35 PM
  #59
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Switzerland puts Russia to shame: the Spengler Cup game between Canada and Mannheim was full of cheering fans. The Swiss have nearly 90 years of cup tourney fan support. The Russians have a lesser history and lesser apparent fan support for non-national teams it seems. Russia is like the USA of hockey. I get the impression that Sweden, Finland, Switzerland and to some extent my Canada have a lot of fans of the sport INDEPENDENT of the national team: a true sign of love of the sport imo.

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12-26-2012, 10:27 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Switzerland puts Russia to shame: the Spengler Cup game between Canada and Mannheim was full of cheering fans. The Swiss have nearly 90 years of cup tourney fan support. The Russians have a lesser history and lesser apparent fan support for non-national teams it seems. Russia is like the USA of hockey. I get the impression that Sweden, Finland, Switzerland and to some extent my Canada have a lot of fans of the sport INDEPENDENT of the national team: a true sign of love of the sport imo.
how do you gauge this non-national team support? based on attendance to the Russian teams' games at the Spengler cup?

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12-26-2012, 10:47 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
Is the point that the WORLD JUNIOR CHAMPIONSHIPS be held in Canada every year because of attendance?
Pretty much. It's all about money and every time it's held in Canada, games are sold out for the most part, even when Canada isn't playing. It's why it's held there so much. People are going to show up. Buildings are packed. It's what you want. It means more money. It's win win for everyone except every other Country who has to travel a hell of a long way. lol. But that's obviously not an excuse seeing as Canada hasn't won gold for 3 straight years.

As for the competition. Teams are getting better and better every year. Besides Canada, Russia, Sweden, Finland, USA all easily have a chance at winning gold this year. Hell even Slovakia are improving every year. Better competition means more intense and close games. It's great!


Last edited by KClovesGaming: 12-26-2012 at 10:52 PM.
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12-26-2012, 11:06 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by sTyLnK View Post
Pretty much. It's all about money and every time it's held in Canada, games are sold out for the most part, even when Canada isn't playing. It's why it's held there so much. People are going to show up. Buildings are packed. It's what you want. It means more money. It's win win for everyone except every other Country who has to travel a hell of a long way. lol. But that's obviously not an excuse seeing as Canada hasn't won gold for 3 straight years.

As for the competition. Teams are getting better and better every year. Besides Canada, Russia, Sweden, Finland, USA all easily have a chance at winning gold this year. Hell even Slovakia are improving every year. Better competition means more intense and close games. It's great!
In the last 10 years of WJC hockey:
7 tournaments held in North America
7 North American gold medalists
4 different gold medalists (Canada (5), USA (2), Russia (2), Sweden(1))

Overall medals by country in last 10 years:
Canada (10)
Russia (8)
US (4)
Sweden (4)
Finland (3)
Czech Republic (1)

The game is growing alright.

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Old
12-26-2012, 11:16 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Switzerland puts Russia to shame: the Spengler Cup game between Canada and Mannheim was full of cheering fans. The Swiss have nearly 90 years of cup tourney fan support. The Russians have a lesser history and lesser apparent fan support for non-national teams it seems. Russia is like the USA of hockey. I get the impression that Sweden, Finland, Switzerland and to some extent my Canada have a lot of fans of the sport INDEPENDENT of the national team: a true sign of love of the sport imo.
You can't compare the Spengler Cup with the WJC.

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12-27-2012, 12:59 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sTyLnK View Post
Pretty much. It's all about money and every time it's held in Canada, games are sold out for the most part, even when Canada isn't playing. It's why it's held there so much. People are going to show up. Buildings are packed. It's what you want. It means more money. It's win win for everyone except every other Country who has to travel a hell of a long way. lol. But that's obviously not an excuse seeing as Canada hasn't won gold for 3 straight years.

As for the competition. Teams are getting better and better every year. Besides Canada, Russia, Sweden, Finland, USA all easily have a chance at winning gold this year. Hell even Slovakia are improving every year. Better competition means more intense and close games. It's great!
If you want that, I'd prefer that the rest of the world not bother showing up. Canada can crown itself champion of Canada.

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12-27-2012, 01:12 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
If you want that, I'd prefer that the rest of the world not bother showing up. Canada can crown itself champion of Canada.
Good thing hockey players have a passion for their sport and will play regardless of your preferences.

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12-27-2012, 01:18 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Good thing hockey players have a passion for their sport and will play regardless of your preferences.
Good thing the people in charge have a strong reasoning ability and will host the tournament in different countries regardless of your preferences.

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12-27-2012, 01:26 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
Good thing the people in charge have a strong reasoning ability and will host the tournament in different countries regardless of your preferences.
Actually I could care less where the tournament is hosted. I care more about the hockey. As do the players.

However the complaint that they need to host it in different countries (too promote the game etc) is a non-starter because if people really cared about hosting it in different countries theyd be pushing for it to be held in places like Asia.

Like I said im glad the player play for the game.

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12-27-2012, 01:30 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Actually I could care less where the tournament is hosted. I care more about the hockey. As do the players.

However the complaint that they need to host it in different countries (too promote the game etc) is a non-starter because if people really cared about hosting it in different countries theyd be pushing for it to be held in places like Asia.

Like I said im glad the player play for the game.
That is a real reduction to the absurd. Any cursory attempt to understand sports marketing would realize that in a place where a sport is not very popular, sending in amateur players is not going to be very effective. However where the sport is already popular, and you want to generate interest in a different tournament, then you need to bring it to people. Sending the U20 tournament to Asia where the full professional game is not popular makes zero sense.

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12-27-2012, 01:39 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
That is a real reduction to the absurd. Any cursory attempt to understand sports marketing would realize that in a place where a sport is not very popular, sending in amateur players is not going to be very effective. However where the sport is already popular, and you want to generate interest in a different tournament, then you need to bring it to people. Sending the U20 tournament to Asia where the full professional game is not popular makes zero sense.
Not at all.

Actually it makes a lot of sense if you are attempting to "grow the game" and dont much care about attendance.

I live in the middle east and teams like the UAE, Kuwait etc have teams. The UAE also has a league (a requirement for their national team to play against) and its growing.

If the argument is that this tourney needs to be held in other places (not Canada) to promote the game then do so in places where it is fast growing. Places that do not get a sniff of high level talent.

Growth in places like Russia as in Canada are closer to saturation point then places like Asia, Middle East or Australia.

These Jrs may be amateurs but these tourneys are one of the few places you can see all the top level talent in one spot. They may not get paid but the talent level is fantastic. Compared to say the spengler cup etc.


Again if your argument is for holding the tourney in other countries to promote growth.

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12-27-2012, 07:30 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
I've said before I don't think it benefits teams like Germany or Denmark to be at this level and we could probably drop it by two teams and then have D-1A be a bit more balanced for teams like Germany, Latvia, Denmark etc.
How are they supposed to get better if they don't play better competition? If anything, the WJC needs MORE teams so that these teams that bounce back and forth can actually stay up and make some progress for once, instead of only playing good competition every other year.

If playing at the top level didn't help them then they would lose on purpose to get relegated back to easier competition, where they would also lose on purpose so they don't get promoted. But obviously that doesn't make sense, and neither does the idea that playing top competition somehow doesn't benefit you. You don't learn anything by beating up on D2 teams. You learn far more from playing the best, even if you get blown out.

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12-27-2012, 07:36 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Not at all.

Actually it makes a lot of sense if you are attempting to "grow the game" and dont much care about attendance.

I live in the middle east and teams like the UAE, Kuwait etc have teams. The UAE also has a league (a requirement for their national team to play against) and its growing.

If the argument is that this tourney needs to be held in other places (not Canada) to promote the game then do so in places where it is fast growing. Places that do not get a sniff of high level talent.

Growth in places like Russia as in Canada are closer to saturation point then places like Asia, Middle East or Australia.

These Jrs may be amateurs but these tourneys are one of the few places you can see all the top level talent in one spot. They may not get paid but the talent level is fantastic. Compared to say the spengler cup etc.


Again if your argument is for holding the tourney in other countries to promote growth.
You do realize Spengler cup teams would destroy any junior team, right?

People don't even care about junior hockey in "hockey countries", so it doesn't make much sense to use it as a marketing tool in non-hockey countries. The Senior tournament would make far more sense, as those are the real national teams. People in Asia would see "junior" and immediately write it off as unimportant.

However, in Russia and Sweden, which ARE hockey countries, this is a very marketable competition. It's not the biggest hockey tournament in the world, but it can still do well in those countries if promoted right like TSN has done for it in Canada.

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12-27-2012, 08:21 AM
  #72
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The WJHC is the most overrated hockey competition in the world by Canadians.
Sure the action is good...if you watch Team Canada... but the lack of parity is a real killer for me and others. Honestly, when I see how little some countries care about this tourney (like today against Germany; I mean in terms of fans btw) I lose absolutely all interest. Why invest if your opponent doesnt?

Did you know that China has the most World Ping Pong Tournament Gold medals in history??? No???? Well guess what, only a tiny minority outside Canada even knows we HAVE medals in world junior hockey. Such prestige! Such bragging rights! Nope.

World Hockey Championship and Olympics are the only hockey tournaments that deserve international hype in my honest opinion.

When World Junior hockey reaches a level of parity where fan interest and team competitiveness approaches some level of consistency in all countries ( a long and arduous process which will require many more hostings in Europe, and much better development and support for junior programs), will it be acceptable to place it alongside the aforementioned tournaments.
Overhyped yes, over rated, I disagree

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12-27-2012, 08:30 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Not at all.

Actually it makes a lot of sense if you are attempting to "grow the game" and dont much care about attendance.

I live in the middle east and teams like the UAE, Kuwait etc have teams. The UAE also has a league (a requirement for their national team to play against) and its growing.

If the argument is that this tourney needs to be held in other places (not Canada) to promote the game then do so in places where it is fast growing. Places that do not get a sniff of high level talent.

Growth in places like Russia as in Canada are closer to saturation point then places like Asia, Middle East or Australia.

These Jrs may be amateurs but these tourneys are one of the few places you can see all the top level talent in one spot. They may not get paid but the talent level is fantastic. Compared to say the spengler cup etc.


Again if your argument is for holding the tourney in other countries to promote growth.

Promote the tournament.

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12-27-2012, 08:31 AM
  #74
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How are they supposed to get better if they don't play better competition? If anything, the WJC needs MORE teams so that these teams that bounce back and forth can actually stay up and make some progress for once, instead of only playing good competition every other year.

If playing at the top level didn't help them then they would lose on purpose to get relegated back to easier competition, where they would also lose on purpose so they don't get promoted. But obviously that doesn't make sense, and neither does the idea that playing top competition somehow doesn't benefit you. You don't learn anything by beating up on D2 teams. You learn far more from playing the best, even if you get blown out.
They aren't going to get better based on a couple of U20 games. To get better they need better players which requires investment by the host country.

Germany, Denmark, Latvia, Norway etc aren't going to be beating each other up to the same degree that we are seeing today with the US or yesterday with Canada vs the US.

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12-27-2012, 09:18 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by EdTheSabresFan View Post
The WJHC is the most overrated hockey competition in the world by Canadians.
Sure the action is good...if you watch Team Canada... but the lack of parity is a real killer for me and others. Honestly, when I see how little some countries care about this tourney (like today against Germany; I mean in terms of fans btw) I lose absolutely all interest. Why invest if your opponent doesnt?

Did you know that China has the most World Ping Pong Tournament Gold medals in history??? No???? Well guess what, only a tiny minority outside Canada even knows we HAVE medals in world junior hockey. Such prestige! Such bragging rights! Nope.

World Hockey Championship and Olympics are the only hockey tournaments that deserve international hype in my honest opinion.

When World Junior hockey reaches a level of parity where fan interest and team competitiveness approaches some level of consistency in all countries ( a long and arduous process which will require many more hostings in Europe, and much better development and support for junior programs), will it be acceptable to place it alongside the aforementioned tournaments.
Have to agree with you.
I have always been amazed how this tournament gets raised so high in these forums. Floorball is nearing the amount of attendees of the tournament over here.
Actually floorball is quite good analogy to this tournament. I'm sure absolutely anybody knows about the sport outside of the couple of hot spots. The tournament is really just between Finland and Sweden every single year. Finals gather full 13 000 arenas.


But after all that trolling. I will say i personally quite enjoy the tournament.

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