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MLS vs. NHL Going Forward?

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Old
12-30-2012, 04:55 PM
  #276
JetsFlyHigh
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MLS is such a young league compared to the NHL. But its gaining steam, and to be looked at as a threat against the NHL is incredible.

Hockey is seasonal. Soccer isn't. Same with Baseball, Football, and Basketball. It's cheap compared to hockey. However when it comes to being established with hardcore hockey fans the NHL has the upper hand. Although let's not ignore the fact that this young league has become popular, and I think give it 50 years going for the right direction, MLS could overtake NHL, when it comes to overall criteria.

It's only a matter of time.

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12-30-2012, 05:00 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Ronald Dubinsky View Post
I'm both a hockey and soccer fan, but lets be honest. Who follows the NHL?

I live in the NY area where one of the most valuable NHL teams play (the Rangers) and I know only one other person that is a Rangers fan. Nobody at my job is a hockey fan. Nobody I know in the area plays hockey. Nobody on the radio or TV talks about hockey. Only one writer (Larry Brooks) writes about hockey and gets mentioned on the back pages of the New York Post. All the other media is completely irrelevant and doesn't even have a footprint on the local sports market.

Hockey, at least in my opinion, is not a big 4 sport. MLS isn't either but a lot of younger people I've noticed have a bigger interest in soccer than hockey.

Combine what I'm seeing (lack of fans) with putrid NHL TV ratings, zero media coverage, and a sport that is a ripoff for people to play, I come to the conclusion that hockey is vastly overrated in terms of popularity,.
I am very perplexed by your post. The Rangers have one of the greatest fan bases in the NHL, they are consistently at full capacity year after year, and they have great local TV ratings (some of the best in all of sports). I guess my only question to you is what “NY area” means exactly because the Rangers are most definitely relevant in New York City. As far as hockey as a sport in general I believe NY State is a hot bed for youth and high school hockey at least that’s what I have always been told.

Game 6 of the Rangers/Senators playoff series scored a local 4.27 in what was a record breaking year for the Rangers on MSG
http://www.themadisonsquaregardencom...en-rating.html

I can't find the Red Bulls local TV ratings anywhere only a quote: "While soccer doesn’t generate the sort of ratings delivered by MSG’s Knicks and Rangers telecasts, the Red Bulls slate is particularly attractive as it provides live sports content in an otherwise fallow summer season."
http://www.adweek.com/news/advertisi...d-bulls-126120


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12-30-2012, 05:20 PM
  #278
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Anyone who thinks that baseball is somehow dying is simply out of their mind. The difference between football and baseball is that one is a national sport while the other is a regional sport. What I mean by that is that NFL fans will watch out of market games no matter who is playing while baseball fans generally will not. But within smaller geographic regions, baseball is just as popular as football. Add all those individual regions up and you have a sport that is still incredibly popular and shows no sign of sliding. TV ratings for individual teams remain strong. Yes football should be considered the most popular sport in America but baseball is so entrenched in the fabric of American life, so in tune with the passage of the seasons, that it remains incredibly popular. Always has, always will.

As for soccer: it is easy to overestimate how popular soccer is or what its growth ceiling is. And I say that as a soccer fan who generally watches one or two EPL games every weekend as well as Championship League games. I'm thrilled that soccer is growing in the US. But soccer in the US has one big drawback: for all the success that MLS has it and for all the success of its slow but steady growth plan, it is, and likely always will be a distant league in popularity in the US because it is a second or third tier league. Except for hardcore fans, without a true major league with world class talent (or at least the ability to hold on to home grown talent), most Americans will not latch on to soccer outside of what they can watch from Europe each weekend.. I wish it wasn't so, because I have come to love the sport, but I just think that soccer has a glass ceiling that it will eventually hit. But when I think of how it was just 20 years ago, the growth in interest in soccer has been phenomenal.

I must disagree with the poster who puts down hockey in the New York area. I live about 50 miles north of the city. 20 years ago few high schools had hockey teams, now just about all do. At Danbury, CT, not far where I live, the low minor league (Federal League) Whalers will draw 2000 on weekends. If I wear a Ranger shirt or jacket to the mall or supermarket, someone will always stop me to talk hockey. Back in late August, I was visiting family near Albany, went to a mall wearing a Ranger shirt and three people stopped me to talk about Rick Nash. this is not unusual.Yes the lack of coverage in the media is maddening, but as someone who has been a hockey fan since the late 1950s, it has always been this way. That is what is so maddening about this fiasco of a lockout: even if we come back in January, it is going to take years to get back to where we were just last year. But hockey is popular in the suburbs and will continue to grow.

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12-30-2012, 05:31 PM
  #279
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Anyone who thinks that baseball is somehow dying is simply out of their mind. The difference between football and baseball is that one is a national sport while the other is a regional sport. What I mean by that is that NFL fans will watch out of market games no matter who is playing while baseball fans generally will not. But within smaller geographic regions, baseball is just as popular as football. Add all those individual regions up and you have a sport that is still incredibly popular and shows no sign of sliding. TV ratings for individual teams remain strong. Yes football should be considered the most popular sport in America but baseball is so entrenched in the fabric of American life, so in tune with the passage of the seasons, that it remains incredibly popular. Always has, always will.

As for soccer: it is easy to overestimate how popular soccer is or what its growth ceiling is. And I say that as a soccer fan who generally watches one or two EPL games every weekend as well as Championship League games. I'm thrilled that soccer is growing in the US. But soccer in the US has one big drawback: for all the success that MLS has it and for all the success of its slow but steady growth plan, it is, and likely always will be a distant league in popularity in the US because it is a second or third tier league. Except for hardcore fans, without a true major league with world class talent (or at least the ability to hold on to home grown talent), most Americans will not latch on to soccer outside of what they can watch from Europe each weekend.. I wish it wasn't so, because I have come to love the sport, but I just think that soccer has a glass ceiling that it will eventually hit. But when I think of how it was just 20 years ago, the growth in interest in soccer has been phenomenal.

I must disagree with the poster who puts down hockey in the New York area. I live about 50 miles north of the city. 20 years ago few high schools had hockey teams, now just about all do. At Danbury, CT, not far where I live, the low minor league (Federal League) Whalers will draw 2000 on weekends. If I wear a Ranger shirt or jacket to the mall or supermarket, someone will always stop me to talk hockey. Back in late August, I was visiting family near Albany, went to a mall wearing a Ranger shirt and three people stopped me to talk about Rick Nash. this is not unusual.Yes the lack of coverage in the media is maddening, but as someone who has been a hockey fan since the late 1950s, it has always been this way. That is what is so maddening about this fiasco of a lockout: even if we come back in January, it is going to take years to get back to where we were just last year. But hockey is popular in the suburbs and will continue to grow.
qu'est-ce que c'est, championship league?

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12-30-2012, 06:07 PM
  #280
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I think the MLS would have to look into some type of TV timeout breaks. Cause you have 45 minute plus of straight with no commercials then a 15 minute half time and another 45 minutes or so of no commercials. Don't see how they can make money on a tv deal like the NHL, NBA and MLB teams can.
That to me is the main reason why they won't succeed past a certain point financially. I do love the LA galaxy (and have season tickets. Great value)

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12-30-2012, 06:18 PM
  #281
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Soccer is a niche sport a best and about as exciting as watching paint dry. The game might be big in Europe but the only time it gets attention here is during the world cup or the Olympics. I'd don't see a 2nd rate soccer league overtaking the NHL.

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12-30-2012, 06:39 PM
  #282
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Championship League=UEFA Championship League between all the top club teams in Europe and about to enter its knockout stage in February. Not the 2nd tier English Championship League

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12-30-2012, 06:41 PM
  #283
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Soccer is a niche sport a best and about as exciting as watching paint dry. The game might be big in Europe but the only time it gets attention here is during the world cup or the Olympics. I'd don't see a 2nd rate soccer league overtaking the NHL.
Start to watch soccer using hockey as your guide. The similarity between the sports is amazing.

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12-30-2012, 06:54 PM
  #284
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I won't support the MLS even if Ottawa gets a team.

If I want my soccer/football fix I'll watch Premier League games and keep up with the standings. No reason to support a second-rate product. Good luck to MLS teams though.

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12-30-2012, 07:04 PM
  #285
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I won't support the MLS even if Ottawa gets a team.

If I want my soccer/football fix I'll watch Premier League games and keep up with the standings. No reason to support a second-rate product. Good luck to MLS teams though.
Any Torontonian would tell you the live experience is reason enough.

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12-30-2012, 07:05 PM
  #286
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I think the MLS would have to look into some type of TV timeout breaks. Cause you have 45 minute plus of straight with no commercials then a 15 minute half time and another 45 minutes or so of no commercials. Don't see how they can make money on a tv deal like the NHL, NBA and MLB teams can.
That to me is the main reason why they won't succeed past a certain point financially. I do love the LA galaxy (and have season tickets. Great value)
MLS is already considered a mickey mouse league, doing this would just set that stamp for 10 years to come.

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12-30-2012, 07:09 PM
  #287
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Championship League=UEFA Championship League between all the top club teams in Europe and about to enter its knockout stage in February. Not the 2nd tier English Championship League
Ohhhh the Champions league? and we thought the term "Ice hockey" was funny.

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12-30-2012, 07:20 PM
  #288
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Ohhhh the Champions league? and we thought the term "Ice hockey" was funny.
Uhhhh, what?


MLS will continue to grow because soccer is already the biggest sport in the world. Also, the experience of being at a game is unlike any other sport. It will never overtake hockey in Canada, though it will rival the CFL someday if it doesn't already. In the States I could see it overtaking the NHL.

If the MLS can attract some top European talent eventually it could rival the top leagues in Europe. As of now the MLS only attracts second tier South/Central American talent, North American talent and European players that are past their prime, because of this it is looked at as an inferior league. If other teams can harness what Seattle and to a lesser extent Portland, Vancouver and Toronto have, it will go a long way to building the league into a legitimate top tier league.

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12-30-2012, 07:24 PM
  #289
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Uhhhh, what?


MLS will continue to grow because soccer is already the biggest sport in the world. Also, the experience of being at a game is unlike any other sport. It will never overtake hockey in Canada, though it will rival the CFL someday if it doesn't already. In the States I could see it overtaking the NHL.

If the MLS can attract some top European talent eventually it could rival the top leagues in Europe. As of now the MLS only attracts second tier South/Central American talent, North American talent and European players that are past their prime, because of this it is looked at as an inferior league. If other teams can harness what Seattle and to a lesser extent Portland, Vancouver and Toronto have, it will go a long way to building the league into a legitimate top tier league.
Unless the MLS club is willing to at least double the salaray, you won't see any top talent within the next 50-100 years.

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12-30-2012, 07:27 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by the beat View Post
Uhhhh, what?


MLS will continue to grow because soccer is already the biggest sport in the world. Also, the experience of being at a game is unlike any other sport. It will never overtake hockey in Canada, though it will rival the CFL someday if it doesn't already. In the States I could see it overtaking the NHL.

If the MLS can attract some top European talent eventually it could rival the top leagues in Europe. As of now the MLS only attracts second tier South/Central American talent, North American talent and European players that are past their prime, because of this it is looked at as an inferior league. If other teams can harness what Seattle and to a lesser extent Portland, Vancouver and Toronto have, it will go a long way to building the league into a legitimate top tier league.
Terminology, forget it.

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12-30-2012, 07:48 PM
  #291
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Uhhhh, what?


MLS will continue to grow because soccer is already the biggest sport in the world. Also, the experience of being at a game is unlike any other sport. It will never overtake hockey in Canada, though it will rival the CFL someday if it doesn't already. In the States I could see it overtaking the NHL.

If the MLS can attract some top European talent eventually it could rival the top leagues in Europe. As of now the MLS only attracts second tier South/Central American talent, North American talent and European players that are past their prime, because of this it is looked at as an inferior league. If other teams can harness what Seattle and to a lesser extent Portland, Vancouver and Toronto have, it will go a long way to building the league into a legitimate top tier league.
I don’t know why people keep bringing up soccer’s popularity outside of North America as a reason for its potential growth in North America. It makes no sense to me; people are not going to start watching the MLS over the NHL, NBA, MLB, or the NFL because it’s the most popular sport in the world. If that was the case there would have been pro soccer in North America decades ago.

As far as “the experience of being at a game is unlike any other sport” I hear that a lot from MLS supporters and to be honest I just don’t see it. I have been to a few Revolution games with the kids and I attended one of the World Cup matches in 1994 and I was unimpressed. Now I understand this was a small sample; and in the case of the Revolution games a poor example, of live soccer but I just didn’t see the draw of the game. I have been lucky enough to attend some amazing live sports events in my lifetime; multiple NFL playoff games including Super Bowl 34, multiple NBA and NHL playoff games including game 2 of the 2008 NBA finals and game 3 of the 2011 NHL finals, two football games at Notre Dame stadium, and a ton of Red Sox playoff games including game 5 of the 2004 ALCS. I can’t imagine any soccer match surpassing those live experiences, maybe it compares in other countries but not in the MLS.

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12-30-2012, 07:59 PM
  #292
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I don’t know why people keep bringing up soccer’s popularity outside of North America as a reason for its potential growth in North America. It makes no sense to me; people are not going to start watching the MLS over the NHL, NBA, MLB, or the NFL because it’s the most popular sport in the world. If that was the case there would have been pro soccer in North America decades ago.

As far as “the experience of being at a game is unlike any other sport” I hear that a lot from MLS supporters and to be honest I just don’t see it. I have been to a few Revolution games with the kids and I attended one of the World Cup matches in 1994 and I was unimpressed. Now I understand this was a small sample; and in the case of the Revolution games a poor example, of live soccer but I just didn’t see the draw of the game. I have been lucky enough to attend some amazing live sports events in my lifetime; multiple NFL playoff games including Super Bowl 34, multiple NBA and NHL playoff games including game 2 of the 2008 NBA finals and game 3 of the 2011 NHL finals, two football games at Notre Dame stadium, and a ton of Red Sox playoff games including game 5 of the 2004 ALCS. I can’t imagine any soccer match surpassing those live experiences, maybe it compares in other countries but not in the MLS.
It's nice you believe so much in hockey. It will be ugly once they cancel the season in 2 weeks. MLS may not overtake hockey but NHL as one of the big 4? Nope.

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12-30-2012, 08:04 PM
  #293
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same line of crap then as is now. Back then, it was a playing perspective, now it is a watching. Fact is, soccer is nothing more than a little kids activity. When these kids get older, they gravitate towards real football or other sports. That cycle has never been broken & is not in any danger of breaking now.

Big deal that soccer has a channel. There is just about a channel for anything on cable these days. Hockey has nothing to fear regarding soccer.
You're so scared it's sad. Btw you're at fault if it does happen. Soccer passing hockey. Just like the NHL owners you have no contingency plan for minorities.

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12-30-2012, 08:06 PM
  #294
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A Red Sox playoff game - especially if it's against You Know Who - has atmospheric intensity to match any other sporting event on the planet. Was at a Miami-NotreDame game during the height of the "Convicts vs Catholics" era - talk about atmosphere! Miami - FSU during that era was pretty freakin' special, too.

There were some fantastic games at '94 WC - but really, you need to be in Europe or S.A. to get the proper effect. Most intense sporting event of my life was the Croatia-(then)Yuguslavia European Cup qualifying match in Zagreb back in 2000 (ish).

For my money, a typical Whitecaps game has better fan atmosphere than a typical Canucks game. Not better, however, than a typical Team Canada Olympic game.

Anyway, this is all in YMMV territory...

 
Old
12-30-2012, 08:11 PM
  #295
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I donít know why people keep bringing up soccerís popularity outside of North America as a reason for its potential growth in North America. It makes no sense to me; people are not going to start watching the MLS over the NHL, NBA, MLB, or the NFL because itís the most popular sport in the world. If that was the case there would have been pro soccer in North America decades ago.

As far as ďthe experience of being at a game is unlike any other sportĒ I hear that a lot from MLS supporters and to be honest I just donít see it. I have been to a few Revolution games with the kids and I attended one of the World Cup matches in 1994 and I was unimpressed. Now I understand this was a small sample; and in the case of the Revolution games a poor example, of live soccer but I just didnít see the draw of the game. I have been lucky enough to attend some amazing live sports events in my lifetime; multiple NFL playoff games including Super Bowl 34, multiple NBA and NHL playoff games including game 2 of the 2008 NBA finals and game 3 of the 2011 NHL finals, two football games at Notre Dame stadium, and a ton of Red Sox playoff games including game 5 of the 2004 ALCS. I canít imagine any soccer match surpassing those live experiences, maybe it compares in other countries but not in the MLS.
The atmosphere at North American sporting events does not even begin to come close to the atmosphere at European football matches. The Superbowl is a yawnfest compared to even a regular match in some parks over there.




MLS clubs have their own songs and traditions too, so as the league grows in popularity, people will catch on and we'll hopefully see these kinds of things here too. These kinds of things that make an insane atmosphere do not happen with the other sports, save for Swiss hockey clubs. North American culture is always a few steps behind Europe, MLS just has some catching up to do - and by that I mean a few decades worth.

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12-30-2012, 08:19 PM
  #296
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I donít know why people keep bringing up soccerís popularity outside of North America as a reason for its potential growth in North America. It makes no sense to me; people are not going to start watching the MLS over the NHL, NBA, MLB, or the NFL because itís the most popular sport in the world. If that was the case there would have been pro soccer in North America decades ago.

As far as ďthe experience of being at a game is unlike any other sportĒ I hear that a lot from MLS supporters and to be honest I just donít see it. I have been to a few Revolution games with the kids and I attended one of the World Cup matches in 1994 and I was unimpressed. Now I understand this was a small sample; and in the case of the Revolution games a poor example, of live soccer but I just didnít see the draw of the game. I have been lucky enough to attend some amazing live sports events in my lifetime; multiple NFL playoff games including Super Bowl 34, multiple NBA and NHL playoff games including game 2 of the 2008 NBA finals and game 3 of the 2011 NHL finals, two football games at Notre Dame stadium, and a ton of Red Sox playoff games including game 5 of the 2004 ALCS. I canít imagine any soccer match surpassing those live experiences, maybe it compares in other countries but not in the MLS.
Well you do have to be a fan of the team. Have a rooting interest, pull for them to win. If you go to any event and just watch not caring what the outcome will be. Chances are you will be bored silly. I'm that way with Football and Basketball.

Baseball is a little funny with me, if my team has no chance of winning I don't care for the game but if they're good I'm a bandwagonner and I'm there rooting for them. Hockey has me hooked but they don't get my money mainly because it's too expensive to go. I watch all the games on TV so I guess indirectly through my cable bill, hockey gets something. Soccer I can go to and I do. I also root for the team to win so all games are exciting. For some reason my soccer team doesn't have to win to keep my interest.. Much like my hockey team.

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12-30-2012, 08:23 PM
  #297
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MLS clubs have their own songs and traditions too, so as the league grows in popularity, people will catch on and we'll hopefully see these kinds of things here too. These kinds of things that make an insane atmosphere do not happen with the other sports, save for Swiss hockey clubs. North American culture is always a few steps behind Europe, MLS just has some catching up to do - and by that I mean a few decades worth.


I would argue the atmosphere and live experience with Toronto FC is probably five times the experience you get with the Leafs.

Canada is probably a better place to see MLS growth with our thriving immigrant community.

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12-30-2012, 08:24 PM
  #298
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The atmosphere at North American sporting events does not even begin to come close to the atmosphere at European football matches. The Superbowl is a yawnfest compared to even a regular match in some parks over there.

MLS clubs have their own songs and traditions too, so as the league grows in popularity, people will catch on and we'll hopefully see these kinds of things here too. These kinds of things that make an insane atmosphere do not happen with the other sports, save for Swiss hockey clubs. North American culture is always a few steps behind Europe, MLS just has some catching up to do - and by that I mean a few decades worth.
You shouldn't have posted that. Each time vids from Europe are shown here, the only reason the crowd sings and cheers is because:

a: The game is so boring they have nothing else to do.
b: The game does not requiere you to pay any attention and thus you can do lots of other things at the same time.

When the europeans say "What? Nothing happens in American football or Baseball, why don't you sing and cheer there?" the replies are:

a: The games are sofisticated and there are more things that happen than is shown, so there is no time.
b: You need to pay lots of attention, otherwise you will miss action.
c: If you cheer when your team is attacking they won't hear the commands from the QB. (I've seriously seen this one posted on HF).

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12-30-2012, 08:29 PM
  #299
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If you cheer when your team is attacking they won't hear the commands from the QB. (I've seriously seen this one posted on HF).
Well that's a legitimate reason. The QB has to be able to tell the offense what to do. If you watch football and some teams like Seattle especially, the visiting offenses have a lot of trouble with the crowd noise (false starts, delay of games, etc.) It would be dumb for them to be that loud when their own team has the ball....

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12-30-2012, 08:31 PM
  #300
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You shouldn't have posted that. Each time vids from Europe are shown here, the only reason the crowd sings and cheers is because:

a: The game is so boring they have nothing else to do.
b: The game does not requiere you to pay any attention and thus you can do lots of other things at the same time.

When the europeans say "What? Nothing happens in American football or Baseball, why don't you sing and cheer there?" the replies are:

a: The games are sofisticated and there are more things that happen than is shown, so there is no time.
b: You need to pay lots of attention, otherwise you will miss action.
c: If you cheer when your team is attacking they won't hear the commands from the QB. (I've seriously seen this one posted on HF).
I'm not ******** you here. I was at my first and only Live NFL game two weeks ago. Bills at Seattle in Toronto. On the big screen were the words. Shhhhhhh we can't hear. It was when we (The Bills) had the ball. The real funny thing was we weren't making any noise anyway.

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