The Business of HockeyDiscuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Franchise sales, valuations, TV contracts, ratings, expansion, relocation, the CBA and work stoppage discussion goes here.
So EPL broadcast rights are half as much as the rights in the US as the NHL despite playing on the other side of the globe and thus no where near prime time? That's crazy. I guess it's a bargain too compared to what NBC paid for the NHL since a) they're playing and b) it's ascending. ****, EPL and MLS are going to pass the NHL within the decade.
Well, to be exact it's 83 million is 41.5% of the national NHL deal. But the big difference is that this deal is for ALL the games. The NHL has it's local TV deals as well.
Then say it better! I happen to AGREE that the NHL has done a crappy job at growing the game. They've expanded into new markets but done next to nothing to grow the game at a grass-roots level in those new markets. They've been terrible at marketing themselves nationally. No argument there.
Well we agree. They put teams on an island not local support and we get what we deserve.
Well we agree. They put teams on an island not local support and we get what we deserve.
There OUGHT to be a league fund dedicated to grass-roots development of the sport.....I get the distinct impression that it's next to impossible to get the BOG to agree on such a move.
There OUGHT to be a league fund dedicated to grass-roots development of the sport.....I get the distinct impression that it's next to impossible to get the BOG to agree on such a move.
What give away the hard bargained cash they'll be getting from the players to grow the game? I would be on the owners side in an instant if that is what they did with the rev sharing. I know they give a relatively speaking pittance to U S hockey and probably less to the CHL but lets talk 200 million per year.
What give away the hard bargained cash they'll be getting from the players to grow the game? I would be on the owners side in an instant if that is what they did with the rev sharing. I know they give a relatively speaking pittance to U S hockey and probably less to the CHL but lets talk 200 million per year.
Hell, every major sports league in the US devotes funds to promote the game on a grass-roots level. Have you seen the commercials for the NFLs "Play 60" campaign? That's EXACTLY what the NFL is doing: They're reaching out on a local level and creating a whole new generation of fans before those kids have chance to discover other sports. MLB does the same thing. NBA has inner-city outreach programs. Those leagues are actively working to grow their sports.
Well, to be exact it's 83 million is 41.5% of the national NHL deal. But the big difference is that this deal is for ALL the games. The NHL has it's local TV deals as well.
Well I'm confident that the local TV deals of EPL teams crush those of all but a handful or NHL teams.
Its like the German hockey league really, isnt it? In terms of quality of players and cultural significance? Or is the hockey league that exists in the UK a better comparison?
I love soccer myself, but I am about as keen on the MLS as I am the Deutsche Eishockey Liga, that features legendary teams such as the Hamburg Freezers or the Hannover Scorpions.
Its like the German hockey league really, isnt it? In terms of quality of players and cultural significance? Or is the hockey league that exists in the UK a better comparison?
I love soccer myself, but I am about as keen on the MLS as I am the Deutsche Eishockey Liga, that features legendary teams such as the Hamburg Freezers or the Hannover Scorpions.
I think the fanfare is because they're fans. You'd expect them to be hopelessly optimistic in estimating the current quality of MLS (LA XI are Prem quality) and its future revenue growth (any hope of challenging NHL).
The people of BigSoccer do love to salivate on the progress of MLS since 1996, without really taking into account how far other North American sports have come since then or how much the Premier League has moved on since England's sole Champions League team, Blackburn Rovers, flunked out in the first round.
MLS could easily match the NHL TV contract if they get the same ratings as the NHL. Will that happen? I dont know. But with the growth of the Hispanic population in the US, I could see them getting close if not overtaking the NHL in terms of total viewers in the US.
In terms of number of teams, the MLS is still growing. There are still markets looking to get teams. I would say there are more markets looking for MLS franchises than there are markets looking for NHL franchises.
If ratings go up, rights fees go up. As rights fees go up, teams have more money to pay players. As players are paid more, more athletes want to get in the game, and thus the talent pool increases.
As the population of the US changes, I could easily see the MLS being a bigger player in the North American sports landscape, and I could see the quality of the game getting close to the big leagues in Europe. On the other hand, I dont see a ton of positives for the NHL in the US. Its a game that most people in the US cant relate to (ie they dont get exposed to ice), its expensive to play for kids, and its never translated well on TV in the States.
Well I'm confident that the local TV deals of EPL teams crush those of all but a handful or NHL teams.
EPL pulls in somewhere around $5B (3B pounds) a year in all broadcast rights revenue. While a majority of broadcast revenues are equally shared, a meaningful chunk of are distributed on a merit basis - effectively a form of "local" revenue.
It's a stunning amount of money...something like 50-fold increase in the same amount of time Bettman has been NHL commissioner.
Oh, since someone is bound to ask...the players' cut is ~70%.
soccer really?! How long has this myth been circulated? Soccer is so far down the radar on most US sports minds it doesn't even rate a decimal point. Soccer is nothing more than the metric system of the US sporting world.
soccer really?! How long has this myth been circulated? Soccer is so far down the radar on most US sports minds it doesn't even rate a decimal point. Soccer is nothing more than the metric system of the US sporting world.
MLS could see their revenue increase tenfold, and they'd still be smaller than the NHL.
There is still a massive, massive gulf between the NHL and MLS, as much as hockey naysayers and soccer fans might want to otherwise be the case.
Yep. Will MLS continue to thrive and shore up soccer's position as a major sport in the US? Yes. Will it ever eclipse the NHL, other than in certain markets? Nope.
Considering what the NFL-MLB-NBA gets in media rights 100 million is chump-change.
For a league whose latest games are on at 3pm EST and are all in a country that's 5000 miles away on the opposite side of an ocean. Considering that the only place you could see soccer in English in the US was a PBS show that featured out of date German highlights, it's pretty amazing money.
It must be really awkward for you to live in a city where the local soccer team averages over 30,000 people a game.
And they've been trying to sell soccer over here for the past 40 years. Newsflash: It hasn't worked. There isn't any widespread interest in watching soccer in the US.
Who are "they"? Has it ever occurred to you that, instead of there being a conspiracy within the American sports media to force soccer on you, people have just become gradually more interested in it over the past 40 years?
And the NHL would kill to get the kind of ratings a lot of soccer games (especially Mexican soccer games) get. Rebroadcasts of English games on network TV get ratings similar to live NHL games in the same timeslot.
soccer really?! How long has this myth been circulated? Soccer is so far down the radar on most US sports minds it doesn't even rate a decimal point. Soccer is nothing more than the metric system of the US sporting world.
On the contrary, all the evidence suggests that soccer is growing at an incredible rate. The number of kids sticking with the sport is now huge, with it having surpassed baseball in terms of high school players. The ratings are exploding, especially when things like disparate leagues and weird time zones are factored in. Studies have shown that it's the second most popular spectator sports for males under 20.
The "FAST KICKING, LOW SCORING AND TIES? YOU BET!" attitude toward soccer is rapidly dying (and, fwiw, is how people in about half the country view hockey, too).
MLS is still miles behind NHL in revenue and viewership. But MLS are trending upward while the NHL is trending downward again.
The big things that have helped MLS is Beckham publicity and franchise growth. I'm sure MLS is kicking themselves for not going into markets like Portland,Seattle, and Vancouver sooner.
However there's still a few dark clouds on the horizon for MLS. For as much MLS fans rave over the overused and flawed stat of MLS having higher attended venues than NHL or NBA. Most of it is due to a few markets carrying the rest.
In the western markets, MLS fanbase and attendance is superb. But go to some eastern markets and Texas and you still see a lot of half empty houses. You can't keep expanding and hoping your new franchises will catch fire like the northwest teams did. You're going to have to eventually build your brand with established franchises.
Beckham is leaving MLS. So the mystique that causes 1 million hits on youtube every time he scores a goal will go with him. You can question his playing abilities all you want. But you can never question how iconic of an individual he still is. While MLS is in way better shape now than before he came. His leaving is going to hurt a little. I don't think it will be anywhere near as disastrous as when Pele and Beckenbauer retired from Cosmos/NASL. MLS business model is far superior to the mickey mouse league NASL was.
I look for MLS to stagnate a bit until their league reaches maturity and generational fans become part of the equation. Until then i don't see their growth surpassing NHL. If anything it will be more of the NHL falling faster than MLS growing.
But MLS are trending upward while the NHL is trending downward again.
NHL's ratings, attendance, merchandise sales, ticket sales, and just about everything else have been going up until the lockout, so not getting this point. The NHL is not trending downward, unless you're trying to say that the work stoppage will cause longterm harm to the brand, which, from the last lockout, I doubt will really be the case.
Let's be honest.... here's the ranking of team sports in the U.S.....
1) NFL
2) MLB
3) NBA
4) NHL
these spaces are intentional
5) MLS
And that's about to scale. MLS has a helluva lot of climbing and the NHL has a long way to fall before the two get on the same level.
First of all, you're comparing "value" of a franchise with revenue. The NHL brought in $3.3 billion in revenue last year. The measures that Forbes puts together are estimates for some type of value that a team has, i.e. about what you'd expect to see a team fetch on the open market.
Second, Forbes' methodology in calculating that is extremely untrustworthy, as evident by the simple fact that the Maple Leafs' value increased 100% in a single year, from a half a billion to a billion. Now, either they've long been undervaluing the Leafs or they overreacting now and significantly overvaluing the team, neither of which paints a good picture for how they come to their numbers.
Forbes is, at best, an interesting thing to look at just from a comparison standpoint. Like this little graph I made last year from Forbes' 2011 figures to help highlight the gulfs between the leagues:
Might even be a good ballpark. Not much more beyond that.
