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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Anyone else just not care...

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Old
12-26-2012, 11:53 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Statsy View Post
This tournament can have that effect on people, for those that actually pay attention to it.
As can any other tournament.

Look, there's nothing wrong with following the WJC over the real WC, but that's like following the AHL over the NHL: nothing wrong with that but you're still expected to realise that the NHL is better hockey.

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12-26-2012, 11:55 AM
  #52
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You guys are ridiculous, this tournament easily brings the most entertaining games of the year, I don't know how u guys can not like this. Easily best tournament next to the Olympics

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Old
12-26-2012, 12:02 PM
  #53
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Look, there's nothing wrong with following the WJC over the real WC, but that's like following the AHL over the NHL: nothing wrong with that but you're still expected to realise that the NHL is better hockey.
I would take a bunch of U20 kids, playing their hearts out, over a bunch of NHL players, who did not make the playoffs and don't care about the WC, any day of the week.

The WC fans need to keep telling themselves that their tournament is not losing importance. They need to convince themselves that they are supporting a competition that is still relevant and growing - but we all know otherwise. I would expect those fans to know better - but to each their own.

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12-26-2012, 12:04 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
I would take a bunch of U20 kids, playing their hearts out, over a bunch of NHL players, who did not make the playoffs and don't care about the WC, any day of the week.

The WC fans need to keep telling themselves that their tournament is not losing importance. They need to convince themselves that they are supporting a competition that is still relevant and growing - but we all know otherwise. I would expect those fans to know better - but to each their own.
Yup.

**** look at most of the Canadian rosters and they are the dregs.

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12-26-2012, 12:05 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
I would take a bunch of U20 kids, playing their hearts out, over a bunch of NHL players, who did not make the playoffs and don't care about the WC, any day of the week.
Players who don't care about the WC are not at the WC.

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12-26-2012, 12:12 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Yup.

**** look at most of the Canadian rosters and they are the dregs.
If one was to chart the growth of the 2 tournaments over the last 20 years, they would be going in different directions. The WC has lost much of its shine - especially during Olympic years.

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Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
Players who don't care about the WC are not at the WC.
I disagree given the fact that Canada and the US have to beg their players to attend.

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12-26-2012, 12:16 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
If you were to chart the growth of the 2 tournaments over the last 20 years, they would be going in different directions. The WC has lost much of its shine - especially during Olympic years.



I disagree given the fact that Canada and the US have to beg their players to attend.
The only time ive been terribly interested in the World Cup is when it was soviets and canada.

I like it for hockey but its never the best talent and frankly boring compared to olympics and jrs.

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12-26-2012, 12:18 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
If you were to chart the growth of the 2 tournaments over the last 20 years, they would be going in different directions. The WC has lost much of its shine - especially during Olympic years.
The WC has not really lost any of its shine, it was never any bigger than it is now, while the WJC has probably been growing.

That says absolutely nothing about the respective levels of both tournaments, though.

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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
I disagree given the fact that Canada and the US have to beg their players to attend.
It doesn't follow that those who do attend don't care.

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12-26-2012, 12:18 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
The only time ive been terribly interested in the World Cup is when it was soviets and canada.

I like it for hockey but its never the best talent and frankly boring compared to olympics and jrs.
I agree, 100%.


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12-26-2012, 12:23 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
The WC has not really lost any of its shine, it was never any bigger than it is now, while the WJC has probably been growing.

That says absolutely nothing about the respective levels of both tournaments, though.
I disagree...

There was a time when the WC were considered the pinnacle for 80%+ of the hockey playing planet. Now, does anyone put it on the same level as the Olympics or the Stanley Cup - OR in the case of North American, the World Juniors?

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Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
It doesn't follow that those who do attend don't care.
Canada and the U.S. will use the carrot of Olympic participation to blackmail players into going to the WC.

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12-26-2012, 12:27 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
Look, there's nothing wrong with following the WJC over the real WC, but that's like following the AHL over the NHL: nothing wrong with that but you're still expected to realise that the NHL is better hockey.
Hold on a minute there! Nobody is saying this level of hockey is higher than the NHL. It's not even close. But what we're talking about is ENTERTAINMENT VALUE, which you don't seem to understand. And I'm not talking about a Canada/Germany game or Russia/Latvia, though you do have to put up with a few of those. But how many Canada/USA New Year's Eve games have you seen? Or Canada/Russia who always put on an amazing show? My guess is you probably haven't watched very much of this tournament at all, and haven't seen any of those amazing games, but I have and so have the others who love the WJC as much as I do.

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12-26-2012, 12:30 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
I disagree...

There was a time when the WC were considered the pinnacle for 80%+ of the hockey playing planet.
Yeah but NA still disregarded it as they do now. Hell Canada didn't even bother to participate for a few years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
Now, does anyone put it on the same level as the Olympics or the Stanley Cup - OR in the case of North American, the World Juniors?
I don't put the WC on the same level as the Stanley Cup, clearly the WC are more important.

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12-26-2012, 12:33 PM
  #63
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I don't put the WC on the same level as the Stanley Cup, clearly the WC are more important.
Fair enough.

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12-26-2012, 12:35 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Statsy View Post
Hold on a minute there! Nobody is saying this level of hockey is higher than the NHL. It's not even close. But what we're talking about is ENTERTAINMENT VALUE, which you don't seem to understand. And I'm not talking about a Canada/Germany game or Russia/Latvia, though you do have to put up with a few of those. But how many Canada/USA New Year's Eve games have you seen? Or Canada/Russia who always put on an amazing show? My guess is you probably haven't watched very much of this tournament at all, and haven't seen any of those amazing games, but I have and so have the others who love the WJC as much as I do.
I agree with this. There will always be bad games in every tournament (today's Canada-Germany game would be of little interest to anyone but Canadians and Germans) but at the WC, you have to sit thru a week of garbage just to get to a game you might want to watch.

The WJ's are amazing.

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12-26-2012, 12:37 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by The Last Dynasty View Post
didn't the Jays just outspend the AL East to try to contend?

anyways, why is watching Blue Jays baseball or a 2nd rate WHC more "important" than the World Jrs.?

the World Jrs. are popular for many reasons IMO:

1. Holiday season, people are more inclined to sit with family and friends to watch hockey
2. Ultra competitive. Beats the "dog days" of the NHL season...are you gonna watch a Stars-Blue Jackets game or Canada-Germany? Russia-Slovakia? Frankly, I love watching a balls-to-the-wall Canadian squad going for gold.
3. TSN Hype. Good or bad, they've sold this tourny....much like the American networks have sold NFL football every Sunday.
BECAUSE ITS NOT INTERNATIONALLY RESPECTED. It's not cared about OUTSIDE CANADA. The importance, whether you choose to accept it or not, comes from international knowledge and support. The World Cup of Soccer is the primeval archetype of this logical reasoning. The closer you get to the World Cup in terms of fan support and relative parity, the better your tournament is from an international perspective. The WHC is the closest thing hockey currently has to that (outside Olympic winter hockey).

World juniors: not even close.

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12-26-2012, 12:41 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
I agree with this. There will always be bad games in every tournament (today's Canada-Germany game would be of little interest to anyone but Canadians and Germans) but at the WC, you have to sit thru a week of garbage just to get to a game you might want to watch.

The WJ's are amazing.
And also not Germans.

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12-26-2012, 12:42 PM
  #67
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I would rather watch it over the NHL.
+1

Especially mid season NHL games.

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12-26-2012, 12:42 PM
  #68
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BECAUSE ITS NOT INTERNATIONALLY RESPECTED. It's not cared about OUTSIDE CANADA. The importance, whether you choose to accept it or not, comes from international knowledge and support. The World Cup of Soccer is the primeval archetype of this logical reasoning. The closer you get to the World Cup in terms of fan support and relative parity, the better your tournament is from an international perspective. The WHC is the closest thing hockey currently has to that (outside Olympic winter hockey).

World juniors: not even close.
Okay... so don't watch. We wouldn't want to waste your valuable (viewing or blogging) time on something so frivolous.

Again, I promise, we will not miss you at all.

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12-26-2012, 12:45 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Statsy View Post
Hold on a minute there! Nobody is saying this level of hockey is higher than the NHL. It's not even close. But what we're talking about is ENTERTAINMENT VALUE, which you don't seem to understand. And I'm not talking about a Canada/Germany game or Russia/Latvia, though you do have to put up with a few of those. But how many Canada/USA New Year's Eve games have you seen? Or Canada/Russia who always put on an amazing show? My guess is you probably haven't watched very much of this tournament at all, and haven't seen any of those amazing games, but I have and so have the others who love the WJC as much as I do.

Some of the most entertaining hockey has happened the past few years.

Canada-Russia 2009
Canada-Russia 2011
Canada-Russia 2012
Canada-USA 2010 (Both games)
Canada-USA 2004
Canada-USA 2007

Just some really outstanding games with more passion than you get just about anywhere.

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12-26-2012, 12:45 PM
  #70
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Hold on a minute there! Nobody is saying this level of hockey is higher than the NHL.
If suggest you read my post again and pay a little more attention, if you do you'll see I certainly didn't compare the WJC to the NHL.

I'll rephrase it and try to keep it simple for you: the WJC is to the real WC what the AHL is to the NHL, an objectively inferior product that some people might still prefer for various, perfectly respectable reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Statsy View Post
It's not even close. But what we're talking about is ENTERTAINMENT VALUE, which you don't seem to understand. And I'm not talking about a Canada/Germany game or Russia/Latvia, though you do have to put up with a few of those. But how many Canada/USA New Year's Eve games have you seen? Or Canada/Russia who always put on an amazing show? My guess is you probably haven't watched very much of this tournament at all, and haven't seen any of those amazing games, but I have and so have the others who love the WJC as much as I do.
You did not explain how the WJC's ENTERTAINMENT VALUE is any better than that of any other tournament. You didn't because it isn't. What is entertaining to you will not be to somebody else and vice versa.

I mean it's not like the WJC are even unpredictable or don't have a lot of blowouts, though admittedly some people might find that entertaining.

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12-26-2012, 12:47 PM
  #71
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...about the WJCs, or under-20 tournament (as the rest of the world calls it)? I'll try again this year, but I just don't get the love. I never understood how this tournament seems to take precedence over the real WCs.

I don't know, maybe it's the sloppy play, or any of a number of factors, but this time of year I always feel terribly underwhelmed by it. I'm also interested that it seems to be a hockey-only phenomena, the "junior" World Cups that FIFA puts on aren't nearly as hyped and those are only every 4 years.

Only one who feels like this?
You're not a fan of it. That's fine. No need trying to over-analyze why you're not. You're an NHL fan, more than an actual hockey fan. Nothing wrong with that. Just accept it and move on.

Weird thread.

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12-26-2012, 12:49 PM
  #72
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Okay... so don't watch. We wouldn't want to waste your valuable (viewing or blogging) time on something so frivolous.

Again, I promise, we will not miss you at all.
Oh I'm not going anywhere, trolling you guys is more fun than sin.

In all seriousness, I do watch the WJC, WC, NHL, KHL, and a host of others. I WANT the WJC to succeed, I just don't think it's a very meaningful tournament right now especially compared to any other international tournament. What irritates me is when Canada fans think they've conquered the planet after winning gold here... The WC gets no love, the men's soccer team gets no love (does anyone even know what the team scores were earlier this summer leading up to its elimination?), despite the fact that they compete in much more prestigious events.... I mean wouldn't you rather cheer for Canada's team in something where they're not basically GUARANTEED a medal. I dunno about you but today's Germany game was a snoozer beyond snoozing. I don't think I'll be excited for any game until the medal rounds actually now that I think about it.... US will roll over, Slovakia will roll over, I doubt Russia will be that much work when it really comes down to it. Yah sure things get tight in the medals when Russia pulls rabbits from its bottom to score lucky goals and win fluke victories over Canada, but honestly we've won so many gold medals now, its more FUN to cheer against Canada from the perspective of hockey tension. We all watch sports because of the tension, where is the tension when Canada scores at will and noone else is watching except you?

Understand what i'm saying?


Last edited by Cowbell232: 12-26-2012 at 02:16 PM.
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12-26-2012, 12:49 PM
  #73
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You're not a fan of it. That's fine. No need trying to over-analyze why you're not. You're an NHL fan, more than an actual hockey fan. Nothing wrong with that. Just accept it and move on.

Weird thread.
Weird assumption that person is not a "hockey" fan if he doesn't really care for WJC.

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12-26-2012, 12:54 PM
  #74
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Oh I'm not going anywhere, trolling you guys is more fun than sin. ?
Finally, a moment of truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdTheSabresFan View Post
In all seriousness, I do watch the WJC, WC, NHL, KHL, and a host of others. I WANT the WJC to succeed, I just don't think it's a very meaningful tournament right now especially compared to any other international tournament. What irritates me is when Canada fans think they've conquered the planet after winning gold here...The WC gets no love, the men's soccer team gets no love (does anyone even know what the team scores were earlier this summer leading up to its elimination?), despite the fact that they compete in much more prestigious events....

Understand what i'm saying?
I understand that you are blessed to have so much time on your hands - you are a lucky young man! Too bad you have so much anger in your life but hopefully that will go away with age.

However, for me, this Christmas tournament is just about all the free time I have and I like to enjoy it without others feeling the need (in the hope of being the centre of attention) to dismiss it. It is a shame. Sad, really. Oh well, to each their own.


Last edited by Cowbell232: 12-26-2012 at 02:16 PM.
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12-26-2012, 12:56 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
However, for me, this Christmas tournament is just about all the free time I have and I like to enjoy it without others feeling the need (in the hope of being the centre of attention) to dismiss it. It is a shame that some posters feel that need. Sad, really. Oh well, to each their own. I was not put on this earth to judge.
As you said to me, you don't need to be here.

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