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2013 WJC Thread - USA! USA! USA!

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01-06-2013, 12:37 AM
  #226
jmelm
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Scott Harrington

By the way, I just want to use this as an example, since I have been called out by some for suggesting that Harrington has "untapped" offensive upside, even though he hasn't put up those numbers in juniors.


If you watch the Brett Ritchie goal today -- and if someone has it, post the video from when the play starts with Harrington pinching at the point -- you will see Harrington drive all the way down to the front of the net where he is looking for a goal, like a winger would. And no, Canada wasn't down by 3-4 goals where Harrington (or anyone) would just make a crazy-risky play. What he did here was recognize that he was the Dman on that particular play/shift that was going to be the guy joining the play and saw an opening. He made that goal happen.


So I just wanted to point this out as an example of the types of things I've seen from him before that lead me to my conclusion. Think about some of our other "stay at home" or "shutdown" defensive Dman that we have or have had on this team in recent years. I cannot remember the last time I saw Brooks Orpik or Rob Scuderi pinch in all the way down and then drive to the front of the opposing net trying to score a goal. Harrington doesn't do this quite as often as I would like; but I would like to see him do this just a little bit more, because he has such good hockey sense that when he makes these plays to do this, 9 times out of 10 he makes great plays and great reads, just like he does defensively.


Again, I'm not saying he's going to put up huge numbers, but this is why I think he can be a 30 or even 35 point guy, especially with how this Pens team likes to play. Pair him with a guy who is more defensive, and you will see this that much more often. Now, I think he's ready to play in the NHL next year, but if he doesn't, this is the part of his game that I would like to see developed a bit more if he spends any time in the AHL.

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01-06-2013, 12:48 AM
  #227
Sidney the Kidney
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Offensive ceiling production-wise, I lean more toward similar to Paul Martin - the Pens' version, for Scott Harrington's upside. Probably score a couple more goals than Martin's noodle arm is capable of, but around similar output in the 25 or so point range.

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01-06-2013, 01:05 AM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
By the way, I just want to use this as an example, since I have been called out by some for suggesting that Harrington has "untapped" offensive upside, even though he hasn't put up those numbers in juniors.


If you watch the Brett Ritchie goal today -- and if someone has it, post the video from when the play starts with Harrington pinching at the point -- you will see Harrington drive all the way down to the front of the net where he is looking for a goal, like a winger would. And no, Canada wasn't down by 3-4 goals where Harrington (or anyone) would just make a crazy-risky play. What he did here was recognize that he was the Dman on that particular play/shift that was going to be the guy joining the play and saw an opening. He made that goal happen.


So I just wanted to point this out as an example of the types of things I've seen from him before that lead me to my conclusion. Think about some of our other "stay at home" or "shutdown" defensive Dman that we have or have had on this team in recent years. I cannot remember the last time I saw Brooks Orpik or Rob Scuderi pinch in all the way down and then drive to the front of the opposing net trying to score a goal. Harrington doesn't do this quite as often as I would like; but I would like to see him do this just a little bit more, because he has such good hockey sense that when he makes these plays to do this, 9 times out of 10 he makes great plays and great reads, just like he does defensively.


Again, I'm not saying he's going to put up huge numbers, but this is why I think he can be a 30 or even 35 point guy, especially with how this Pens team likes to play. Pair him with a guy who is more defensive, and you will see this that much more often. Now, I think he's ready to play in the NHL next year, but if he doesn't, this is the part of his game that I would like to see developed a bit more if he spends any time in the AHL.
I think you're grasping for straws.

Harrington has displayed that he's capable of joining the rush/having offensive instincts. However, it is unlikely for these attributes to translate. Plus, it's not like the Pens are grooming him to be this type of player. He's a blend of Eaton and Scuderi IMO or a Paul Martin type of player (in NJ). He's closer to a TWD than a DFD, but he won't be groomed as the former.

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01-06-2013, 01:08 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
The best thing about winning the tournament is how crazy it drives patriotic/xenophobic Canadians.

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01-06-2013, 06:02 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
He was good and I won't lie I'd love to have him in our prospect pool. But I agree there has been a couple of Swedes that were better, I was really impressed with Collberg
Don't get me wrong, I like Forsberg but I just don't see an overly high end player. I think he'll be good not great. More Franzen than Iggy. Elias Lindholm is the player on that SWE squad thats got star potential. Wennberg should be more reachable for the Pens though... mid to late first round.

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01-06-2013, 08:16 AM
  #231
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I gotta say I liked De La Rose's tenacity, he's not going to be a superstar but he could be a good complementary player ala Kunitz style.

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01-06-2013, 09:17 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by #66 View Post
Don't get me wrong, I like Forsberg but I just don't see an overly high end player. I think he'll be good not great. More Franzen than Iggy. Elias Lindholm is the player on that SWE squad thats got star potential. Wennberg should be more reachable for the Pens though... mid to late first round.
I really like Wennberg too. And I know he's tiny but Arvidsson really stood out to me as well.

I think there are a lot of things to like about Forsberg but I'm also not shocked that he fell a bit in the draft (and this is coming from someone who really likes him). He was compared a lot to Landeskog prior to the draft but his game is really, really different. It really seems like he has to have the puck to be effective, and he really struggled against pros in his draft season. I really don't know if his style would have fit our game at all.

[q]I gotta say I liked De La Rose's tenacity, he's not going to be a superstar but he could be a good complementary player ala Kunitz style. [/q]

I also like De La Rose but I'm curious to see if people think he's got enough offensive ability to take in the 1st.

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01-06-2013, 09:20 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
By the way, I just want to use this as an example, since I have been called out by some for suggesting that Harrington has "untapped" offensive upside, even though he hasn't put up those numbers in juniors.


If you watch the Brett Ritchie goal today -- and if someone has it, post the video from when the play starts with Harrington pinching at the point -- you will see Harrington drive all the way down to the front of the net where he is looking for a goal, like a winger would. And no, Canada wasn't down by 3-4 goals where Harrington (or anyone) would just make a crazy-risky play. What he did here was recognize that he was the Dman on that particular play/shift that was going to be the guy joining the play and saw an opening. He made that goal happen.


So I just wanted to point this out as an example of the types of things I've seen from him before that lead me to my conclusion. Think about some of our other "stay at home" or "shutdown" defensive Dman that we have or have had on this team in recent years. I cannot remember the last time I saw Brooks Orpik or Rob Scuderi pinch in all the way down and then drive to the front of the opposing net trying to score a goal. Harrington doesn't do this quite as often as I would like; but I would like to see him do this just a little bit more, because he has such good hockey sense that when he makes these plays to do this, 9 times out of 10 he makes great plays and great reads, just like he does defensively.


Again, I'm not saying he's going to put up huge numbers, but this is why I think he can be a 30 or even 35 point guy, especially with how this Pens team likes to play. Pair him with a guy who is more defensive, and you will see this that much more often. Now, I think he's ready to play in the NHL next year, but if he doesn't, this is the part of his game that I would like to see developed a bit more if he spends any time in the AHL.
Sure he will get his assists, but do you really think he has the offensive skills to drive the play and actually "earn" those points himself? I don't think he is that type of player IMO. He will end up passing it up to our forwards and they will totally be responsible for turning his neutral zone pass into an assist. His points will depend elusively on his ice-time with our #1 and #2 lines (which will probably not be very much).

I don't see a player with Letang (or Gogo) like stickhandling and passing when I watch him. He is much more Scuderi than those guys (which is great), and you have to expect his confidence with the puck will recede slightly in a much tougher league. With the Pen's current and future rosters, he is never going to have someone more "defensive" than himself in a pairing. He IS, and will be groomed to BE that guy. Pen's wouldn't try to make him something he is not because they don't need to.


I am just glad a couple boys from Pittsburgh were able to play key roles in taking home the gold.....and they sent Canada home with nothing. So how many more medals does the US have to win until we get obnoxious/no class fans boo-ing rival teams in non-US games?

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01-06-2013, 11:25 AM
  #234
Antaris
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Originally Posted by Sjb141 View Post
I also like De La Rose but I'm curious to see if people think he's got enough offensive ability to take in the 1st.
1st round?

Not happening, i see him going in the third round.

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01-06-2013, 12:44 PM
  #235
jmelm
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Originally Posted by Dangles78 View Post
I think you're grasping for straws.

Harrington has displayed that he's capable of joining the rush/having offensive instincts. However, it is unlikely for these attributes to translate. Plus, it's not like the Pens are grooming him to be this type of player. He's a blend of Eaton and Scuderi IMO or a Paul Martin type of player (in NJ). He's closer to a TWD than a DFD, but he won't be groomed as the former.

That's precisely my argument. If the Pens develop him as a shut-down only defender, they will be short-chaning his upside and overall potential. If you use Martin as an example, he is a guy who put up points in the mid to high 30s in NJ. I think Harrington's potential is a lot closer to that offensively than to Scuderi or Eaton. He has superior hockey sense any of those guys, and a harder shot, as well.


Now, if Harrington jumps directly into the NHL next season and plays on the 3rd pair with a guy who likes to jump into the play a lot, then he may not put up a lot of points. But if he goes to the AHL first, just because of the amount of guys in front of him, then I hope they use that opportunity to put him in more offensive players.


Harrington usually plays with guys who like to jump into the play (i.e. Hamilton, Ryan Murray, etc.), and thus plays the role of the defensive conscience. But if you put him with a guy who is more of a stay at home type, then Harrington may play the role of the guy who is going to be the one to jump into the play more often -- and if this does happen, people will realize that he has more offensive potential than a lot of people think, because his reads of the play are at an extremely high level.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Sure he will get his assists, but do you really think he has the offensive skills to drive the play and actually "earn" those points himself? I don't think he is that type of player IMO. He will end up passing it up to our forwards and they will totally be responsible for turning his neutral zone pass into an assist. His points will depend elusively on his ice-time with our #1 and #2 lines (which will probably not be very much).

I don't see a player with Letang (or Gogo) like stickhandling and passing when I watch him. He is much more Scuderi than those guys (which is great), and you have to expect his confidence with the puck will recede slightly in a much tougher league. With the Pen's current and future rosters, he is never going to have someone more "defensive" than himself in a pairing. He IS, and will be groomed to BE that guy. Pen's wouldn't try to make him something he is not because they don't need to.

As I said above: he won't ever reach Letang or GoGo levels, but I think he can be better than Scuderi. Paul Martin (in NJ) or a guy like Glen Wesley (a guy I like to compare him to due to longevity, leadership, overall upside and two-way play), then I think that's a better comparison. But again, because Harry is so damn smart, and because the Pens like to employ a game where their defense joins the play, you may see him start to add some offense once he gets comfortable with the system and his teammates, and builds confidence in general.

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01-07-2013, 12:37 PM
  #236
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Besides Harrington being named 1 of the top 3 Canadians at the WJC, Blugers was on Latvia's list as one of its three best players.

Noticeable omission was Maatta from Finland.

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01-07-2013, 12:42 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
Besides Harrington being named 1 of the top 3 Canadians at the WJC, Blugers was on Latvia's list as one of its three best players.

Noticeable omission was Maatta from Finland.
Wasnt Finland as a team disappointing and had some injuries? I thought heading in, they were looking to be pretty decent

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01-07-2013, 02:26 PM
  #238
jmelm
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
Besides Harrington being named 1 of the top 3 Canadians at the WJC, Blugers was on Latvia's list as one of its three best players.

Noticeable omission was Maatta from Finland.

Like Jacob just said about Morrow: I wouldn't really consider Maatta to be an elite prospect. He is a guy with a lot of tools, and he was a pretty good pick at that spot in the draft. Hopefully he pans out, and what he's accomplished so far for his age is great, but he's not without some holes in his game, and hopefully he puts all the pieces together and progresses well.


Also, no one ever thought, going into the tourny, that Maatta was their best Dman. That title goes to R.R., who might be a top-10 pick in this year's draft.

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01-07-2013, 02:52 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Like Jacob just said about Morrow: I wouldn't really consider Maatta to be an elite prospect. He is a guy with a lot of tools, and he was a pretty good pick at that spot in the draft. Hopefully he pans out, and what he's accomplished so far for his age is great, but he's not without some holes in his game, and hopefully he puts all the pieces together and progresses well.


Also, no one ever thought, going into the tourny, that Maatta was their best Dman. That title goes to R.R., who might be a top-10 pick in this year's draft.
I just want to get everyones take on this line of thought.. Pouliot is the only Pens prospect with elite qualities. I'm not saying he's an elite player but there is a chance he could be and he's the only Pens propect I could say that about.


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01-07-2013, 10:30 PM
  #240
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I just want to get everyones take on this line of thought.. Pouliot is the only Pens prospect with elite qualities. I'm not saying he's an elite player but there is a chance he could be and he's the only Pens propect I could say that about.
I'm not sure I would go that far. I think Morrow has elite skating and shooting ability (but some weaknesses elsewhere), and Harrington absolutely is elite in the following areas: hockey sense, defensive awareness, shot-blocking, and perhaps others.


As far as forwards go, I would say Bennett is elite in terms of his hands, and is showing some near-elite vision & playmaking ability. Kuhnhackl has shooting ability that is very close to elite (especially his one-timer on the PP), but wouldn't classify as elite or blue-chip at this point, most likely due to injuries.


And yes, Pouliot definitely has some elite qualities. I do not think there's anything particularly elite about Despres or Maatta though, and while I haven't seen enough of Dumoulin to truly comment, I have the feeling (while not elite), he could be a pretty great package of a lot of different attributes, and could end up being an elite player one day.

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