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MLS vs. NHL Going Forward?

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Old
03-03-2013, 05:01 PM
  #476
patnyrnyg
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Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
Strongly disagree with all of this.

The Premier League hasn't become popular because 'it's an immigrant country'. It is was, why wasn't it on TV 15-20 years ago. It's become popular because of THE INTERNET. The easy access to information has created this global culture we have today.

Now, just because people are watching soccer doesn't mean they'll ever want to watch what is essentially 'Single A' soccer. People want to watch the best in the world.
The other issue, and this does matter in the US, is the US is not a world power in soccer. Only way the MLS is ever going to be accepted as a mainstream league is in this country is 1) US has to win a World Cup, 2) US has to consistently be considered a serious contender for the World Cup and 3) The best American players will need to play in the MLS.

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03-03-2013, 05:04 PM
  #477
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1 million people, or you mean less than 0.5% of the population? Success, is a relative term. Success where the owners are making money?

Success in that they are considered a major sport/league in the US? Don't think it happens in our lifetimes.
Considering a few short years ago the thought of even broadcasting Euro in the States at all was unthinkable I'd say it's a very good foothold. And I can't speak for the US ratings but the Canadian viewership for Euro 2012 was a big jump over 2008, and they drew in about the same number of viewers in a country 1/10th the size.

I have no delusions about there being some kind of catalyst that will make soccer a massive hit in NA overnight but there's no question that growth of interest in the game is (steadily) moving very much in the right direction. MLS has learned from a lot of the mistakes of the old NASL and they more importantly they understand the effect the internet has had in creating a global impact for the sport. They're not going to leapfrog themselves over the Big 4 but I think it's quite plausible that people will eventually be talking about a Big 5.


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03-03-2013, 05:14 PM
  #478
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Considering a few short years ago the thought of even broadcasting Euro in the States at all was unthinkable I'd say it's a very good foothold. And I can't speak for the US ratings but the Canadian viewership for Euro 2012 was a big jump over 2008, and they drew in about the same number of viewers in a country 1/10th the size.
That is not necessarily going to translate into a successful domestic league. During international tournaments, people get a great feeling of patriotism. For Americans when it comes to soccer, it becomes about the countries of their ancestors. You see the same with the Olympic sports. Michael Phelps won tons of medals and was the story during 2 summers. Can anyone tell me how he did in his last race? Same for sports like gymnastics, track, even figure skating. Without looking it up, can anyone tell me the results of the last international skating competition or last international gymnastics competition aside from the olympics?

As for becoming a Big 5, it is possible. But we are a LONG way from that happening. Like I said earlier in the thread, in NY I cannot ever remember anyone talking about the Red Bulls on WFAN, and not even sure if their scores get mentioned in their 20/20 updates. Secondly, I don't follow basketball at all, yet I know the Knicks are on MSG and the Nets are on YES. However, I could not tell you which channel broadcasts Red Bulls games. I know their games are on tv, but not sure on the channel.

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03-03-2013, 05:27 PM
  #479
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Secondly, I don't follow basketball at all, yet I know the Knicks are on MSG and the Nets are on YES. However, I could not tell you which channel broadcasts Red Bulls games. I know their games are on tv, but not sure on the channel.
I've never even been to New York, but I'm pretty sure they're on MSG too.

The problem with the Metrostars/Red Bulls is they've sucked pretty much for their entire existence. There'll be a team in NYC proper one of these years, and they'll get an opportunity not to suck for 17 years. If they manage that they might make a dent in the NY market.

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03-03-2013, 05:28 PM
  #480
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That is not necessarily going to translate into a successful domestic league. During international tournaments, people get a great feeling of patriotism. For Americans when it comes to soccer, it becomes about the countries of their ancestors. You see the same with the Olympic sports. Michael Phelps won tons of medals and was the story during 2 summers. Can anyone tell me how he did in his last race? Same for sports like gymnastics, track, even figure skating. Without looking it up, can anyone tell me the results of the last international skating competition or last international gymnastics competition aside from the olympics?
How much of an effort is there to televise - or otherwise report on - those sorts of events outside of the Olympics, though? How much are broadcasters spending to get those events on-air? Even with a league as fringe as MLS I can pop onto TSN's front page and find pre- and post-game reports for the Whitecaps relatively easily, or a report on the week's results in the EPL. I can count on MLS games being broadcast on TSN on a reasonably consistent basis, or having live streams every Whitecaps game available to view on my phone (or reliable pirated streams on ********sporta) if network TV isn't an option. Point being, there are a plethora of easy options for me to be able to keep up to date with what's going on in the league because broadcasters and sports reporters have made the investments to make that a reality, at least here in Canada; not so much so for say the world floor gymnastics circuit.


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03-03-2013, 07:17 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
1 million people, or you mean less than 0.5% of the population?
What does this say about the NHL, then?

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Watching 1 game a week on a saturday/sunday morning when there are no other live games on
That's when the games are played, though? So if you're doing that every week, you are following the league casually.

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03-03-2013, 07:27 PM
  #482
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Considering a few short years ago the thought of even broadcasting Euro in the States at all was unthinkable I'd say it's a very good foothold. And I can't speak for the US ratings but the Canadian viewership for Euro 2012 was a big jump over 2008, and they drew in about the same number of viewers in a country 1/10th the size.
Says a lot more about TV than soccer. There are 20,000 channels now. Everything is on TV. There are shows about people who shoot and kill pigs. That's the whole show - people shooting and killing pigs.

Networks are desperate for sports programming because the internet has driven eyes away from TV in general. Sports, because it's aired live, is one of the few things that attracts viewers.

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03-03-2013, 07:45 PM
  #483
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What does this say about the NHL, then?



That's when the games are played, though? So if you're doing that every week, you are following the league casually.
Pretty sure more than 1million people are watching hockey across the country each day.

Casually following? Not sure that is true. I know Man U was on, don't remember who they were playing. Man U scored late in the first half, and I didn't watch the 2nd half.

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03-03-2013, 07:46 PM
  #484
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I've never even been to New York, but I'm pretty sure they're on MSG too.

The problem with the Metrostars/Red Bulls is they've sucked pretty much for their entire existence. There'll be a team in NYC proper one of these years, and they'll get an opportunity not to suck for 17 years. If they manage that they might make a dent in the NY market.
Well, it is either MSG, MSG+, SNY, or YES. Those are the 4 local sports channels.

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03-03-2013, 07:46 PM
  #485
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Since we're talking MLS, how lame is it that Landon Donovan has given himself a vacation and will rejoin the team like a month after the season starts? Keane must think he's a little baby.

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03-03-2013, 08:02 PM
  #486
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Pretty sure more than 1million people are watching hockey across the country each day.
You're joking right?

Unless you mean Canada....

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03-03-2013, 08:20 PM
  #487
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You're joking right?

Unless you mean Canada....
200,000 viewers on average in Chicago alone. I believe New York gets well over 200,000 per game as well. So we're already almost halfway there with only 2 teams.

And all of the NBC games get well over a million viewers in the US as well, and that's for only 1 game. I don't think they have ever had less than 1 million viewers for a game, actually. The big NBCSN games get close to 1 million as well, again... just for 1 game.

I bet the NHL does well north of 1 million per night in the US alone, on average. Add Canada and it's way more.

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03-03-2013, 08:21 PM
  #488
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Says a lot more about TV than soccer. There are 20,000 channels now.
If that was the case they wouldn't be paying so much for broadcast rights and they wouldn't be putting games on these networks' primary channels. If it was meant to be filler programming they'd pay bargain-bin filler-programming prices for contracts.

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03-03-2013, 08:24 PM
  #489
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If that was the case they wouldn't be paying so much for broadcast rights and they wouldn't be putting games on these networks' primary channels. If it was meant to be filler programming they'd pay bargain-bin filler-programming prices for contracts.
Like I said, they are desperate for sports programming. The broadcast rights for all sports is through the roof. NBC, CBS and FOX all have sports-only networks now and they are all competing for every sport under the Sun. They desperately need content for those channels.

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03-03-2013, 09:26 PM
  #490
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Red Bulls are on MSG
http://www.newyorkredbulls.com/schedule

Such a step up over the Fire, who have most of their games on a digital subchannel of WMAQ/NBC-5, not in HD, and don't broadcast games on their own when they're on a spanish only channel like they were today.

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03-03-2013, 09:26 PM
  #491
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You're joking right?

Unless you mean Canada....
definitely not joking. You are talking about a country with 300 million people.

Here is an article where one game on NBCS drew 433,000 viewers and that is with the game being showed on the Caps local channe, as well as NBCSl. Then the late game drawing 200K+ without being shown on that station in Detroit at all. Look at the bottom, 2 of the games drew almost a million alone.

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2013/2/2...from-last-week

This is just talking about the NBCS games and took me all of 30 seconds to find.


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03-03-2013, 09:40 PM
  #492
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Per Grant Wahl, Chivas USA apparently sold a whopping 2,700 tickets for their home opener this weekend. Comped another 2,100 tickets and announced a crowd of just over 7K. Tough to imagine MLS overtaking the NHL any time season with a weakest link like that.

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03-03-2013, 09:47 PM
  #493
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Per Grant Wahl, Chivas USA apparently sold a whopping 2,700 tickets for their home opener this weekend. Comped another 2,100 tickets and announced a crowd of just over 7K. Tough to imagine MLS overtaking the NHL any time season with a weakest link like that.
On a scale of 0 to Chivas, the Phoenix Coyotes mess is like a 3.

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03-03-2013, 09:47 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
definitely not joking. You are talking about a country with 300 million people.

Here is an article where one game on NBCS drew 433,000 viewers and that is with the game being showed on the Caps local channe, as well as NBCSl. Then the late game drawing 200K+ without being shown on that station in Detroit at all. Look at the bottom, 2 of the games drew almost a million alone.

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2013/2/2...from-last-week

This is just talking about the NBCS games and took me all of 30 seconds to find.
Yeah, 300 million people and hardly any of them care about hockey.

I don't doubt that OCCASIONALLY a million people watch hockey in a day. But it's definitely not a normal occurrence.

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03-03-2013, 09:50 PM
  #495
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Per Grant Wahl, Chivas USA apparently sold a whopping 2,700 tickets for their home opener this weekend. Comped another 2,100 tickets and announced a crowd of just over 7K. Tough to imagine MLS overtaking the NHL any time season with a weakest link like that.
There is a team called Chivas USA? Why would the locals support a team that doesn't even have their city/state in the name? Maybe the Rangers and Knicks should change their names to Cablevision.

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03-03-2013, 09:52 PM
  #496
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Yeah, 300 million people and hardly any of them care about hockey.

I don't doubt that OCCASIONALLY a million people watch hockey in a day. But it's definitely not a normal occurrence.
and even less care about soccer, at least on the professional level, and I would say there are more than 1million viewers on most nights.

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03-03-2013, 09:54 PM
  #497
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There is a team called Chivas USA? Why would the locals support a team that doesn't even have their city/state in the name? Maybe the Rangers and Knicks should change their names to Cablevision.
Chivas is a massively popular Mexican club. Chivas USA is owned by the owners of Chivas (official name C.D.Guadalajara), and is marketed to the Hispanics of LA as 'their club' instead of the LA Galaxy. But they have been horrendous, while the Galaxy have won championships, so it hasn't worked at all.

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03-03-2013, 09:57 PM
  #498
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There is a team called Chivas USA? Why would the locals support a team that doesn't even have their city/state in the name? Maybe the Rangers and Knicks should change their names to Cablevision.
They don't, and the team doesn't want them to...that's the thing.

To quote from the Soccer board...

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They market exclusively to the Spanish speaking population of SoCal...but nobody is going to travel for their games (meaning their spectrum of influence is about a 10 square mile area of Southern LA) and their alignment with C.D. Guadalajara (same owner, same look, same everything except for Chivas gets far less attention) basically means fans of any other Mexican team hates them to begin with.

The thought was that they could capture the large Spanish-speaking SoCal audience and make the league relevant to them...but instead they're just a joke of a franchise with no fan base because most Spanish-speaking soccer fans here aren't willing to change their allegiances. The idea could have worked if the team was going to be completely independent...but by aligning it with a single Mexican team so thoroughly they really limited their potential.
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Yeah, it's like if there was a community of NHL Atlantic Division fans in Mexico and someone started up a hockey team down there called Penguins MEXICO. The Penguins fans wouldn't care, and the fans of the rest of the division would probably support other teams just out of spite.
Chivas is an embarrassment and as long as a team like that is allowed to exist it's hard to take the MLS that seriously. I love the MLS and I do think the league can be a top 10 global league in a decade, but it's not that now and it's nowhere near the NHL in terms of popularity.

As MountainHawk said it hasn't helped that Chivas has spent the bulk of their history being a joke, while the Galaxy have been winning titles...but the 'we don't want English speaking fans' while aligning with one Mexican team (thus alienating the majority of their target fan base to begin with) is the main issue. Had Chivas been an independent franchise intending to appeal to LA's Spanish-speaking population they could have succeeded.

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03-03-2013, 09:58 PM
  #499
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and even less care about soccer, at least on the professional level, and I would say there are more than 1million viewers on most nights.
Not a chance. I bet there's at least 5 times as many professional soccer fans in this country as hockey fans.

The EPL rights just went for 80 million, almost as much as the NHL rights go for. And that's just ONE LEAGUE, for a terrible timeslot.

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03-03-2013, 10:04 PM
  #500
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It's even worse... they're not marketed to hispanics per se, they're marketed only to Mexicans. And specifically, to Mexicans who are fans of Chivas de Guadelajara. Meaning anyone who is not already a fan of Chivas de Guadelajara will not care about them. And most Guadelajara fans also will not care about them because they're regarded as a minor league version of the Mexican team.

Seems like a spectacularly bad concept in 2013, but when they first came into the league in 2005 MLS desperately needed investors and probably wasn't too picky, even though the concept was dubious.

Edit: I just repeated what Big McLargehuge said. Let me play devil's advocate then and point out that the original concept was for Chivas USA (the name was stupid right from the beginning) to dominate inferior MLS with superior yet second-rate Mexican players, and thus win over the massive Chivas de Guadelajara fanbase in LA. Of course that went badly right from the beginning because the level of play in MLS wasn't as bad as the Mexican owners' thought it was, so the team sucked right out of the gate.

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