HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > International Tournaments
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Why just 12 teams are playing at Sochi?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-08-2014, 05:09 PM
  #1
Eazy T
Registered User
 
Eazy T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,796
vCash: 500
Why just 12 teams are playing at Sochi?

Why couldn't the tournament organizers have 16 teams instead?

If they had 16 teams, they could've had teams like Germany, Belarus, France and Denmark in the tournament but instead they only have 12 teams.

With the current setup, 12 teams are placed in 3 groups and the 8 statistically best teams go to the quarterfinals but with 16 teams, it would've been straightforward. They could have the top 2 teams in each of the four groups to qualify but no....it has to be more complicated than that.

It would've been more fun to have more teams also.

I say they should've had 16 teams instead of 12.

Any thoughts?

Eazy T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 05:14 PM
  #2
Trap Jesus
Registered User
 
Trap Jesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 9,702
vCash: 500
I think you'll see some 7+ goal blowouts this tournament even with 12 teams. While you'd like to see 16 teams (I would as well, TBH), I think a lot would also probably like to see 8 teams so that all games are more competitive. 12 is probably a good medium.

Trap Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 05:15 PM
  #3
OttawaRoughRiderFan
Make It 30!!!!
 
OttawaRoughRiderFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Niagara
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,467
vCash: 500
Because, if you add more teams, you end up with the World Championship and we all know how boring that can be. Plus, the NHL wants this done in 2 weeks - and, if you add teams, that becomes more and more difficult.

OttawaRoughRiderFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 05:55 PM
  #4
WarriorofTime
Registered User
 
WarriorofTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
Because, if you add more teams, you end up with the World Championship and we all know how boring that can be. Plus, the NHL wants this done in 2 weeks - and, if you add teams, that becomes more and more difficult.
You do know that the Tournament is structured around an event called The Winter Olympics, right?

Only thing that would need to change is maybe they start the Group Stage on February 8th and not wait until February 13th.

For the record, I don't see a point in adding more times. The teams are already very lopsided.

WarriorofTime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 06:04 PM
  #5
Shrimper
Trick or ruddy treat
 
Shrimper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Essex
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 70,043
vCash: 500
12 teams is about right. At that point you have one or two teams that struggle and battle it out to avoid relegation and then 4/5 who have ambitions of a medal and possibility of a gold. The other 5 or so tend to be middle placing teams.

If you expanded it to 16 then you'd probably need a third arena and also see large blowout scores.

Shrimper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 06:23 PM
  #6
Eazy T
Registered User
 
Eazy T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,796
vCash: 500
If it were me, I would schedule the tournament like this.

Group A
1. Sweden
2. USA
3. Finland
4. Slovakia
5. Germany
6. Denmark
7. Norway
8. Belarus

Group B
1. Canada
2. Russia
3. Czech Republic
4. Switzerland
5. France
6. Austria
7. Slovenia
8. Kazakstan

Basically, every team plays 7 games in the group stage and then the top 4 in each group qualify for quarterfinals and knock each other from there on to the gold meal.

Eazy T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 06:41 PM
  #7
jekoh
Registered User
 
jekoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
You do know that the Tournament is structured around an event called The Winter Olympics, right?

Only thing that would need to change is maybe they start the Group Stage on February 8th and not wait until February 13th.
You wouldn't even need to do that, as teams would still play the exact same number of games.

jekoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 06:50 PM
  #8
Uncle Rotter
Registered User
 
Uncle Rotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Kelowna, B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,174
vCash: 500
The IOC doesn't want more than 12

Uncle Rotter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 07:01 PM
  #9
TollefsenFan
Registered User
 
TollefsenFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: K-town
Country: Norway
Posts: 2,114
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eazy T View Post
Why couldn't the tournament organizers have 16 teams instead?

If they had 16 teams, they could've had teams like Germany, Belarus, France and Denmark in the tournament but instead they only have 12 teams.

With the current setup, 12 teams are placed in 3 groups and the 8 statistically best teams go to the quarterfinals but with 16 teams, it would've been straightforward. They could have the top 2 teams in each of the four groups to qualify but no....it has to be more complicated than that.

It would've been more fun to have more teams also.

I say they should've had 16 teams instead of 12.

Any thoughts?
The gemans couldnt beat austria on home ice and u want to ad them to the olympica. And what about Denmark and Belarus... Both failed vs Slovenia of all countries. Those countries u mentioned didnt deserve to qualify. Thats the Cold hard FACTS. And dnt even start yapping about their NHLrs. Slovenia got players from 2nd tier Leagues all over europe + some from DEL. They got like one team back home and very few players to choose from. Austia got more Depth, but nothing compared to the germans and DEL. The german players are lazy. Loosing 12-4 to Norway is all the proof u need. Fire the Coach, rebuild, do something about Club economy in DEL and start developing elite players again. When the germans has done all that, then they will be like Switzerland. Now its only a mess.

12 teams are just fine.

TollefsenFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 07:05 PM
  #10
robwangjing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Beijing
Country: China
Posts: 206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eazy T View Post
Group A
1. Sweden
2. USA
3. Finland
4. Slovakia
5. Germany
6. Denmark
7. Norway
8. Belarus


Group B
1. Canada
2. Russia
3. Czech Republic
4. Switzerland
5. France
6. Austria
7. Slovenia
8. Kazakstan
Maybe you just did two random groups, but team 4-8 in group A should(and most likely would) beat the other 4-8 teams in Group B easily. Number four, Switzerland vs. Slovakia could be interesting, but Slovakia should beat the Swiss. Even Finland I would say should beat the Czechs. The top two teams in both groups though looks fairly matched, but overall the A group is so much stronger than the B group.

I could actually see the worst team in Group A(Belarus) win pretty easy against Kazakstan, Slovenia, Austria and France. While in their own group they would most likely not win at all, but could play overtime against some other of the weaker teams.

robwangjing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 07:07 PM
  #11
eggy2486
Hitman #6
 
eggy2486's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Eastern CT
Country: Canada
Posts: 350
vCash: 500
12 teams is plenty - you have the 7 super powers who are good every year, then you have the minnows, right now switzerland is proving to be stable, and other countries are doing better, but they still can't consistently beat the top 7, so the IOC is trying to maintain interest in the sport by limiting the number of blowout games

eggy2486 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 07:08 PM
  #12
southpaw24
Registered User
 
southpaw24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Owen Sound, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,428
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eazy T View Post
If it were me, I would schedule the tournament like this.

Group A
1. Sweden
2. USA
3. Finland
4. Slovakia
5. Germany
6. Denmark
7. Norway
8. Belarus

Group B
1. Canada
2. Russia
3. Czech Republic
4. Switzerland
5. France
6. Austria
7. Slovenia
8. Kazakstan

Basically, every team plays 7 games in the group stage and then the top 4 in each group qualify for quarterfinals and knock each other from there on to the gold meal.
That would be too many games in too short of a period. Getting into the gold medal game would mean playing 9 games in 18 days and 10 if you got into the gold medal game. Theres no pro league that has a schedule that bad.

southpaw24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 07:12 PM
  #13
Jussi
Dat Times Square
 
Jussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 44,398
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Rotter View Post
The IOC doesn't want more than 12
Olympic tournament has "always" had 12 teams, that way the schedule won't become too packed. There's also the women's tournament going on at the same time, not enough arenas.

Jussi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 07:13 PM
  #14
Kranix
Registered User
 
Kranix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,458
vCash: 471
Because Marco Sturm was a generational talent in Germany.

Kranix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 07:35 PM
  #15
Primrose Everdeen
Libérée, Délivrée
 
Primrose Everdeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Country: France
Posts: 62,687
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightDuck View Post
Because Marco Sturm was a generational talent in Germany.
Likewise with Anže Kopitar and Slovenia.

__________________
Le froid est pour moi le prix de la liberté.
Primrose Everdeen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 07:37 PM
  #16
connor macdavid
In the press box
 
connor macdavid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Erie for now
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,163
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eazy T View Post
If it were me, I would schedule the tournament like this.

Group A
1. Sweden
2. USA
3. Finland
4. Slovakia
5. Germany
6. Denmark
7. Norway
8. Belarus

Group B
1. Canada
2. Russia
3. Czech Republic
4. Switzerland
5. France
6. Austria
7. Slovenia
8. Kazakstan

Basically, every team plays 7 games in the group stage and then the top 4 in each group qualify for quarterfinals and knock each other from there on to the gold meal.
Why? So teams like Canada, US, Sweden, etc. could blow out four teams instead of two?

So teams like Slovenia & Austria get the opportunity to get internationally destroyed 3+ times instead of once or twice?

The olympics is all about fair competition- by potentially putting teams ranked outside the Top sixteen, it's not fair (it's not fair as is with the bottom 2-3 teams)!

connor macdavid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 07:49 PM
  #17
CoolForumNamePending
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,055
vCash: 500
I really wouldn't care if they expanded it to 16 (arenas/ice time might become an issue) but I think for the time being 12 is a good number. If you expand it to much you could end up where in the early stages there are more blowouts than competitive matches. I think some other sports are too inclusive when it comes to their most prestigious tournaments (the final stage, qualifying can never be too inclusive) and it ends up looking as if everyone involved is trying to pretend the sport has more depth and/or is more global & popular than it actually is.

It would be nice if something could be worked out when it comes to player availability for the qualifiers though. If you really wanted to you could argue that the Olympics still isn't a 'best-vs-best' tournament due to players not being available during the qualifying process.


Last edited by CoolForumNamePending: 01-08-2014 at 07:57 PM.
CoolForumNamePending is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 08:18 PM
  #18
DarzipanMildo
Registered User
 
DarzipanMildo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Salzburg
Country: Austria
Posts: 787
vCash: 500
I think 16 is fine. Is the inclusion of Germany, Denmark, Belarus + 1 really going to drag down the quality of the tournament that much?

DarzipanMildo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 08:21 PM
  #19
jumptheshark
the burn out
 
jumptheshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: hf retirement home
Country: United Nations
Posts: 53,605
vCash: 2735
comes down to time-- by adding 4 teams you add up to 8 days more hockey coverage-- while as hockey fans we would love it- the olympics is more then about hockey

jumptheshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 08:44 PM
  #20
CoolForumNamePending
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bozwell View Post
comes down to time-- by adding 4 teams you add up to 8 days more hockey coverage-- while as hockey fans we would love it- the olympics is more then about hockey
You could do 4 groups x 4 teams... Top two teams in each group advance to QFs.

Day 1: Groups A & B
Day 2: Groups C & D
Day 3: Groups A & B
Day 4 - 6: etc
Day 7: QF1 & QF2 or Off Day
Day 8: QF3 & QF4 or QF1 - QF4
Day 9: Off Day
Day 10: SF1 & SF2
Day 11: Bronze Medal Game
Day 12: Gold Medal Game

Now you also have to find room for the women's tournament so the two venues are going to have up to three games a day each... There would also have to be ice available for all 24 teams (16 men + 8 women) to practice... So yeah, I guess scheduling could be tricky.

CoolForumNamePending is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 09:14 PM
  #21
Oxim Oresi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 182
vCash: 500
They had so many teams in the tournament that they ran out of good names for the different rounds. There was a "preliminary qualification" with the winner advancing to the "pre-qualification".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_hoc..._qualification

Oxim Oresi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 10:07 PM
  #22
tony d
Ours for next 7 yrs.
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 35,724
vCash: 500
I think they want to keep it as competitive as possible. As it is the Norways, Austrias and Slovenias are going to be in pretty tough in their groups.

__________________
tony d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 11:08 PM
  #23
zamo86
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maribor
Country: Slovenia
Posts: 898
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by robwangjing View Post
Maybe you just did two random groups, but team 4-8 in group A should(and most likely would) -SVK, GER, DEN, NOR, BLR - beat the other 4-8 teams in Group B easily - SWI, FRA, AUT, SLO, KAZ -. Number four, Switzerland vs. Slovakia could be interesting, but Slovakia should beat the Swiss. Even Finland I would say should beat the Czechs. The top two teams in both groups though looks fairly matched, but overall the A group is so much stronger than the B group.

I could actually see the worst team in Group A(Belarus) win pretty easy against Kazakstan, Slovenia, Austria and France. While in their own group they would most likely not win at all, but could play overtime against some other of the weaker teams.
Common dude.. its not like Slovenia didnt qualify to the Olympics beating both Belarus and Denamrk (in Denmark). Austria qualified through Germany (in Germany).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_hoc..._qualification

zamo86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2014, 11:21 PM
  #24
v-man
Registered User
 
v-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,895
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eazy T View Post
If it were me, I would schedule the tournament like this.

Group A
1. Sweden
2. USA
3. Finland
4. Slovakia
5. Germany
6. Denmark
7. Norway
8. Belarus

Group B
1. Canada
2. Russia
3. Czech Republic
4. Switzerland
5. France
6. Austria
7. Slovenia
8. Kazakstan

Basically, every team plays 7 games in the group stage and then the top 4 in each group qualify for quarterfinals and knock each other from there on to the gold meal.
There's simply not enough time during the Olympics to fit in a 7 game round robin plus the medal rounds. Leagues already play with constricted schedules simply to fit the Olympic break in. This would only tire out the world's top players more midway through their seasons. That doesn't bode well for getting future NHL participation. The owners would never allow it.

Also, I don't think the Latvians would appreciate being left out.

v-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2014, 01:24 AM
  #25
Den
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Stockholm
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 5,964
vCash: 500
If we have Austria, norway and Slovenia, I don't see why we should not have Belarus, Kazahstan, Denmark and Germany. 16 would be OK IMHO.

The opposite thing to do would be to have a prelim for teams below 6th ranking to occupy position 4 in each group, and then do best out of 3 starting from semi-finals. That's unrealistic but would be cool to see.

Den is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:51 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.